REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?

Wed Jan 30 06:11:36 CST 2008

Grigore,

I was told by Duane Swing that the gap was very important, but not for an
obvious reason..  When the top strake is put on, the goop can and will be
smooshed out of the way.  If there is a small gap, then most of the material
will be smooshed out of the way.  If the strake top is not put on in a
smooth, even fashion, it may lift up slightly in some spots.  This happens
also when weights are applied to the strake top to hold it down.  Duane
strongly cautioned me against using weights on to for this reason.  The lift
has a tendancy to create voids, especially if most of the material has been
smooshed out.  The large gap is there to help guarantee a better seal.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Grigore Rosu
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 12:51 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?

Finished installing the fuel bulkheads; since it may take a few days until I
receive from Velocity the Jeffco, fuel gauge and the sight gauge that I
ordered, I think I'm going to go ahead and also flange the bulkheads.

The manual says that one should keep a distance of 3/16'' between B&B and
the upper strake (with no flange).  I'm assuming that large gap is useful to
give the goop some room to find its way on the strake.  Do we need a similar
gap (which looks huge to me) when we flange the bulkheads?

I noticed that Andy Millin kept the same 3/16'' gap between his flanges and
the strake, while Rich Guera didn't (as far as I can guess from the pictures
on his website, he actually did not flange, but rather put the goop in two
steps: (1) an initial one with the strake taped, and (2) a final slimmer one
without tape).

Keeping a large distance between the flange and the strake appears to be
more difficult, because one needs some thick tape ... I'd rather use 4-5
layers of duct tape on the top strake instead, but I'm affraid that that
could be too small of a gap?

Grigore

On Jan 28, 2008 10:02 PM, Keith Hallsten <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com> wrote:

Greg,

The Vance Atkinson fuel sight gauges (not "site gauges" or "side gauges" -
you can SEE the fuel in them!) are very highly recommended.  I installed
them, as well as capacitive sensors, as well as a fuel flow meter for a
totalizer.  The electronic gauges are much more amenable to electronic
monitoring, but there is no substitute for being able to actually look at
the fuel in the tanks if there is any doubt as to the reliability of
information from the electronic gauges.  Fuel management is an item that
gets may pilots in trouble at some point, and I wanted to minimize my chance
for that kind of trouble!

I also flanged the top of the bulkheads and baffles when building my
strakes, and the "balloon test" confirmed no leaks.  I recommend that
approach.  In fact, I was very anal about getting the interior of the
strakes very smooth in all the corners so there was the very best chance of
long-term sealing with the Jeffco 9700.  I probably spent more effort on
that than necessary, but I REALLY didn't want to be dealing with a
hard-to-find fuel leak later.

Happy building!

Keith Hallsten

XLFG, Lincoln, CA

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Grigore Rosu
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 6:42 PM 

To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?

Thank you, Ken.

I guess now I'm a bit confused regarding how and where these fuel site
gauges are being installed.  Do you, or anybody else, have a picture
available?

Are you talking about Atkinson fuel site gauges?  I think that's what Ken
mentioned ...

Grigore

On Jan 28, 2008 8:02 PM, Greg Poole <greg at pooledresources.com.au> wrote:

Now there's yet another good idea!  I too will now take out the lower skin
of the lwr strake.  Tell me if you'd bother with electronic gauges again
given your favour to the sight tubes?

Thanks Ken!  ..will be in touch shortly to obtain one of your nose-wheel
locking devices if you still have available.

Best,

Greg 

  <mailto:greg at pooledresources.com.au> greg at pooledresources.com.au 

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of KMis178813 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2008 12:08
To: reflector at tvbf.org 

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not?

Grigore

   The fuel site gages, that Velocity sells, are very nice. I use them more
than the electronic gage. Turning your head to see real fuel is a lot more
reassuring than a blip on a screen that says your OK. I like to take the
upper skin of the lower strake out where you are installing the gauge. This
lets you move the gauge as far down as possible, to see the last of your
fuel. It really does not matter how full you are, just how empty!! 

               Ken

In a message dated 1/28/2008 7:44:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
grigore.rosu at gmail.com writes:

I have already ordered both the Jeffco (3 gal) and the fuel gauge kit from
Velocity.  Is there anything else I need before I start working on the fuel
tank?  Ken Baker suggested a "side gauge kit" as potentially useful, because
it allows you to always turn your head and see how much fuel you have left.
Any idea about that?  Is it worth considering, or it just makes the
installation of the fuel tanks more difficult and prone to leaking?

Many anticipated thanks,

Grigore

On Jan 28, 2008 5:56 PM, Alex Balic <velocity_pilot at verizon.net> wrote:

1)       I would recommend the Jeffco for a couple of reasons- first - it is
specifically designed to be a fuel sealer and is more resistant to alcohol
content than the epoxy (future concerns?)  also-  the opaque grey color
makes it a very simple matter to locate any pin holes (they appear black
against the light grey epoxy) while you are constructing. You will not want
to try to fine them after your tanks are sealed.  Since I have an auto
conversion, I built the entire tank using jeffco since I will almost
certainly be burning fuel containing methanol at some point.

2)       I tested my tanks using a cheap kid's party balloon- you just
install the inflated balloon to the vent of the tank you are testing, and
see if it is still inflated a day later. It also keeps some positive
pressure on the tank if you need to do a soap bubble leak test.

3)       I would not try to install any of the strake skins without the
wings attached- learned this from personal experience- as well as the
experience of a couple of other builders- don't use the factory alignment
templates either- just hang the wings and keep them there until the strakes
are done unless you are ready to apply a lot of filler to make the leading
edge of the strake match the leading edge of the wing.

  _____  

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Grigore Rosu
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:34 AM 

To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list

Subject: REFLECTOR: Jeffco or not? 

I'm about to install the bulkheads in my first strake and therefore I'll
soon need to worry about the fuel tank.

1) Should I use Jeffco or not?  The manual sounds as if Jeffco is optional
...  If I should use it, where can I get it from?  (I can do a random search
on the internet, but perhaps there are some better avenues that you may have
encountered so far).

2) Do I need an altimeter to test the fuel tank?  I have none, but the
messages I could find in the reflector archive on this subject mention an
altimeter.  BTW, can I test each tank in isolation, or they need to be both
installed first and checked together?

3) Should I finish the first strake (including installing the upper strake)
and then move to the other one, or it is better to also install the lower
strake on the other side and its bulkheads, then do both tanks at the same
time, and then install both upper strakes at the same time?  Note that I can
only install one wing at a time in my garage.  The flow-chart that came with
my manual says that the wing can be removed once the lower strake is
installed ... I'm a bit reluctant to do so though, because I'm affraid the
torsion generated by the spar may be too big without the upper strake.

Thank you,

Grigore

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the new year. 

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