REFLECTOR: Famliy Power!

Douglas Holub doug.holub at tx.rr.com
Sat May 12 21:30:25 CDT 2007


In case anyone's interested, the IC-A20 with the CM-7G NiCd battery pack lasted at least 6 hours. 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Scott Derrick 
  To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list 
  Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 7:43 PM
  Subject: REFLECTOR: Famliy Power!


  excellent decisions Doug!!! 

  I'm trying to bribe my uncle to come down and lend a hand....

  Scott

  Douglas Holub wrote: 
    This has been a good discussion. I charged up my IC-A20 overnight, and now I've got it on the patio monitoring DFW approach. I want to know how many hours it will last.

    My project got a big boost this week. My 18 year old son didn't have a job yet for this summer, so I hired him! Together, I think we're going to make a big dent in the project schedule before summer is over.

    Doug Holub

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb at alejandra.net>
    To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
    Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 7:32 AM
    Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery


    > This is a good discussion and one I've been pondering. I like Bob Nuckolls
    > idea of having more electrons available in the battery than fuel in the
    > tanks, it leaves you with the most options. When you're out of gas you're
    > definitely going to have to land somewhere soon, but...I'm not sure I'd make
    > the conscious decision to carry on to my planned destination on battery
    > power alone and possibly passing potential landing sites along the way, I
    > think I'd look to land at the first available airport to find and fix
    > whatever has broken. Am I being too conservative here? Just asking for a
    > sanity check, no criticism intended for others who might make a different
    > decision.
    > 
    > Tony 
    > 
    > 62% done, 78% to go
    > www.alejandra.net/velocity
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
    > Behalf Of Hiroo Umeno
    > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:50 PM
    > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
    > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    > 
    > 
    > Chuck, others,
    > 
    > Thanks for the explanations.  I have dual 680 in the nose plus the
    > afore-mentioned motorcycle battery backup.
    > 
    > I probably should do a "run-down" test to see how long I have on each stage
    > to the total darkness.  It would be useful to know how long I have on each
    > stage when the "unexpected" does happen.
    > 
    > Hiroo
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
    > Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
    > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:30 PM
    > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
    > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    > 
    > Hiroo,
    > 
    > Your not missing anything as far as the range of the Velo is concerned, but
    > its not always as simple as "land at the nearest IFR airport". Every year or
    > two, and some times more than once a year, the whole Atlantic Seaboard
    > (thanks to spell check, I didn't post Seabroad) will be socked in with low
    > lying fog that may be LIFR or worse.  3 or 4 years ago, there was this very
    > situation that trapped 3 planes that finally ran out of fuel looking for
    > someplace they could land.
    > 
    > Yes, you could head west over the mountains (Knoxville TN will be clear) but
    > it takes a brave heart to head for the mountains when the alternator is TU
    > and the battery is headed the same direction.  A couple hundred miles to the
    > south, or north, you might be in the clear, but the pucker factor will
    > certainly be high until you get there.  Now, if you know you have 3 or 4
    > hours of battery and fuel to match, it becomes only a source of concern, not
    > of fright.  If I recall correctly, we fly our planes for pleasure, not to
    > scare ourselves half to death.
    > 
    > If I run the VFR capacity check and, with load shedding, I don't do better
    > than 2 hours, the PC 680 is out and the PC 925 is "coming home to momma."
    > With that said, I expect the 680 will give me more than two hours with load
    > shedding--strobe and nav lights are the first to go.  If things really get
    > desparate, I might even consider killing the DVD and XM radio, but let's not
    > get hasty and panicky just yet.
    > 
    > Chuck Jensen
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
    > Behalf Of Hiroo Umeno
    > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 3:55 PM
    > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
    > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    > 
    > 
    > I don't have IFR experience yet so I might be missing something but...
    > 
    > Why do you need 2 hours?  Unless you are over open water or in the
    > wilderness of Alaska, you are never too far from an airfield with an IFR
    > approach, right?  So, if your "Low Voltage" light or "Alternater Failure"
    > light comes on, then the process should be...
    > 
    > 1.  Declare emergency to whomever you are currently talking to... 2. Get
    > vectors to the nearest airfield with IFR approach... 3.  Get yourself down.
    > 
    > With an average speed of a Velocity at 160Kts or more, you should be able to
    > get down under most situation in 30 minutes or less, no?
    > 
    > On my plane, I installed a secondary battery (motorcycle kind) that kicks in
    > when the mains go flat.  So the sequence of event on mine would look like...
    > 
    > 1.  Alternator failure light comes on. (Annunciator Panel) - Alternator is
    > no longer supplying 13.5V or above to the bus. 2.  Low Voltage warning.
    > (EFIS Alert) - Main battery getting low. 3.  Standby battery kicks in
    > (Annunciator indicates Backup Battery) - Main bus is isolated. EFIS, panel
    > lighting and Radios getting power 4.  Everything goes dark.
    > 
    > I am hoping this is enough warning to "get me down in a hurry".
    > 
    > The only thing about the way I did the electrical is that once the main bus
    > isolation kicks in, I will lose the ability to use any of the external
    > lighting (NAV, Strobe, Landing Lights, etc).
    > 
    > I will need to find a lighted field to land in.
    > 
    > Hiroo
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
    > Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
    > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:11 PM
    > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
    > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    > 
    > Larry,
    > 
    > Good advice all.  Fortunately, the GRT EFIS provides for alarming multiple
    > voltage points, so an alternator going off line will put an alarm on the
    > screen and I have a flashing red light for a separate alarm, though it
    > doesn't put out an audio alarm to the head sets.  One would hope that 2
    > hours is sufficient to escape IFR and with prompt load shedding, perhaps 3
    > or more.  Still, juice is like money...more is always better.
    > 
    > Chuck Jensen
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
    > Behalf Of Laurence Coen
    > Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:57 PM
    > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
    > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    > 
    > 
    > Chuck,
    > 
    > I use the Optima D34 (deep discharge version) like Pat.  I also did a
    > battery rundown test to check the real world expectation as opposed to the
    > theoretical.  During simulated night flight, two hours is all I got if I
    > 
    > didn't shed load.  When the buss voltage hits 10V, your radios stop working.
    > In IFR this is not good.  The battery isn't really "dead" but you are a no
    > radio flight.  The unfortunate truth about alternator failure is that it's
    > noticed when the radios go dead. Too late!  The other thing that often
    > happens is that the alternator partially fails and the battery slowly
    > discharges with each flight.  This means when the alternator finally gives
    > up the ghost your battery is already dead. What I'm trying to say is keep
    > the volt and ammeter in your scan and understand what they're telling you.
    > If you suspect a problem, shed load as much and as fast as you can. whatever
    > is gone isn't coming back.
    > 
    > Larry Coen
    > N136LC
    > 
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen at dts9000.com>
    > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
    > Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:23 AM
    > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    > 
    > 
    >> Keith,
    >>
    >> I concur with the two different missions for the battery, though I 
    >> understand the PC 680, in good condition, should be adequate for both 
    >> missions; namely cranking an IO 540 as well as provide escape time 
    >> from IFR electrical failure.  The IFR escape capacity of the battery 
    >> holds importance to me.  The PC 680, in good condition, seems to have 
    >> the 17 AH seems adequate to "get home" if the electrons stop birthing 
    >> and several parties report the 680 CA is amply to spin the IO 540, so 
    >> I'm going to give it a go.
    >>
    >> My current FLA battery is getting to the point that even after a good 
    >> charging flight, the next day it just barely makes the start, though 
    >> it always has.  Of course, when I install the PC 680, if I still have 
    >> the same problem, then I'll know to look elsewhere.  I believe this 
    >> process is known as being a "parts replacer" rather than a mechanic. 
    >> Of course, being a parts replacer makes me qualified to work in most 
    >> any automotive shop these days!
    >>
    >> And Pat, looking at your 38# monster battery, I'm thinking if your 
    >> alternator goes out, that you'll just have to remember to fix it after
    > 
    >> two or three days of flying.  It's got enough juice to get you home, 
    >> back again and home again.
    >>
    >> Chuck Jensen
    >>
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
    >> On Behalf Of Keith Hallsten
    >> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:52 PM
    >> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
    >> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
    >>
    >>
    >> Chuck,
    >>
    >> Sure - even a very small sealed lead-acid battery will crank the 
    >> engine... However, if you file IFR or fly at night and don't have a 
    >> back-up alternator you should consider establishing a minimum capacity
    > 
    >> for the battery that will be sufficient to get you to your intended 
    >> destination without breaking a sweat.  That's an entirely different 
    >> question and will depend on your enroute electrical loads for, say, 
    >> night flight.  If you stick to day VFR, this is not a significant 
    >> consideration unless you have an electrically dependant engine (EFI, 
    >> electrical fuel pump only).
    >>
    >> Keith
    >>
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
    >> On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
    >> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:16 PM
    >> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
    >> Subject: REFLECTOR: Odessey Battery
    >>
    >> Is the Odessey PC 680 battery sufficient to crank the IO-540?
    >>
    >> Chuck Jensen
    >>
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    > 
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