REFLECTOR: Featherfill A NOGO.

matt mbuc310 at cox.net
Mon Jul 9 22:41:25 CDT 2007


That about wraps that up. Thanks for the info. Next time I see  him, I will
just smile and wave.
Matt

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From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: 2007-07-09 17:44
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 38, Issue 48


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Featherfill G2 (Joe Ewen)
   2. Re:  Featherfill G2 (Al Gietzen)
   3. Re:  Degreaser recommendation (Hiroo Umeno)
   4. Re:  Degreaser recommendation (Hiroo Umeno)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:24:52 -0400
From: "Joe Ewen" <jewen at comporium.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Featherfill G2
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <001e01c7c280$5a6f1420$6405a8c0 at cooleygroup.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Matt,
I used a coat of featherfill on my wings to smooth  pin holes and small
imperfections.  I used it only after contacting the manufacturer for
compatability info.  According to the manufacturer it was compatible with
fiberglass, epoxies, etc.  Most of it was sprayed over epoxy primer (as a
surfacer,) some over bare fiberglass.  Everything looked pretty good after
topcoating (PPG 2 stage.)  After about 6 months and a winter temperture
cycle, I had delamination in multiple areas, some spots as large as a foot
in diameter, I ended up repainting the whole wing.  The failure was between
the featherfill and the underlying structure.  3M makes a comparable product
that I tested and had even worse results than the featherfill.

I would suggest using epoxy/micro balloon for shape, epoxy primer, then a
sandable primer surfacer (most of it is sanded off) to fill the pin holes
and minor defects.  I would not suggest using bondo or sprayable polyester
fillers for shaping large areas as one would use the epoxy micro balloon,
that would add a lot of weight to the structure.

Your mileage may vary,
Joe


----- Original Message -----
From: "matt" <mbuc310 at cox.net>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 4:38 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Featherfill G2


> My neighbor, watching me make a clowd of sanding dust,  asked me why I
> don't
> just spray my wings/canard with this Featherfill G2 polyester product,
> instead of using the epoxy micro balloon. Since I have no answer, I put it
> to you all. Why not?  Apparently his painter has used it on helicopter
> repairs under jetglow paint.
> His theory is, spray it on, let it cure, then sand it. He claims it is as
> hard as epoxy and much easier to apply and sand.
> Matt
>
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:33:44 -0800
From: "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures at cox.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Featherfill G2
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
	<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <003201c7c289$f9405740$6400a8c0 at BigAl>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

My neighbor, watching me make a clowd of sanding dust,  asked me why I don't
just spray my wings/canard with this Featherfill G2 polyester product,
instead of using the epoxy micro balloon. Since I have no answer, I put it
to you all. Why not?  Apparently his painter has used it on helicopter
repairs under jetglow paint.
His theory is, spray it on, let it cure, then sand it. He claims it is as
hard as epoxy and much easier to apply and sand.
Matt

Matt;

I recall from some discussion here a few years back that polyester fillers
caused some folks nightmares a few years after they painted.  Maybe with a
polyester paint over; but don't put it under epoxy primers or urethane
paints.

Al



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:40:38 -0700
From: Hiroo Umeno <humeno at microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID:
	<9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C413391E at NA-EXMSG-C103.redmond.corp.micr
osoft.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

After much digging around...  Another big issue seems to be of just where
one would get ahold of such material.  It looks like it's not something I
can call up some vendor with a credit card number and have shipped to me.
(After reading some more into the nature of the beast, there probably is a
really good reason behind that, too).

Any suggestions?  Alternatives?

Hiroo

From: Hiroo Umeno
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 1:09 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation

Alex,

Not being really up to speed on my Organic Chemistry...  Is Freon the same
thing as CFC?  There are a bunch of them listed here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freon but it looks like PCE
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachloroethylene) is what I am looking for.

>From the entry there, it looks like at least that variety does not count as
ODC and (relatively speaking) less problematic as long as precautions are
made not to let it get into groundwater.  As for use, it looks like I will
need to use it in well ventilated area and with protection against skin
contact.  Does that sound about right?

It gets me a bit nervous when I start talking about this kind of stuff.

Hiroo

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Alex Balic
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:25 PM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation

Hiroo-
You can use Freon to degrease the structure- will penetrates the glass and
will take all of the oil with it as it drips off- if it can not drip off,
then it will leave the oil where it evaporates- just watch your hands for
cold if you decide to go with it- will not otherwise affect anything but the
oil.

Alex

________________________________
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Hiroo Umeno
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:42 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation

In about 20 some hours of flying, the bottom half of N21HV is pretty
saturated with mineral oil.  I had a very slow leak at the nose cooler that
went undetected for a while that puddle the oil on the nose that soaked into
the fuselage bottom foam.  It is to the point where the co-pilot side floor
is slimy.  The rear-end is also quite oily from the Franklin spitting and
dripping oil everywhere.

So, I am in search of a good de-greaser but I am a bit confused by all the
choices.  Here is what I am looking for...

Pri-1

*         Deep penetrating (into the foam and fiberglass structure)

*         Non-corrosive (safe for metal structure)
Pri-2 (nice to have)

*         Non-toxic  / easy handling

In general, how do they work?  I do know for surface degreaser, you apply
them and wash them off but for the soaked-in foam, how does that work?

Hiroo
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:43:57 -0700
From: Hiroo Umeno <humeno at microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID:
	<9F59E90E6E525B40BB7B59BD72271CF760C4133924 at NA-EXMSG-C103.redmond.corp.micr
osoft.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Kurt,

Have you tried it on "soaked through" oil, like in foam and glass?  At $7 a
gal, I could give that a try but I don't want to find myself in a situation
where whatever I use gets saturated in the foam, too and soon have a unknown
chemical cocktail under my floor with potential for fumes, spontaneous
combustion, etc...

Hiroo

From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of nmflyer1 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 12:13 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation

Hiroo,

I have had very good results with "super clean" made by Castrol. I pick it
up at Wal-Mart for about $7.00/Gal. It is in a purple gallon jug.
for very messy stuff I put it in a spray bottle full strength. It rinses
clean with water and leaves no slippery residue.

Hope that helps,   Kurt


-----Original Message-----
From: Hiroo Umeno <humeno at microsoft.com>
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:41 am
Subject: REFLECTOR: Degreaser recommendation
In about 20 some hours of flying, the bottom half of N21HV is pretty
saturated with mineral oil.  I had a very slow leak at the nose cooler that
went undetected for a while that puddle the oil on the nose that soaked into
the fuselage bottom foam.  It is to the point where the co-pilot side floor
is slimy.  The rear-end is also quite oily from the Franklin spitting and
dripping oil everywhere.

So, I am in search of a good de-greaser but I am a bit confused by all the
choices.  Here is what I am looking for...

Pri-1
*         Deep penetrating (into the foam and fiberglass structure)
*         Non-corrosive (safe for metal structure)
Pri-2 (nice to have)
*         Non-toxic  / easy handling

In general, how do they work?  I do know for surface degreaser, you apply
them and wash them off but for the soaked-in foam, how does that work?

Hiroo

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