REFLECTOR: Builder POH additions

Sun Feb 24 22:18:38 CST 2008

Terry 

Im not flying yet, but do you really have to have a chart for every situation?  None of my old airplanes had charts that went up to the density altutudes I fly from, but as far as I can tell, that doesn't make it illegal to do so. 

What I found and use that works wonders, is a simple KOCH chart. That thing is great! Works on every airplane and every DA. Then it tells you what to add to your sea level takeoff specs, and what to subtract from your climb performance. 

Kurt 

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Miles <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Builder POH additions

Keith,

Yes, I know.  Thanks for helping out again, but that’s right to my point.  It is for us to determine performance numbers and in particular for takeoff/landing data.    

Imagine a chart labeled “Takeoff Performance”  with Density Altitude on one axis and the takeoff ground run on the other.  Now see three sample lines drawn on the body of the chart.  One for 2900 pounds, 2500 pounds, and 2200 pounds.  Then a series of notes for runway slope, surface winds, other (?).  Do you plan on gathering and then tablizing or graphing takeoff performance data like that in the course of your phase one fly off?   Look at FAR 91.103    What are we to do?  It doesn’t say “Does not apply to runways over 5000 feet.”  

What will you—or any of us—do when asked say on a ramp check what is being used for a takeoff performance calculations on any given day?   And 2nd question how do you plan to present this info in your POH.   If we had a basic chart for the XL airframe and engine type it would be nice starting point:  Standard Day, no slope, no wind, dry surface…etc.  Mac’s thoughts on Ken B’s ref to the Cirrus might be a nice tool.  Then in the course of phase one comparison testing, you could develop your own set of deviations from chart values.   

It would be nice to find a performance engineer somewhere to give us some advice as to how to develop a baseline takeoff data chart.  As time permits, this is on my list of phase one questions/goals.  (and why I am making this inquiry)     I don’t know.  I depend on you guys a lot for what’s accepted GA practice, and what gets passed off as a mute point based on excess runway length.  I am only the result of my own experience, and takeoff performance was always calculated and cross checked by a 2nd crew member for every flight.  It surprises me in light of FAR directive that the factory “Owners’ Flight Manual” has nothing.    

Terry 

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Keith Hallsten
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:50 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Builder POH additions

Terry,

The purpose of the Phase 1 test flight period is to develop the information for the flight manual for your plane.  Since experimental planes do not conform to a type certificate, they are all somewhat different and no pre-published performance figures are directly applicable to them.  One Velocity XL might be similar to another Velocity XL, but that’s not assured.  We each have to determine the performance numbers that are applicable to our particular version of the Velocity family of aircraft.

Keith Hallsten

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Terry Miles
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:50 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: REFLECTOR: Builder POH additions

Hi,

I have been working a document that could be construed as a POH supplement.  I have seen some pretty fancy and extensive POH by some builders.  

What are all of you doing?  

As far as what is FAR legal, at a ramp check, wouldn’t the Velocity published Flight Manual and Weight and Balance book suffice for the POH requirement?  

(Obviously the wgt and bal numbers would have to be airplane to airplane specific.) 

In the area of performance I haven’t seen any Velo specific charts for things like measuring tkof wgt, density alt, and ground roll.  Does anybody have a basic set of performance charts for the XL?

As for systems operations and descriptions:  I have a pretty extensive collection of my own notes and of course a lot of avionics Pilot Ops Guide books and the like, but I am thinking now that they should be considered as part of a hangar library rather than formally made a part of  the POH.    That said:   I do plan to fly cross country with a laptop loaded with all this stuff and a spare USB drive with backups.

Last, to give an example of what I mean, here is one done by a Long EZ guy.  I also have the PDF version of this if anybody wants it.  It is complete with all kinds of nice artwork and charts that’s over a meg in size.  

Anybody wanna talk about what their POH looks like?

Thanks,

Terry

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