REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging

Ron Brown romott at mi-connection.com
Thu Jul 10 07:13:43 CDT 2008 

The manual calls for going through the middle part of the web - for both the 
XL and Std (mine is a 173 RG).

As I mentioned, I relocated mine to the lower part of the web. The web is 
rather thin - only one or perhaps two plies of BID.

Ronnie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Hallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging


> Ronnie,
>
> You drilled through the spar web for a hole to run the aileron cables
> through?  I'm sure the cables in my XL run entirely below the spar.
>
> Keith Hallsten
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Ron Brown
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:03 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>
> No, the cable comes out just above the lower spar cap.  If you get too 
> low,
> you'll have problems making the transition back to the keel bracket.
>
> Ronnie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <cgputney at peoplepc.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:13 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>
>
>> Thanks Ron!   I appreciate the info.   Apparently, the cables penetrate
>> the
>> firewall below the lower spar cap?
>> Gordon
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at mi-connection.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 7:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, my changes did result in more up than down aileron travel. I don't
>>> have
>>> the measurements since I gave the new owner all of my manuals and paper
>>> notes.
>>>
>>> I have attached two pictures that show the aileron in the  up and down
>>> positions.  The 1/4" socket extension clamped to the inverted aileron
>>> cable
>>> brackets approximate the revised location of the aileron control cables
>>> when
>>> attached.
>>>
>>> Ronnie
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: <cgputney at peoplepc.com>
>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ron, did your change result in 2.5" down and up?   I want to do this
>>>> change
>>>> as well and would appreciate some numbers on your actual final
>>>> measurements.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Gordon Putney
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at mi-connection.com>
>>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:13 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> From my RC modeling days, I learned that to minimize adverse yaw, the
>>>>> ailerons should go up more than they go down.  Although we have Frieze
>>>>> ailerons (the nose sticks down when the aileron is up), there is still
>>>>> a
>>>>> tendency toward adverse yaw.  Especially since the attach point for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> aileron cables at the back of the keel is not 90 degrees.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, to improve the situation, I installed my aileron bell cranks 
>>>>> beside
>>>>> the
>>>>> engine with a good bit of bias toward the front.  I also lowered the
>>>>> attach
>>>>> point for the aileron cable jacket.  This helps relieve the "error" at
>>>>> the
>>>>> keel as well as move the bellcranks away from the engine (but your
>>>>> rotary
>>>>> is
>>>>> narrower than the Lycoming so not an issue).  The aileron bell crank 
>>>>> is
>>>>> more
>>>>> like 90 degrees to the cable when the aileron is down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's a note that I wrote in 2003 that is repetitive but adds some
>>>>> more
>>>>> info:
>>>>>
>>>>> When I rigged my ailerons, I found it difficult to obtain the equal
>>>>> 2.5"
>>>>> up
>>>>> and 2.5" down that is called for in the manuals - for my 173 Elite RG.
>>>>> Since the push/pull cables at the rear of the keel do not have a 90
>>>>> degree
>>>>> approach angle, the connection of the push/pull cable at the aileron
>>>>> torque
>>>>> tube on the wing, results in ailerons that travel down more than they
>>>>> do
>>>>> up.
>>>>> This causes an adverse yaw condition which will lead to wallowing at
>>>>> low
>>>>> speeds.
>>>>>
>>>>> I learned this lesson a long time ago when flying RC models.  If you
>>>>> take
>>>>> off at just above stall speed, the model would turn the opposite
>>>>> direction
>>>>> from that commanded.  This is because the aileron that is going down
>>>>> has
>>>>> more drag than the one going up. This causes the left wing to slow 
>>>>> down
>>>>> if
>>>>> you are commanding a right turn at slow speeds.  This is called 
>>>>> adverse
>>>>> yaw
>>>>> and is common in older airplanes.  To get a coordinated turn, even at
>>>>> speed,
>>>>> you need to lead with a lot of rudder before applying aileron
>>>>> deflection.
>>>>> Or, you rig the ailerons so that there is more up travel than there is
>>>>> down
>>>>> travel, which will reduce this yaw effect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cessnas and some other planes (including our Velocities) have a Frieze
>>>>> aileron, which features a lip that hangs down below the wing when the
>>>>> aileron is deflected upwards.  This helps balance the drag from the
>>>>> other
>>>>> aileron which is hanging down in the airstream.
>>>>>
>>>>> Velocities handle fine at higher speeds even with no rudder input. 
>>>>> But
>>>>> at
>>>>> lower speeds, if the ailerons are rigged with the 90 degree approach
>>>>> angle
>>>>> at the wing, then this results in more down than up aileron travel, 
>>>>> and
>>>>> the
>>>>> adverse yaw condition that some folks have called "wallowing" on 
>>>>> final.
>>>>>
>>>>> A while back, Dave Black pointed out the problem at the keel.  One fix
>>>>> is
>>>>> to
>>>>> build a wide bellcrank at the back of the keel so that the aileron
>>>>> cables
>>>>> could be attached at a 90 degree approach angle while in the neutral
>>>>> (centered) condition.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other way is to attach the aileron cable at the wing so that the
>>>>> approach angle is more than 90 degrees.  Mine are attached at about 
>>>>> 120
>>>>> degrees, which results in more up travel than down travel.  My 
>>>>> Velocity
>>>>> handles fine at low speeds, with just aileron control, similar to my
>>>>> Cessna
>>>>> 172.  If I need a sharper turn, I'll kick in more rudder, just like in
>>>>> my
>>>>> 172.  But normally, no rudder is needed, all the way down to the
>>>>> runway.
>>>>> (But I also installed VG's before my first flight, these also improve
>>>>> low
>>>>> speed aileron control).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ronnie Brown
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: <jewen at comporium.net>
>>>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:42 AM
>>>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I am rigging up my aileron this weekend (173RG.)  I recall several
>>>>>>threads
>>>>>>on the subject in the past, but can't find my notes.  Does anyone mind
>>>>>>refreshing me on the nuances that the manual does not address.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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