REFLECTOR: Velocity video

Thu Jan 31 09:26:16 CST 2008

Larry,

I wrote John off line to make this very point.  What's (better be) happening is the main wing is simply mushing or settling at the slower speeds, which is exactly what is intended, but if the main wings stall and the canard will still fly--wow, its not going to be pretty.

Thanks, 
Chuck Jensen 

Diversified Technologies 
2680 Westcott Blvd 
Knoxville, TN  37931 
Phn:    865-539-9000 x100 
Cell:    865-406-9001 
Fax:     865-539-9001 
cjensen at dts9000.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence J. Epstein, MD
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:02 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

The main wing should NEVER stall before the canard!!

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of John Dibble
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:55 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

My understanding for the standard fuselage is 70 kn at gross weight, or heavy weight up front and 60 kn solo/low fuel.  In practice my stall speed is around 60 kn either solo or 2 up front.  I don't have much experience landing at full load.  I know my pitot is accurate in climb out at 1500-2000 fpm. 
In the flare, the 55 kn refers to the main wing.  The canard still flies at that speed and I don't know how low the stall speed is.  There are two factors that lower the canard stall speed.  First is ground effect which lowers the stall speed.  The second, I believe, is the elevator.  It seems to me that with the elevator in the down (trim up) position, it acts like a flap and reduces the canard stall speed.  The further down the elevator is, the lower the stall speed should be.  I don't know how far down my elevator is in the flare because I haven't been able to look while landing.  I know it is further down at full stop than if I landed at a higher speed. 

John 

lawrence epstein wrote: 

A canard stall speed <55 knots for an SE is much lower than I would expect. I thought that the standard wing/fuselage was expected to mush around 70 and the large wing/standard fuselage ("173") @ 60 knots. AM I confusing knots with MPH? 

Is it possible that this is pitot error at low speed/hight AOA? 

Larry Epstein 
173 FGE

  _____  

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:36:36 -0600 
From: aminetech at bluefrog.com 
To: reflector at tvbf.org 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video 

OK.  I should begin with the pattern as I feel everything adds up when it comes to a good landing.  First of all, keep the pitch trimmed for hands off throughout the final leg.  Speed brakes aren't needed.  If you're high on final, just pull back on the stick and slow down to stall speed.  The initial nose up attitude will make it seem like you're going to fly to the next county, but in several seconds you will be pleasantly surprised to be on the glide slope.  My power off stall is a mush, so I barely notice anything when stalling on final.  However an observer on the ground told me it looked like I was falling out of the sky.  My stall speed is 60 kn and I have found no problems being at 60 kn on short final/round out.  After round out I let it sink down, holding it a ft or less off the ground.  At 55 kn, the mains slowly sink and gently touch down with no pilot input while the canard keeps flying (guess that is a deep stall, but not a problem when you're close to the ground).  Then I nudge the stick forward to get the nose coming down and it is real easy to lower it gently to the ground. 
As far as the canard stalling and the nose slamming the ground, I have had many hard nose landings at higher speeds.  I think the main cause is not having the pitch trimmed for hands off at all times during the landing procedure.  The trim spring greatly limits how much you can move the elevator and makes it difficult to let the canard down easy, making it seem like the canard stalled when in fact you just couldn't pull back as fast or much as necessary.  I will caution when in LEVEL flight, not to trim the pitch for hands off at a speed of less than 80 kn as that could result in a deep stall.  However when in the flare, trimming at slower speeds is OK, since you want the mains to stall first. 
Keep in mind that I fly an SERG.  The XLs may behave differently. John 
cgputney at peoplepc.com wrote: 

 John Dibble, please detail your landing flare procedure for us!    Thanks. 

----- Original Message -----

From: John  <mailto:aminetech at bluefrog.com> Dibble

To: Velocity  <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> Aircraft Owners and Builders list

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

 Steve, It took me almost 400 hours of flying to learn that not only can I land my SERG in a flare, but that it is 5 times easier and 10 times softer landing. 
John 
steve korney wrote: 

Guess that dispelled the myth that you can't land a Velocity in a flair............ Best... Steve 

  _____  

From: johnt at comp-sol.com 
To: reflector at tvbf.org 
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:35:07 -0600 
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Velocity video 

This is one of those 'big smile' videos!

Thanks for sharing.

John

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen [ALVentures at cox.net] 
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 10:54 PM 
To: reflector 
Subject: REFLECTOR: Velocity video

For those who like; I'll share some video made by my son (with my 5 yr old grandson who's nuts about airplanes).  It includes a takeoff, flyby, touch and go, and landing; lasts about 8 minutes, and is 20MB non-streaming, so high speed access will certainly be a plus.

http://photofu.com/darryl/Velocity_Vignette.wmv

Enjoy; 

Al

  _____  

Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". Check it  <http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx> out. 

  _____  

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit  http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
 <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>  
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives:  http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

  _____  

_______________________________________________ 
To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery 
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose 
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail 
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

  _____  

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit  http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
 <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>  
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives:  http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

  _____  

_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit  http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
 <http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector>  
Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives:  http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080131/2365d347/attachment-0001.htm 