REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 19 - Aerocomposite prop
Mark Riley
anriley at comcast.net
Wed Aug 6 21:50:07 CDT 2008
Steve;
I agree. I'm a lawyer and have acquired more than my share of skepticism
over the years. I don't vouch for the fix, I just assume that we all want to
know Aerocomposite's position as to the cause and the fix. I'll submit
reports on my flight testing for the benefit of the group and we'll all find
out together if they are correct.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 9:21 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 19
Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
reflector at tvbf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
reflector-request at tvbf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
reflector-owner at tvbf.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18 - Aerocomposite prop
problem resolved (Mark Riley)
2. Re: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18 - Aerocomposite prop
problem resolved (steve korney)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 21:06:36 -0400
From: "Mark Riley" <anriley at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18 -
Aerocomposite prop problem resolved
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <200808070106.m7716Tck015532 at dax.awpi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I arrived at the Velocity dinner at Oshkosh and was immediately told by a
number of people that there had been a number of incidents in which an
Aerocomposite prop had frozen in one pitch. You may recall that Rene' Dugas
had experienced the problem on a very hot ramp. John Youngblood had the
problem while in flight shortly before Oshkosh.
Having just spent $16,000 on one of these props, I decided they would either
confirm for me (credibly) that the problem was resolved before mine was
shipped to me or I would return it.
I spoke with the chief engineer at Aerocomposite. It turns out that the
polyurethane ring on the hubs of the blades is manufactured in a room at
their facility that is not climate controlled. The coefficient of expansion
for the polyurethane is different than that of the metal in the hubs, which
are machined to very close tolerances. Therefore, if you got a prop with
poly rings that were machined on a very cold day and you live in a hot
climate, you could have a problem with jamming.
Their fix was to come up with a chart in the room in which the polyurethane
rings are machined. The settings on the machine are adjusted to correct for
any non-standard temperature by machining the rings smaller in cold weather
etc. They assured me that this is the reason for the problem and that it has
been resolved.
I just thought some of those who had used or were considering using the prop
might want to know.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:36 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18
Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
reflector at tvbf.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
reflector-request at tvbf.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
reflector-owner at tvbf.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Emailing: Vesta Prop (David Bertram)
2. Re: Investigation into Engine Failure (Al Gietzen)
3. Re: Investigation into Engine Failure (Alex Balic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:37:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "David Bertram" <n350tx at tx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Emailing: Vesta Prop
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <489873CE.000001.00276 at UPSTAIRS>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have over 120hrs on my MT electric. I love the prop especially since I
have had no problems. I find the electric responsive and easy to use.
Dave Bertram
N350TX
-------Original Message-------
From: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Date: 08/03/08 19:52:48
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Emailing: Vesta Prop
Hi Dave-
I never was really comfortable with the entire MT way of doing business -
from the price to the blade quality to the lag screw attachment, to the
damage history- to the ?send the prop to Germany to get that ding fixed?
procedure of theirs. I was looking at the aero composites- they look good,
but even more pricy than MT if that is even possible- I have provisions for
a prop governor on my PSRU, but would sure like to just go electric- as long
as it is responsive- I have heard that the MT is too slow to keep up with
the engine during power-up. I will be contacting Vesta tomorrow to get a
spec on a prop for mine- has a little over 300 hp , and the beta would be
nice for short runways too- might help the Matco?s stop my plane if you know
what I mean??.
Thanks for taking the first step for all of us- I hope that the prop works
flawlessly for you- still did not hear the Aero Composite story, would like
to find out what happened to it, although I am probably too cheap to ever
drop that much money on a prop anyway.
Alex
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of davedent at comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 10:37 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Emailing: Vesta Prop
Alex, mine is the VP-3 prop. It's a 78" because I have the Lyc. 260hp engine
If you go to http://www.vestav8.com/Propellers.htm there is a picture of
my prop. I have the hydraulic governor type control. He does make the
electric as well. I recommend the electric because it can go into bata for
short runways and it is very responsive. I was already set up for hydraulic
so I stayed with it. But you don't have the governor installed or bought
you may want to consider going electric.
The numbers are much like the MT so I wouldn't go the MT way just on the
cost and availability. Also they are made in the U.S.
Dave
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080805/0fb333ff/
attachment-0001.htm
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 21:59:29 -0800
From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Investigation into Engine Failure
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <000001c8f789$9722ce40$6401a8c0 at BigAl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I do worry about my radiator capacity- I have a properly sized belly ram
scoop, but the radiator is single row (supposedly for racing) and although
it has good size, it is rather thin- about 1.5" but might just work fine.
Alex;
'Thin' is fine, if you can fit in adequate core volume. With effective air
flow, it typically takes 2-2.5 cu. in. per hp. With a pusher an auxiliary
fan is generally required for effective cooling on the ground.
BTW; I have the RWS (Tracy) EC2 on my 3-rotor rotary - which I believe is
basically the same unit he sells for a 6-cylinder. I had one of the early
units, and had some headaches of being the beta tester. It has evolved
quite a bit since, and has been operating fine. Mine has 125 hours on it
now.
Best of luck,
Al
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080805/9253460a/
attachment-0001.htm
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:35:56 -0500
From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Investigation into Engine Failure
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <0K5600CPOJ00AKL8 at vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Al-
I do have a big fan on there for ground cooling- similar to what Dave
Bertram is running on his. I have the newest version of Tracy's unit-
called the EC3- it is the same unit that runs the rotaries, with some
program changes. I will be working diligently to get it up and running- I
have an engine monitor from Ed Anderson- nice little unit that mounts in a
small round panel cutout- it is also set up for rotary use (injector staging
ect) but will work well for me since it has fuel flow/use/ rpm. and mixture
displays for me. I will get a new video up as soon as I am running again.-
I had to pull my old wiring harness out, make a new one, and install the
LS-1 coils onto aluminum mounting plates that I had to fabricate- lots of
fun........... :)
Alex
_____
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:59 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Investigation into Engine Failure
I do worry about my radiator capacity- I have a properly sized belly ram
scoop, but the radiator is single row (supposedly for racing) and although
it has good size, it is rather thin- about 1.5" but might just work fine.
Alex;
'Thin' is fine, if you can fit in adequate core volume. With effective air
flow, it typically takes 2-2.5 cu. in. per hp. With a pusher an auxiliary
fan is generally required for effective cooling on the ground.
BTW; I have the RWS (Tracy) EC2 on my 3-rotor rotary - which I believe is
basically the same unit he sells for a 6-cylinder. I had one of the early
units, and had some headaches of being the beta tester. It has evolved
quite a bit since, and has been operating fine. Mine has 125 hours on it
now.
Best of luck,
Al
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080806/f02ae241/
attachment.htm
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
End of Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18
*****************************************
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 01:21:13 +0000
From: steve korney <s_korney at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18 -
Aerocomposite prop problem resolved
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BAY108-W550534BC5342EFB0C8CD10E7750 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well, the chief engineer had to say something.... Sounds a little fishy to
me.... Unless their machining a tolerance less then 2/10ths, I don't think
so... If that were the case it probably wouldn't work well at different
altitudes or temperatures either... What happens when the engine warms up
and the prop gets hot....?
Best... Steve
> From: anriley at comcast.net
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 21:06:36 -0400
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18 -
Aerocomposite prop problem resolved
>
> I arrived at the Velocity dinner at Oshkosh and was immediately told by a
> number of people that there had been a number of incidents in which an
> Aerocomposite prop had frozen in one pitch. You may recall that Rene'
Dugas
> had experienced the problem on a very hot ramp. John Youngblood had the
> problem while in flight shortly before Oshkosh.
>
> Having just spent $16,000 on one of these props, I decided they would
either
> confirm for me (credibly) that the problem was resolved before mine was
> shipped to me or I would return it.
>
> I spoke with the chief engineer at Aerocomposite. It turns out that the
> polyurethane ring on the hubs of the blades is manufactured in a room at
> their facility that is not climate controlled. The coefficient of
expansion
> for the polyurethane is different than that of the metal in the hubs,
which
> are machined to very close tolerances. Therefore, if you got a prop with
> poly rings that were machined on a very cold day and you live in a hot
> climate, you could have a problem with jamming.
>
> Their fix was to come up with a chart in the room in which the
polyurethane
> rings are machined. The settings on the machine are adjusted to correct
for
> any non-standard temperature by machining the rings smaller in cold
weather
> etc. They assured me that this is the reason for the problem and that it
has
> been resolved.
>
> I just thought some of those who had used or were considering using the
prop
> might want to know.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:36 AM
> To: reflector at tvbf.org
> Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18
>
> Send Reflector mailing list submissions to
> reflector at tvbf.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> reflector-request at tvbf.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> reflector-owner at tvbf.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Reflector digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Emailing: Vesta Prop (David Bertram)
> 2. Re: Investigation into Engine Failure (Al Gietzen)
> 3. Re: Investigation into Engine Failure (Alex Balic)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 10:37:50 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
> From: "David Bertram" <n350tx at tx.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Emailing: Vesta Prop
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <489873CE.000001.00276 at UPSTAIRS>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have over 120hrs on my MT electric. I love the prop especially since I
> have had no problems. I find the electric responsive and easy to use.
> Dave Bertram
> N350TX
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Date: 08/03/08 19:52:48
> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Emailing: Vesta Prop
>
> Hi Dave-
> I never was really comfortable with the entire MT way of doing business -
> from the price to the blade quality to the lag screw attachment, to the
> damage history- to the ?send the prop to Germany to get that ding fixed?
> procedure of theirs. I was looking at the aero composites- they look
good,
> but even more pricy than MT if that is even possible- I have provisions
for
> a prop governor on my PSRU, but would sure like to just go electric- as
long
> as it is responsive- I have heard that the MT is too slow to keep up with
> the engine during power-up. I will be contacting Vesta tomorrow to get a
> spec on a prop for mine- has a little over 300 hp , and the beta would be
> nice for short runways too- might help the Matco?s stop my plane if you
know
> what I mean??.
> Thanks for taking the first step for all of us- I hope that the prop works
> flawlessly for you- still did not hear the Aero Composite story, would
like
> to find out what happened to it, although I am probably too cheap to ever
> drop that much money on a prop anyway.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of davedent at comcast.net
> Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 10:37 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Emailing: Vesta Prop
>
> Alex, mine is the VP-3 prop. It's a 78" because I have the Lyc. 260hp
engine
> If you go to http://www.vestav8.com/Propellers.htm there is a picture
of
> my prop. I have the hydraulic governor type control. He does make the
> electric as well. I recommend the electric because it can go into bata for
> short runways and it is very responsive. I was already set up for
hydraulic
> so I stayed with it. But you don't have the governor installed or bought
> you may want to consider going electric.
> The numbers are much like the MT so I wouldn't go the MT way just on the
> cost and availability. Also they are made in the U.S.
> Dave
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080805/0fb333ff/
> attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 21:59:29 -0800
> From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Investigation into Engine Failure
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <000001c8f789$9722ce40$6401a8c0 at BigAl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I do worry about my radiator capacity- I have a properly sized belly ram
> scoop, but the radiator is single row (supposedly for racing) and although
> it has good size, it is rather thin- about 1.5" but might just work fine.
>
> Alex;
>
>
>
> 'Thin' is fine, if you can fit in adequate core volume. With effective
air
> flow, it typically takes 2-2.5 cu. in. per hp. With a pusher an auxiliary
> fan is generally required for effective cooling on the ground.
>
>
>
> BTW; I have the RWS (Tracy) EC2 on my 3-rotor rotary - which I believe is
> basically the same unit he sells for a 6-cylinder. I had one of the early
> units, and had some headaches of being the beta tester. It has evolved
> quite a bit since, and has been operating fine. Mine has 125 hours on it
> now.
>
>
>
> Best of luck,
>
>
>
> Al
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080805/9253460a/
> attachment-0001.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:35:56 -0500
> From: "Alex Balic" <velocity_pilot at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Investigation into Engine Failure
> To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <0K5600CPOJ00AKL8 at vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Al-
>
> I do have a big fan on there for ground cooling- similar to what Dave
> Bertram is running on his. I have the newest version of Tracy's unit-
> called the EC3- it is the same unit that runs the rotaries, with some
> program changes. I will be working diligently to get it up and running- I
> have an engine monitor from Ed Anderson- nice little unit that mounts in a
> small round panel cutout- it is also set up for rotary use (injector
staging
> ect) but will work well for me since it has fuel flow/use/ rpm. and
mixture
> displays for me. I will get a new video up as soon as I am running
again.-
> I had to pull my old wiring harness out, make a new one, and install the
> LS-1 coils onto aluminum mounting plates that I had to fabricate- lots of
> fun........... :)
>
> Alex
>
> _____
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Al Gietzen
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:59 AM
> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Investigation into Engine Failure
>
>
>
> I do worry about my radiator capacity- I have a properly sized belly ram
> scoop, but the radiator is single row (supposedly for racing) and although
> it has good size, it is rather thin- about 1.5" but might just work fine.
>
> Alex;
>
>
>
> 'Thin' is fine, if you can fit in adequate core volume. With effective
air
> flow, it typically takes 2-2.5 cu. in. per hp. With a pusher an auxiliary
> fan is generally required for effective cooling on the ground.
>
>
>
> BTW; I have the RWS (Tracy) EC2 on my 3-rotor rotary - which I believe is
> basically the same unit he sells for a 6-cylinder. I had one of the early
> units, and had some headaches of being the beta tester. It has evolved
> quite a bit since, and has been operating fine. Mine has 125 hours on it
> now.
>
>
>
> Best of luck,
>
>
>
> Al
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
>
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080806/f02ae241/
> attachment.htm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
>
> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 18
> *****************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
_________________________________________________________________
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home_082008
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/private/reflector/attachments/20080807/f9de11a7/
attachment.htm
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
End of Reflector Digest, Vol 51, Issue 19
*****************************************
More information about the Reflector
mailing list