REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery

Douglas Holub doug.holub at tx.rr.com
Sat May 12 08:08:54 CDT 2007 

This has been a good discussion. I charged up my IC-A20 overnight, and now I've got it on the patio monitoring DFW approach. I want to know how many hours it will last.

My project got a big boost this week. My 18 year old son didn't have a job yet for this summer, so I hired him! Together, I think we're going to make a big dent in the project schedule before summer is over.

Doug Holub

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb at alejandra.net>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery


> This is a good discussion and one I've been pondering. I like Bob Nuckolls
> idea of having more electrons available in the battery than fuel in the
> tanks, it leaves you with the most options. When you're out of gas you're
> definitely going to have to land somewhere soon, but...I'm not sure I'd make
> the conscious decision to carry on to my planned destination on battery
> power alone and possibly passing potential landing sites along the way, I
> think I'd look to land at the first available airport to find and fix
> whatever has broken. Am I being too conservative here? Just asking for a
> sanity check, no criticism intended for others who might make a different
> decision.
> 
> Tony 
> 
> 62% done, 78% to go
> www.alejandra.net/velocity
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Hiroo Umeno
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:50 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
> 
> 
> Chuck, others,
> 
> Thanks for the explanations.  I have dual 680 in the nose plus the
> afore-mentioned motorcycle battery backup.
> 
> I probably should do a "run-down" test to see how long I have on each stage
> to the total darkness.  It would be useful to know how long I have on each
> stage when the "unexpected" does happen.
> 
> Hiroo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:30 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
> 
> Hiroo,
> 
> Your not missing anything as far as the range of the Velo is concerned, but
> its not always as simple as "land at the nearest IFR airport". Every year or
> two, and some times more than once a year, the whole Atlantic Seaboard
> (thanks to spell check, I didn't post Seabroad) will be socked in with low
> lying fog that may be LIFR or worse.  3 or 4 years ago, there was this very
> situation that trapped 3 planes that finally ran out of fuel looking for
> someplace they could land.
> 
> Yes, you could head west over the mountains (Knoxville TN will be clear) but
> it takes a brave heart to head for the mountains when the alternator is TU
> and the battery is headed the same direction.  A couple hundred miles to the
> south, or north, you might be in the clear, but the pucker factor will
> certainly be high until you get there.  Now, if you know you have 3 or 4
> hours of battery and fuel to match, it becomes only a source of concern, not
> of fright.  If I recall correctly, we fly our planes for pleasure, not to
> scare ourselves half to death.
> 
> If I run the VFR capacity check and, with load shedding, I don't do better
> than 2 hours, the PC 680 is out and the PC 925 is "coming home to momma."
> With that said, I expect the 680 will give me more than two hours with load
> shedding--strobe and nav lights are the first to go.  If things really get
> desparate, I might even consider killing the DVD and XM radio, but let's not
> get hasty and panicky just yet.
> 
> Chuck Jensen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Hiroo Umeno
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 3:55 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
> 
> 
> I don't have IFR experience yet so I might be missing something but...
> 
> Why do you need 2 hours?  Unless you are over open water or in the
> wilderness of Alaska, you are never too far from an airfield with an IFR
> approach, right?  So, if your "Low Voltage" light or "Alternater Failure"
> light comes on, then the process should be...
> 
> 1.  Declare emergency to whomever you are currently talking to... 2. Get
> vectors to the nearest airfield with IFR approach... 3.  Get yourself down.
> 
> With an average speed of a Velocity at 160Kts or more, you should be able to
> get down under most situation in 30 minutes or less, no?
> 
> On my plane, I installed a secondary battery (motorcycle kind) that kicks in
> when the mains go flat.  So the sequence of event on mine would look like...
> 
> 1.  Alternator failure light comes on. (Annunciator Panel) - Alternator is
> no longer supplying 13.5V or above to the bus. 2.  Low Voltage warning.
> (EFIS Alert) - Main battery getting low. 3.  Standby battery kicks in
> (Annunciator indicates Backup Battery) - Main bus is isolated. EFIS, panel
> lighting and Radios getting power 4.  Everything goes dark.
> 
> I am hoping this is enough warning to "get me down in a hurry".
> 
> The only thing about the way I did the electrical is that once the main bus
> isolation kicks in, I will lose the ability to use any of the external
> lighting (NAV, Strobe, Landing Lights, etc).
> 
> I will need to find a lighted field to land in.
> 
> Hiroo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 12:11 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
> 
> Larry,
> 
> Good advice all.  Fortunately, the GRT EFIS provides for alarming multiple
> voltage points, so an alternator going off line will put an alarm on the
> screen and I have a flashing red light for a separate alarm, though it
> doesn't put out an audio alarm to the head sets.  One would hope that 2
> hours is sufficient to escape IFR and with prompt load shedding, perhaps 3
> or more.  Still, juice is like money...more is always better.
> 
> Chuck Jensen
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Laurence Coen
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:57 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
> 
> 
> Chuck,
> 
> I use the Optima D34 (deep discharge version) like Pat.  I also did a
> battery rundown test to check the real world expectation as opposed to the
> theoretical.  During simulated night flight, two hours is all I got if I
> 
> didn't shed load.  When the buss voltage hits 10V, your radios stop working.
> In IFR this is not good.  The battery isn't really "dead" but you are a no
> radio flight.  The unfortunate truth about alternator failure is that it's
> noticed when the radios go dead. Too late!  The other thing that often
> happens is that the alternator partially fails and the battery slowly
> discharges with each flight.  This means when the alternator finally gives
> up the ghost your battery is already dead. What I'm trying to say is keep
> the volt and ammeter in your scan and understand what they're telling you.
> If you suspect a problem, shed load as much and as fast as you can. whatever
> is gone isn't coming back.
> 
> Larry Coen
> N136LC
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen at dts9000.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 1:23 AM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
> 
> 
>> Keith,
>>
>> I concur with the two different missions for the battery, though I 
>> understand the PC 680, in good condition, should be adequate for both 
>> missions; namely cranking an IO 540 as well as provide escape time 
>> from IFR electrical failure.  The IFR escape capacity of the battery 
>> holds importance to me.  The PC 680, in good condition, seems to have 
>> the 17 AH seems adequate to "get home" if the electrons stop birthing 
>> and several parties report the 680 CA is amply to spin the IO 540, so 
>> I'm going to give it a go.
>>
>> My current FLA battery is getting to the point that even after a good 
>> charging flight, the next day it just barely makes the start, though 
>> it always has.  Of course, when I install the PC 680, if I still have 
>> the same problem, then I'll know to look elsewhere.  I believe this 
>> process is known as being a "parts replacer" rather than a mechanic. 
>> Of course, being a parts replacer makes me qualified to work in most 
>> any automotive shop these days!
>>
>> And Pat, looking at your 38# monster battery, I'm thinking if your 
>> alternator goes out, that you'll just have to remember to fix it after
> 
>> two or three days of flying.  It's got enough juice to get you home, 
>> back again and home again.
>>
>> Chuck Jensen
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>> On Behalf Of Keith Hallsten
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:52 PM
>> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
>> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Odyssey Battery
>>
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Sure - even a very small sealed lead-acid battery will crank the 
>> engine... However, if you file IFR or fly at night and don't have a 
>> back-up alternator you should consider establishing a minimum capacity
> 
>> for the battery that will be sufficient to get you to your intended 
>> destination without breaking a sweat.  That's an entirely different 
>> question and will depend on your enroute electrical loads for, say, 
>> night flight.  If you stick to day VFR, this is not a significant 
>> consideration unless you have an electrically dependant engine (EFI, 
>> electrical fuel pump only).
>>
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>> On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 4:16 PM
>> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>> Subject: REFLECTOR: Odessey Battery
>>
>> Is the Odessey PC 680 battery sufficient to crank the IO-540?
>>
>> Chuck Jensen
>>
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