REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 46, Issue 39

Dwight hummer31 at netzero.net
Sat Mar 15 00:09:11 CDT 2008


Alternate engines

As far as alternate engines, I am looking at the LS2 engine from Vesta.  The 
weight of this engine will all the trimmings is about 500 lbs.  This is 
equivalent to the lycoming 540 engine of the same horsepower (350 hp peak). 
See Lycoming data sheet 
(http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engines/series/pdfs/540ci%20Engine%20Insert.pdf). 
The advantages of liquid cooling and modern EFI systems are just too much to 
passup.  You can get a brand new engine system for much less than the cost 
of comparable used lycoming type engine.  The LS2 class engine is a far more 
refined engine which is mass produced by the millions (lots of parts 
available).  It should also be much quieter than the air-cooled engines 
which is another big plus for me.  I will let you know how it works out.

Dwight
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:31 PM
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 46, Issue 39


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1.  verbose wordage (gattenby at tulsaconnect.com)
>   2.  Weight and Balance (Brett Ferrell)
>   3.   Alternative engines (Tom)
>   4. Re:  Weight and Balance (Scott Baker)
>   5. Re:  Alternative engines (Al Gietzen)
>   6. Re:  Recommended Tools for Building a Composite Aircraft
>      (Steve Goldman)
>   7. Re:  IO-390 engines? (Richard J. Gentil)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:26:45 -0500
> From: <gattenby at tulsaconnect.com>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: verbose wordage
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <web-93720663 at cgpro2.tulsaconnect.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1";format="flowed"
>
>
>
> Tom,
> As you can tell by now Andy is the one thats "good with
> words".
> He's even been published, (if you count airplain mags as
> published)
>
> Sorry Andy, I couldn't resist taking a potshot at you...
>
> On the serious side, check out some the articals that he's
> written,
> he keeps them on his web site.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:30:02 -0400
>  "Andy Millin" <amillin at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Hey Tom,
>>
>> Welcome to the game.
>>
>> What you'll need to build your Velocity...  Please read
>>with a smile.
>>
>> Determination (50 gallon drum with dispensing pump)
>> Tenacity (Stainless steel, billet machined, high
>>compression, max
>> performance, industrial strength).  You can't live the
>>life you were living
>> and finish the airplane
>> Joy of building. (all you can lay your hands on, get it
>>wherever you
>> can)  There is too much to be done if you aren't
>>enjoying it.  This is
>> supposed to be fun damn it!
>> Clever intellect.  The manual will tell you how it
>>should go
>> together.  It WILL NOT tell you how you're going to flip
>>a wing by yourself.
>> Hee hee.
>> Faith (anodized, variety of lengths and sizes)  The
>>manual will tell
>> you to "cut a hole" and you will scratch your head and
>>wonder "is this the
>> right spot?" ... faith
>> Spousal support (minimum 25 cubic yards)  If Momma
>>ain't happy,
>> ain't nobody happy ... really.
>> Epoxy and cloth (more than came with your kit)
>>
>> I think that makes up the Minimum Equipment List.
>>
>> As for tools, each builder finds his own favorites.  The
>>glass is not hard
>> to work with.  I think you will find you will spend more
>>time figuring out
>> what you need to cut and where, than it takes to cut it;
>>no matter what tool
>> you are using.
>>
>> I bought the full build kit and my airframe is pretty
>>much done.  I never
>> bought an air compressor and don't feel like I was
>>intentionally burdening
>> myself.  Really, looking back at the bigger challenges,
>>I can't say "I
>> really wish I could have cut that piece faster."
>> Everyone's mileage will
>> vary.  I'm sure there are builders that are rolling
>>their eyes and thinking
>> I am a nut job; which I probably am.
>>
>> I like the Permagrit stuff.  It stays sharp.  I think it
>>is a great value.
>>
>> Get a good shop vac with a "dry wall" type dust filter.
>> I bought a high hp,
>> small form factor.  It allows me to take it into the
>>plane when I want.
>>
>> I never bought an epoxy pump.  I use a gram scale.  I
>>keep the resin in the
>> warmer and keep the hardener on the table and out of the
>>light.
>>
>> I have quite a few of the items that Alex listed.  The
>>stainless ruler will
>> come in very handy.  I use it all the time.
>>
>> The digital level is nice, but your kit was not
>>manufactured to those
>> tolerances.  As you build, you will level the fuselage
>>several times.  To do
>> so, you will have to decide where you will take the
>>measurement and measure
>> from that spot every time.  If you just put the level
>>somewhere in the same
>> vicinity, you'll get a new reading.  I can only
>>recommend consistency and a
>> strong desire on your part to be precise.  Don't be
>>perfect, you want to
>> finish this thing.  :)
>>
>> When you use a tool with an electric motor, i.e. Dremel,
>>Drill, Saber Saw,
>> etc.  Use the shop vac to clean the dust out of it.  Get
>>it running and hold
>> the shop vac to the cooling openings.  It will suck the
>>dust out of the
>> motor and it will last much longer.  If you leave the
>>dust in...
>>
>> A big cloth cutting table is nice, if you have the room
>>for it.  I too
>> bought the pizza cutter for the cloth.  It cut the cloth
>>nicely.   It also
>> had a tendency to cut into the table.  Over time the
>>cloth started snagging
>> on the table.  I went back to scissors.  Your mileage
>>will vary.
>>
>> I don't know if you could have too many tools.  If you
>>have it, it could be
>> just the thing.  I bought my tools as I needed them.  At
>>least I know I used
>> it once.  ;)
>>
>> I wasn't kidding with the first list.  If you have those
>>things, you are
>> well on your way.
>>
>> Best of luck with your project!
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
>>[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tom Tolton
>> Sent: 03-13-2008 8:27
>> To: reflector at tvbf.org
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Recommended Tools for Building a
>>Composite Aircraft
>>
>> I am new to this kit building game.  I purchased a two
>>car garage with an
>> attached house. It is now heated, insulated, and has
>>good two-part epoxy
>> paint on the floor.  My question is this:  What tools
>>would you seasoned
>> builders recommend for building a XLFG Velocity?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1327 -
>>Release Date: 3/12/2008
>> 1:27 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
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>> Check old archives:
>>http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:33:09 -0400
> From: Brett Ferrell <reflector at velocityxl.com>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Weight and Balance
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <47DAFD25.2080303 at velocityxl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I would really like to get some example of weight and balances for other
> XL's that have fixed pitch props (I've got a parallel valve 540 with a
> Catto).  I've done my W&B, and although the total weight seems
> reasonable, I'm coming out very nose heavy, and my test pilot (Dave
> Bertram) says his RG can fly with 4-200lbs guys in it (and he flys with
> 40 lbs of ballast in the nose solo)....  My nose weight is over 100 lbs
> when empty, and my empty arm is in the the flight box, and apparently
> the empty arm should be well aft of the flight envelope.
>
> Brett
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:56:03 -0400
> From: Tom <tomcat05 at comcast.net>
> Subject: REFLECTOR:  Alternative engines
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Message-ID: <47DB0283.9000604 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> The biggest issue I see with the LT1 usage is in dealing with the extra
> weight. Conservatively, the engine is about 100 lbs over an IO540 plus
> about another 60 lbs for coolant and heat exchanger plus 80lbs for gear
> reduction and about another 25lbs in a beefier engine mount. Also have
> to deal with a longer arm due to the prop and gear reduction being
> further back. Is a whole bunch of ballast needed in the nose to 
> compensate??
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:33:04 -0400
> From: "Scott Baker" <sbakr at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Weight and Balance
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <000b01c88634$23dc4a40$0301a8c0 at DADDESKTOP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Nose weight, in and of itself, is not an indicator of where the aircraft 
> is
> situated in the CG envelope.
> Nose weight is influenced (for the most part) by the rear wheel axle
> location; the heaviness of the engine; and the heaviness of the equipment 
> in
> the nose section of the aircraft, including the instrument panel.  It is
> possible to have a heavy (or light) nose wheel weight and be comfortably
> inside the recommended CG.
> SB
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brett Ferrell" <reflector at velocityxl.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:33 PM
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Weight and Balance
>
>
>>I would really like to get some example of weight and balances for other
>> XL's that have fixed pitch props (I've got a parallel valve 540 with a
>> Catto).  I've done my W&B, and although the total weight seems
>> reasonable, I'm coming out very nose heavy, and my test pilot (Dave
>> Bertram) says his RG can fly with 4-200lbs guys in it (and he flys with
>> 40 lbs of ballast in the nose solo)....  My nose weight is over 100 lbs
>> when empty, and my empty arm is in the the flight box, and apparently
>> the empty arm should be well aft of the flight envelope.
>>
>> Brett
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:50:33 -0800
> From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Alternative engines
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <000001c8863e$f5048e70$6401a8c0 at BigAl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> The biggest issue I see with the LT1 usage is in dealing with the extra
>
> weight. Conservatively, the engine is about 100 lbs over an IO540 plus
>
> about another 60 lbs for coolant and heat exchanger plus 80lbs for gear
>
> reduction and about another 25lbs in a beefier engine mount. Also have
>
> to deal with a longer arm due to the prop and gear reduction being
>
> further back. Is a whole bunch of ballast needed in the nose to 
> compensate??
>
>
>
> Wha?  Coolant is about 20-25 lbs (my rotary has 21 lbs of coolant in the
> system), aluminum radiator about 8-9 lbs, reduction drive 45lbs, and no
> reason for the mount to be any heavier that one for a IO540.  I don't know
> how much heavier the LY1 is than an IO540, but an aluminum block V6 is
> certainly lighter.
>
>
>
> My all up 265 hp rotary is lighter than a comparable Lyc.
>
>
>
> And while we're on the subject, why does the myth about insurance keep
> coming up.  I had no trouble getting insurance for my airplane; and I know 
> a
> lot of guys with auto conversions - none that I know of had problems 
> getting
> insurance.  Basically, if the underwriters are covering Velocitys, then 
> they
> will cover a Velocity with an auto conversion.
>
>
>
> Al
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:15:18 -0400
> From: Steve Goldman <steve at fatcatair.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Recommended Tools for Building a Composite
> Aircraft
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <47DB3136.4090108 at fatcatair.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Andy Millin wrote:
>
>> The digital level is nice, but your kit was not manufactured to those
>> tolerances.  As you build, you will level the fuselage several times.  To 
>> do
>> so, you will have to decide where you will take the measurement and 
>> measure
>> from that spot every time.  If you just put the level somewhere in the 
>> same
>> vicinity, you'll get a new reading.  I can only recommend consistency and 
>> a
>> strong desire on your part to be precise.  Don't be perfect, you want to
>> finish this thing.  :)
>
> I've got a digital level and it only reads to .1 of a degree which
> seems pretty precise but you can probably read a bubble pretty close
> to that kind of tolerance. I never would have realized that until I
> got the digital level. The nice thing about the level is that it also
> has sound so you can level something without looking. Also it is way
> nicer than those angle finders when you doing things like the winglet
> rake. You don't need one certainly but I rarely met a tool I didn't like.
> ...
>> A big cloth cutting table is nice, if you have the room for it.  I too
>> bought the pizza cutter for the cloth.  It cut the cloth nicely.   It 
>> also
>> had a tendency to cut into the table.  Over time the cloth started 
>> snagging
>> on the table.  I went back to scissors.  Your mileage will vary.
>
> They sell this stuff at fabric stores that is a self healing cutting
> mat for use with the pizza cutters. Not cheap, an 18x24 piece is like
> $20, so you wouldn't want to cover a whole table. I cut it into strips
> and put it on the back of a few straight edges (a 4' and a 2'). You
> can slide it under the cloth easily without disturbing the cloth and
> make perfect cuts and never damage the table. I rarely use scissors.
>
> -- 
> Steve Goldman
> '77 Tiger N28531
> Velocity XL5-RG (T-2810 hrs) N758SG (reserved)
> Pittsboro, NC (9NC8)
> http://fatcatair.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 22:31:08 -0400
> From: "Richard J. Gentil" <richard at naples-air-center.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: IO-390 engines?
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <47DB34EC.7070707 at naples-air-center.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have my own mail server and I do not see any setting that could cause
> it but for some reason it does.
>
> Richard
>
> Brian Michalk wrote:
>> The outgoing reflector mail is labelled "bulk".  Maybe your provider is
>> taking that literally?
>>
>> Richard J. Gentil wrote:
>>
>>> For some reason the reflector is going days without delivering any
>>> email and then all of a sodden I get 30 to 40 at a time so I apologize
>>> for not being able to get back to you sooner.
>>>
>>> The engine looks great, which is all I can tell you since I am close
>>> to running it but not quite to that stage yet. I am in the middle of
>>> the miles of wiring associated with an all electric airplane. I hope
>>> to run the engine in the next couple of months. (I only work on her
>>> one day a week.)
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> Kevin Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Richard,
>>>> How do you like it?
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>> At 04:06 PM 3/11/2008, Richard J. Gentil wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kevin,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a Mattituck TMX-390.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin Baker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> I was wondering if anyone was using the IO-390 type engines.
>>>>>> I know there are a variety of folks selling them from Barrett,
>>>>>> Performance, to Lycombing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Kevin Baker
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>>> Check old archives: 
>>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> To change your email address, visit
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>>> Check old archives: 
>>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> To change your email address, visit 
>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>>
>>>> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
>>>> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
>>>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>>>> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> To change your email address, visit 
>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit 
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
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>>
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> *****************************************
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> 



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