REFLECTOR: Reflector Digest, Vol 37, Issue 56
matt
mbuc310 at cox.net
Wed Jun 13 12:22:54 CDT 2007
Something loose or arcing inside the electroair unit?
Matt
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Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:00 AM
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Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 37, Issue 56
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Today's Topics:
1. Ignition Noise (Ron Brown)
2. Re: Ignition Noise (steve korney)
3. Re: Ignition Noise (Ron Brown)
4. Re: Ignition Noise (steve korney)
5. Re: Ignition Noise (Ron Brown)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:58:25 -0400
From: "Ron Brown" <romott at roadrunner.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>,
<aeroelectric-list at matronics.com>, <rv-list at matronics.com>
Message-ID: <004401c7adba$87a888c0$0202a8c0 at romott>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have resumarized the problem and trouble shooting to make the reading (and
your suggestions easier):
The PROBLEM:
Spark plug noise on the Garmin 430 audio out to the headphones. No noise on
the #2 COM which is a Microair 760. Noise increases in frequency (twice
engine RPM) as engine RPM is increased. Noise goes away when the Jeff Rose
Electroair Electronic Ignition system is turned off. Noise also goes away
when the COM antenna is disconnected from the Garmin 430. The noise
continues when the PS4000 Intercom/Audio panel is turned off. The noise is
also evident on the Garmin's NAV Audio. Spark noise can be heard on a Radio
Shack portable scanner. The noise has been there for quite a while - but in
the past it always improved after a few minutes to the point it was not a
nuisance after a few minutes of running. But now the noise is continuous.
By the way, the noise does not break the automatic squelch - but can be
heard when a distant transmitter breaks squelch or the auto squelch turned
off on the Garmin.
Other info about the system. Velocity with Lycoming IO 360 flying for 350
hours. Slick magneto and Jeff Rose Electroair Electronic Ignition. The
ignition power goes down the right duct with the other noisy wires such as
the 4 ga main feed to the starter and alternator and the copper ground
tubing vacuum line . My headphone connections are in the keel behind the
seats. The headset jacks are grounded only at the Audio Panel. My antenna
wires run down either side of the fuselage just above the floor ducts.
All of my instrument panel grounds are to a single point - ground bus bar
which is connected to the negative side of the battery. The avionics are
fed off an avionics bus which can be fed off of the main power bus or
directly from the battery (an implementation of Nuckolls essential bus).
There is a diode between the main bus and the essential bus which prevents
the main bus from dragging down the essential bus.
The TROUBLESHOOTING:
1.. Swapped COM Antennas, connected a portable antenna
2.. Swapped headphones.
3.. Installed balluns on the COM antenna wire.
4.. Swapped Garmin 430's with a friend.
5.. Installed new REM37BY Autolite spark plugs
6.. Installed new radio resistance spark plug wires from Electroair
7.. Powered the Garmin from a 2nd battery, installed a Radio Shack noise
filter (choke and capacitor).
8.. Checked grounds (cleaned and retightened) at EI and central ground bus
at instrument panel
9.. Checked grounds for the power going to the EI. It was grounded on
both ends, lifted the ground at the panel - no effect.
10.. Powered the EI via a twisted pair cable connected to a 2nd battery.
11.. Installed a Radio Shack noise filter (choke and capacitor) on the EI
power input.
12.. Replaced the direct fire coils (NAPA IC39SB - same as used on Pontiac
and Buick auto engines)
13.. removed the EI timing head so that I could spin it and make sparks
while the engine was not running looking/listening for spark jumping
anywhere, none found.
14.. Replaced one plug wire at a time then checked for noise while
spinning timing head. No change.
I can't think of anything else to try other than replacing the EI with a
Slick magneto - ain't going to happen!
Any and all ideas WELCOMED!!!!
THANKS!
Ronnie Brown
Velocity 173 Elite RG Lycoming IO360
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:58:22 +0000
From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <BAY101-F257C4A6ACC3E69CCB714BFE7180 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Ronnie...
What RPM did you run the EI at when it was out of the mag hole...
Best... Steve
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:16:53 -0400
From: "Ron Brown" <romott at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <005701c7add6$41c2f1d0$0202a8c0 at romott>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I just spun it by hand. I meant to take an RC starter motor and turn it but
I forgot to get it before I took off for the airport. It made sparks on a
test plug and you could hear it on the radio.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
>
> Ronnie...
>
> What RPM did you run the EI at when it was out of the mag hole...
>
>
> Best... Steve
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:33:34 +0000
From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <BAY101-F200C6C5D34914C84366671E7180 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
The Elecroair has to spin at least two revolutions before it will spark...
That's so it can decide where it is... It only has one pick-up....
I put an EI on my test stand and I get noise on my portable KX-99 hand held
anywhere in the hangar... It might have something to do with the RF filters
in the radio...
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ron Brown" <romott at roadrunner.com>
Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:16:53 -0400
I just spun it by hand. I meant to take an RC starter motor and turn it but
I forgot to get it before I took off for the airport. It made sparks on a
test plug and you could hear it on the radio.
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
>
> Ronnie...
>
> What RPM did you run the EI at when it was out of the mag hole...
>
>
> Best... Steve
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
_______________________________________________
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:51:35 -0400
From: "Ron Brown" <romott at roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <007001c7addb$1ac464b0$0202a8c0 at romott>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I am beginning to believe that too. The Microair works fine!
But the 430 has gotten worse - the other 430 that I tried did exactly the
same thing.
I'm headed to the hangar to try to check the 430 grounds again.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
>
> The Elecroair has to spin at least two revolutions before it will spark...
> That's so it can decide where it is... It only has one pick-up....
>
> I put an EI on my test stand and I get noise on my portable KX-99 hand
> held
> anywhere in the hangar... It might have something to do with the RF
> filters
> in the radio...
>
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Ron Brown" <romott at roadrunner.com>
> Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:16:53 -0400
>
> I just spun it by hand. I meant to take an RC starter motor and turn it
> but
> I forgot to get it before I took off for the airport. It made sparks on a
> test plug and you could hear it on the radio.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
> To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:58 AM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Ignition Noise
>
>
> >
> > Ronnie...
> >
> > What RPM did you run the EI at when it was out of the mag hole...
> >
> >
> > Best... Steve
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
> >
>
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
>
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=
33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&
encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
------------------------------
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