REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
Brett Ferrell
reflector at velocityxl.com
Thu Jul 10 07:48:34 CDT 2008
Ronnie,
That's actually not correct, the current (at least fixed-gear) XL manual says to drill just below the spar.
http://www.velocityaircraft.com/manuals/10_XLF.pdf
Brett
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Ron Brown <romott at mi-connection.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> Sent: 10 Jul '08 07:13
>
> The manual calls for going through the middle part of the web - for both the
> XL and Std (mine is a 173 RG).
>
> As I mentioned, I relocated mine to the lower part of the web. The web is
> rather thin - only one or perhaps two plies of BID.
>
> Ronnie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Hallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:50 AM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>
>
> > Ronnie,
> >
> > You drilled through the spar web for a hole to run the aileron cables
> > through? I'm sure the cables in my XL run entirely below the spar.
> >
> > Keith Hallsten
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> > Behalf Of Ron Brown
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:03 AM
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> >
> > No, the cable comes out just above the lower spar cap. If you get too
> > low,
> > you'll have problems making the transition back to the keel bracket.
> >
> > Ronnie
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <cgputney at peoplepc.com>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> >
> >
> >> Thanks Ron! I appreciate the info. Apparently, the cables penetrate
> >> the
> >> firewall below the lower spar cap?
> >> Gordon
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at mi-connection.com>
> >> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 7:37 AM
> >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yes, my changes did result in more up than down aileron travel. I don't
> >>> have
> >>> the measurements since I gave the new owner all of my manuals and paper
> >>> notes.
> >>>
> >>> I have attached two pictures that show the aileron in the up and down
> >>> positions. The 1/4" socket extension clamped to the inverted aileron
> >>> cable
> >>> brackets approximate the revised location of the aileron control cables
> >>> when
> >>> attached.
> >>>
> >>> Ronnie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: <cgputney at peoplepc.com>
> >>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:49 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Ron, did your change result in 2.5" down and up? I want to do this
> >>>> change
> >>>> as well and would appreciate some numbers on your actual final
> >>>> measurements.
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Gordon Putney
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at mi-connection.com>
> >>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:13 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Joe,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From my RC modeling days, I learned that to minimize adverse yaw, the
> >>>>> ailerons should go up more than they go down. Although we have Frieze
> >>>>> ailerons (the nose sticks down when the aileron is up), there is still
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> tendency toward adverse yaw. Especially since the attach point for
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> aileron cables at the back of the keel is not 90 degrees.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, to improve the situation, I installed my aileron bell cranks
> >>>>> beside
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> engine with a good bit of bias toward the front. I also lowered the
> >>>>> attach
> >>>>> point for the aileron cable jacket. This helps relieve the "error" at
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> keel as well as move the bellcranks away from the engine (but your
> >>>>> rotary
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> narrower than the Lycoming so not an issue). The aileron bell crank
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> like 90 degrees to the cable when the aileron is down.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's a note that I wrote in 2003 that is repetitive but adds some
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> info:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When I rigged my ailerons, I found it difficult to obtain the equal
> >>>>> 2.5"
> >>>>> up
> >>>>> and 2.5" down that is called for in the manuals - for my 173 Elite RG.
> >>>>> Since the push/pull cables at the rear of the keel do not have a 90
> >>>>> degree
> >>>>> approach angle, the connection of the push/pull cable at the aileron
> >>>>> torque
> >>>>> tube on the wing, results in ailerons that travel down more than they
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> up.
> >>>>> This causes an adverse yaw condition which will lead to wallowing at
> >>>>> low
> >>>>> speeds.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I learned this lesson a long time ago when flying RC models. If you
> >>>>> take
> >>>>> off at just above stall speed, the model would turn the opposite
> >>>>> direction
> >>>>> from that commanded. This is because the aileron that is going down
> >>>>> has
> >>>>> more drag than the one going up. This causes the left wing to slow
> >>>>> down
> >>>>> if
> >>>>> you are commanding a right turn at slow speeds. This is called
> >>>>> adverse
> >>>>> yaw
> >>>>> and is common in older airplanes. To get a coordinated turn, even at
> >>>>> speed,
> >>>>> you need to lead with a lot of rudder before applying aileron
> >>>>> deflection.
> >>>>> Or, you rig the ailerons so that there is more up travel than there is
> >>>>> down
> >>>>> travel, which will reduce this yaw effect.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cessnas and some other planes (including our Velocities) have a Frieze
> >>>>> aileron, which features a lip that hangs down below the wing when the
> >>>>> aileron is deflected upwards. This helps balance the drag from the
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> aileron which is hanging down in the airstream.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Velocities handle fine at higher speeds even with no rudder input.
> >>>>> But
> >>>>> at
> >>>>> lower speeds, if the ailerons are rigged with the 90 degree approach
> >>>>> angle
> >>>>> at the wing, then this results in more down than up aileron travel,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> adverse yaw condition that some folks have called "wallowing" on
> >>>>> final.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A while back, Dave Black pointed out the problem at the keel. One fix
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> build a wide bellcrank at the back of the keel so that the aileron
> >>>>> cables
> >>>>> could be attached at a 90 degree approach angle while in the neutral
> >>>>> (centered) condition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other way is to attach the aileron cable at the wing so that the
> >>>>> approach angle is more than 90 degrees. Mine are attached at about
> >>>>> 120
> >>>>> degrees, which results in more up travel than down travel. My
> >>>>> Velocity
> >>>>> handles fine at low speeds, with just aileron control, similar to my
> >>>>> Cessna
> >>>>> 172. If I need a sharper turn, I'll kick in more rudder, just like in
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> 172. But normally, no rudder is needed, all the way down to the
> >>>>> runway.
> >>>>> (But I also installed VG's before my first flight, these also improve
> >>>>> low
> >>>>> speed aileron control).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ronnie Brown
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: <jewen at comporium.net>
> >>>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:42 AM
> >>>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I am rigging up my aileron this weekend (173RG.) I recall several
> >>>>>>threads
> >>>>>>on the subject in the past, but can't find my notes. Does anyone mind
> >>>>>>refreshing me on the nuances that the manual does not address.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Joe
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>>>>
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> >>>>> Check old archives:
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> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> >>
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> To change your email address, visit
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> >>
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> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
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> >
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> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
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