REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?

Grigore Rosu grigore.rosu at gmail.com
Wed Jan 30 21:40:28 CST 2008


Many thanks Andy and the others for your answers and advice.  Just for the
record: I called Scott Swing today and asked him about the depth of the gap
when one flanges the bulkheads; he said that in this case it can be anywhere
between 1/16'' and 3/16''; for example, if the bulkheads are already
installed on the lower strake, which is my case, then one can lay 4 (Scott's
number) layers of duct tape on the top strake when building the flange.  I
guess I'll go for a gap of 1/8'' laying several layers of duct tape on the
top strake - whatever it takes to get to a 1/8'' thick layer of duct tape.
I also liked Andy's solution, but I've got a really bad duct tape that I'd
like to get rid of :-)

Grigore

On Jan 30, 2008 6:11 AM, Andy Millin <amillin at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  Grigore,
>
> I was told by Duane Swing that the gap was very important, but not for an
> obvious reason..  When the top strake is put on, the goop can and will be
> smooshed out of the way.  If there is a small gap, then most of the material
> will be smooshed out of the way.  If the strake top is not put on in a
> smooth, even fashion, it may lift up slightly in some spots.  This happens
> also when weights are applied to the strake top to hold it down.
> Duane strongly cautioned me against using weights on to for this
> reason.  The lift has a tendancy to create voids, especially if most of the
> material has been smooshed out.  The large gap is there to help guarantee a
> better seal.
>
> Andy
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Grigore Rosu
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:51 AM
> *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>  *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?
>
>   Finished installing the fuel bulkheads; since it may take a few days
> until I receive from Velocity the Jeffco, fuel gauge and the sight gauge
> that I ordered, I think I'm going to go ahead and also flange the bulkheads.
>
> The manual says that one should keep a distance of 3/16'' between B&B and
> the upper strake (with no flange).  I'm assuming that large gap is useful to
> give the goop some room to find its way on the strake.  Do we need a similar
> gap (which looks huge to me) when we flange the bulkheads?
>
> I noticed that Andy Millin kept the same 3/16'' gap between his flanges
> and the strake, while Rich Guera didn't (as far as I can guess from the
> pictures on his website, he actually did not flange, but rather put the goop
> in two steps: (1) an initial one with the strake taped, and (2) a final
> slimmer one without tape).
>
> Keeping a large distance between the flange and the strake appears to be
> more difficult, because one needs some thick tape ... I'd rather use 4-5
> layers of duct tape on the top strake instead, but I'm affraid that that
> could be too small of a gap?
>
> Grigore
>
> On Jan 28, 2008 10:02 PM, Keith Hallsten <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >  Greg,
> >
> >
> >
> > The Vance Atkinson fuel sight gauges (not "site gauges" or "side gauges"
> > – you can SEE the fuel in them!) are very highly recommended.  I installed
> > them, as well as capacitive sensors, as well as a fuel flow meter for a
> > totalizer.  The electronic gauges are much more amenable to electronic
> > monitoring, but there is no substitute for being able to actually look at
> > the fuel in the tanks if there is any doubt as to the reliability of
> > information from the electronic gauges.  Fuel management is an item that
> > gets may pilots in trouble at some point, and I wanted to minimize my chance
> > for that kind of trouble!
> >
> >
> >
> > I also flanged the top of the bulkheads and baffles when building my
> > strakes, and the "balloon test" confirmed no leaks.  I recommend that
> > approach.  In fact, I was very anal about getting the interior of the
> > strakes very smooth in all the corners so there was the very best chance of
> > long-term sealing with the Jeffco 9700.  I probably spent more effort on
> > that than necessary, but I REALLY didn't want to be dealing with a
> > hard-to-find fuel leak later.
> >
> >
> >
> > Happy building!
> >
> >
> >
> > Keith Hallsten
> >
> > XLFG, Lincoln, CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *Grigore Rosu
> > *Sent:* Monday, January 28, 2008 6:42 PM
> > *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >  *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you, Ken.
> >
> >
> >
> > I guess now I'm a bit confused regarding how and where these fuel site
> > gauges are being installed.  Do you, or anybody else, have a picture
> > available?
> >
> >
> > Are you talking about Atkinson fuel site gauges?  I think that's what
> > Ken mentioned ...
> >
> >
> >
> > Grigore
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2008 8:02 PM, Greg Poole <greg at pooledresources.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Now there's yet another good idea!  I too will now take out the lower
> > skin of the lwr strake.  Tell me if you'd bother with electronic gauges
> > again given your favour to the sight tubes?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Ken!  ……will be in touch shortly to obtain one of your nose-wheel
> > locking devices if you still have available.
> >
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >  greg at pooledresources.com.au
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *KMis178813 at aol.com
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 29 January 2008 12:08
> > *To:* reflector at tvbf.org
> >
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?
> >
> >
> >
> > Grigore
> >
> >    The fuel site gages, that Velocity sells, are very nice. I use them
> > more than the electronic gage. Turning your head to see real fuel is a lot
> > more reassuring than a blip on a screen that says your OK. I like to take
> > the upper skin of the lower strake out where you are installing the gauge.
> > This lets you move the gauge as far down as possible, to see the last of
> > your fuel. It really does not matter how full you are, just how empty!!
> >
> >
> >
> >                Ken
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/28/2008 7:44:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > grigore.rosu at gmail.com writes:
> >
> >  I have already ordered both the Jeffco (3 gal) and the fuel gauge kit
> > from Velocity.  Is there anything else I need before I start working on the
> > fuel tank?  Ken Baker suggested a "side gauge kit" as potentially useful,
> > because it allows you to always turn your head and see how much fuel you
> > have left.  Any idea about that?  Is it worth considering, or it just makes
> > the installation of the fuel tanks more difficult and prone to leaking?
> >
> >
> >
> > Many anticipated thanks,
> >
> > Grigore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2008 5:56 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > 1)       I would recommend the Jeffco for a couple of reasons- first –
> > it is specifically designed to be a fuel sealer and is more resistant to
> > alcohol content than the epoxy (future concerns?)  also-  the opaque grey
> > color makes it a very simple matter to locate any pin holes (they appear
> > black against the light grey epoxy) while you are constructing. You will not
> > want to try to fine them after your tanks are sealed.  Since I have an auto
> > conversion, I built the entire tank using jeffco since I will almost
> > certainly be burning fuel containing methanol at some point.
> >
> > 2)       I tested my tanks using a cheap kid's party balloon- you just
> > install the inflated balloon to the vent of the tank you are testing, and
> > see if it is still inflated a day later. It also keeps some positive
> > pressure on the tank if you need to do a soap bubble leak test.
> >
> > 3)       I would not try to install any of the strake skins without the
> > wings attached- learned this from personal experience- as well as the
> > experience of a couple of other builders- don't use the factory alignment
> > templates either- just hang the wings and keep them there until the strakes
> > are done unless you are ready to apply a lot of filler to make the leading
> > edge of the strake match the leading edge of the wing.
> >
> >
> >  ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *Grigore Rosu
> > *Sent:* Monday, January 28, 2008 12:34 AM
> >
> >
> > *To:* Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> >
> > *Subject:* REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm about to install the bulkheads in my first strake and therefore I'll
> > soon need to worry about the fuel tank.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1) Should I use Jeffco or not?  The manual sounds as if Jeffco is
> > optional ...  If I should use it, where can I get it from?  (I can do a
> > random search on the internet, but perhaps there are some better avenues
> > that you may have encountered so far).
> >
> >
> >
> > 2) Do I need an altimeter to test the fuel tank?  I have none, but the
> > messages I could find in the reflector archive on this subject mention an
> > altimeter.  BTW, can I test each tank in isolation, or they need to be both
> > installed first and checked together?
> >
> >
> >
> > 3) Should I finish the first strake (including installing the upper
> > strake) and then move to the other one, or it is better to also install the
> > lower strake on the other side and its bulkheads, then do both tanks at the
> > same time, and then install both upper strakes at the same time?  Note that
> > I can only install one wing at a time in my garage.  The flow-chart that
> > came with my manual says that the wing can be removed once the lower strake
> > is installed ... I'm a bit reluctant to do so though, because I'm affraid
> > the torsion generated by the spar may be too big without the upper strake.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Grigore
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >   ------------------------------
> >
> > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape<http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489>in the new year.
> >
> >
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> >
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>
>
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