REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging

Wed Jul 9 23:50:21 CDT 2008

Ronnie,

You drilled through the spar web for a hole to run the aileron cables
through?  I'm sure the cables in my XL run entirely below the spar.

Keith Hallsten

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Brown
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 11:03 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging

No, the cable comes out just above the lower spar cap.  If you get too low, 
you'll have problems making the transition back to the keel bracket.

Ronnie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cgputney at peoplepc.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging

> Thanks Ron!   I appreciate the info.   Apparently, the cables penetrate 
> the
> firewall below the lower spar cap?
> Gordon
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at mi-connection.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>
>
>>
>>
>> Yes, my changes did result in more up than down aileron travel. I don't
>> have
>> the measurements since I gave the new owner all of my manuals and paper
>> notes.
>>
>> I have attached two pictures that show the aileron in the  up and down
>> positions.  The 1/4" socket extension clamped to the inverted aileron
>> cable
>> brackets approximate the revised location of the aileron control cables
>> when
>> attached.
>>
>> Ronnie
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <cgputney at peoplepc.com>
>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 8:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>
>>
>>> Ron, did your change result in 2.5" down and up?   I want to do this
>>> change
>>> as well and would appreciate some numbers on your actual final
>>> measurements.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gordon Putney
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at mi-connection.com>
>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:13 PM
>>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>
>>>> From my RC modeling days, I learned that to minimize adverse yaw, the
>>>> ailerons should go up more than they go down.  Although we have Frieze
>>>> ailerons (the nose sticks down when the aileron is up), there is still 
>>>> a
>>>> tendency toward adverse yaw.  Especially since the attach point for the
>>>> aileron cables at the back of the keel is not 90 degrees.
>>>>
>>>> So, to improve the situation, I installed my aileron bell cranks beside
>>>> the
>>>> engine with a good bit of bias toward the front.  I also lowered the
>>>> attach
>>>> point for the aileron cable jacket.  This helps relieve the "error" at
>>>> the
>>>> keel as well as move the bellcranks away from the engine (but your
>>>> rotary
>>>> is
>>>> narrower than the Lycoming so not an issue).  The aileron bell crank is
>>>> more
>>>> like 90 degrees to the cable when the aileron is down.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a note that I wrote in 2003 that is repetitive but adds some 
>>>> more
>>>> info:
>>>>
>>>> When I rigged my ailerons, I found it difficult to obtain the equal 
>>>> 2.5"
>>>> up
>>>> and 2.5" down that is called for in the manuals - for my 173 Elite RG.
>>>> Since the push/pull cables at the rear of the keel do not have a 90
>>>> degree
>>>> approach angle, the connection of the push/pull cable at the aileron
>>>> torque
>>>> tube on the wing, results in ailerons that travel down more than they 
>>>> do
>>>> up.
>>>> This causes an adverse yaw condition which will lead to wallowing at 
>>>> low
>>>> speeds.
>>>>
>>>> I learned this lesson a long time ago when flying RC models.  If you
>>>> take
>>>> off at just above stall speed, the model would turn the opposite
>>>> direction
>>>> from that commanded.  This is because the aileron that is going down 
>>>> has
>>>> more drag than the one going up. This causes the left wing to slow down
>>>> if
>>>> you are commanding a right turn at slow speeds.  This is called adverse
>>>> yaw
>>>> and is common in older airplanes.  To get a coordinated turn, even at
>>>> speed,
>>>> you need to lead with a lot of rudder before applying aileron
>>>> deflection.
>>>> Or, you rig the ailerons so that there is more up travel than there is
>>>> down
>>>> travel, which will reduce this yaw effect.
>>>>
>>>> Cessnas and some other planes (including our Velocities) have a Frieze
>>>> aileron, which features a lip that hangs down below the wing when the
>>>> aileron is deflected upwards.  This helps balance the drag from the
>>>> other
>>>> aileron which is hanging down in the airstream.
>>>>
>>>> Velocities handle fine at higher speeds even with no rudder input.  But
>>>> at
>>>> lower speeds, if the ailerons are rigged with the 90 degree approach
>>>> angle
>>>> at the wing, then this results in more down than up aileron travel, and
>>>> the
>>>> adverse yaw condition that some folks have called "wallowing" on final.
>>>>
>>>> A while back, Dave Black pointed out the problem at the keel.  One fix
>>>> is
>>>> to
>>>> build a wide bellcrank at the back of the keel so that the aileron
>>>> cables
>>>> could be attached at a 90 degree approach angle while in the neutral
>>>> (centered) condition.
>>>>
>>>> The other way is to attach the aileron cable at the wing so that the
>>>> approach angle is more than 90 degrees.  Mine are attached at about 120
>>>> degrees, which results in more up travel than down travel.  My Velocity
>>>> handles fine at low speeds, with just aileron control, similar to my
>>>> Cessna
>>>> 172.  If I need a sharper turn, I'll kick in more rudder, just like in
>>>> my
>>>> 172.  But normally, no rudder is needed, all the way down to the 
>>>> runway.
>>>> (But I also installed VG's before my first flight, these also improve
>>>> low
>>>> speed aileron control).
>>>>
>>>> Ronnie Brown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: <jewen at comporium.net>
>>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 11:42 AM
>>>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron Rigging
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am rigging up my aileron this weekend (173RG.)  I recall several
>>>>>threads
>>>>>on the subject in the past, but can't find my notes.  Does anyone mind
>>>>>refreshing me on the nuances that the manual does not address.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Joe
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>>
>
>
>
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