REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
Jim & Sharon Beck
jsbeck at charter.net
Sat Dec 15 11:10:28 CST 2007
Hi Ron
Looks like the only difference in wt in our aircraft may be in the prop. However my empty cg is 127.72 so I need a 215 pound pilot to fly solo without ballast to come up to 122.0 It seems that the 134 cg you mentioned is extremely far aft. My canard comes off the ground quite easily by at 60 mph if you apply a little aft stick but the main wing comes off at 85 mph ( 90 is better ) I am considering vg on the main wing only. good luck on your sale if you really want to part with it.
Thanks ,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Brown
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
Jim,
I too have a 173 Elite RG with IO 360 and Catto prop. My empty weight is 1505 pounds. I wish I had weighed my wings when they were off the fuselage. My empty CG is at 134 inches. I built my plane light with minimum epoxy (using the epoxy cloth between two pieces of plastic sheeting and using a squeegee to remove excess epoxy) and lots of peel ply. I have always thought that Alan's wings were heavy. I know his pressure molding technique (instead of vacuum bagging the wings) is not conducive to building light wings. I did use two coats of Jeffco in the fuel tanks - so that added some weight since it is heavier than EZ poxy.
I would like to see numbers from non fast build wings for a 173 Elite RG. They may shed the light on how heavy (or light) Alan's wings really are. Since much of the wings are behind the CG, heavier wings would tend to push the CG backward.
Re the long take off runs - if you have the cuffs on the elevators, I think they would raise the lift off speed since they make the canard stall (and start lifting) at a higher speed.
Ronnie Brown
173 Elite RG for Sale http://home.roadrunner.com/~romott/
----- Original Message -----
From: lawrence epstein
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
As I recall, Alan sent a "spec sheet" with the wings which gave the measurements on the installed antennae and the weight of each wings. They usually came out a little lighter than owner built. I think it would be hard for him to add 100lbs to the weight. My guess it is in the fuselage, but that does sound about 150-200 lbs over average.
Larry Epstein
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From: jsbeck at charter.net
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:44:55 -0800
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
Ronnie & Jerry
Thanks for your help, I finally got my new weight & balance using both of your methods. I found 1 inch difference and weighed it both ways and found that having the main gear 1 inch higher only changed the nose gear weight by 1& 1/2 pounds with full fuel, from 92 to 91.5.
I was a bit surprised and disappointed in how heavy my aircraft is. It weighed in at 1530 empty for a 173 RG Elite with IO 360 lycoming and mt 3 blade electric prop and dynamic wings fast built delivered in 4/96 . The builder had told me that he thought the wings were about 100 lb overweight. this extra weight may explain why it seems to use so much runway to get in the air. Just wondering what others have for empty weights on similar aircraft.
Thanks
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Brainard, Jerry
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
Fore/Aft Level will depend on the specific mid-spar installation. I have an early fast build and that particular leveling task became an issue since there was not "bolt hole" and the cowling was already removed. The factory just measured a about four plane in the service center and determined that the tip of the nose should be 1.5 inches below the bottom of the mid-spar. Of course it also was explained that they had built them with the nose higher and lower and it did not really make any difference.
On a completed plane, I suggest using the wing incidence gauge.
- jerry
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From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Ron Brown
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 7:38 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
Hello Jim,
If memory serves me right, the bottom of the CS spar next to the fuselage and the tip of the nose are the level points. Use a clear plastic hose with water in it. You can use the bottom of the wing next to the fuselage and 1/4" below the nose with the wings on. Just make sure you are level side to side too.
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim & Sharon Beck
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 5:00 PM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Reflector Leveling A/C
Can anyone help me with the best place to get a for & aft level on a finished aircraft. I want to do a new W/B and can get a side to side level off of my spar.
I did not build the aircraft so don't know where the level spots are. I have the level for the main wings and canard with the small jigs used to build it, but they do no have the same incidence. the firewall and the main spar seem to have enough glass and epoxy on them to make it difficult to find a spot that a level will sit on and give me an accurate reading.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Jim
173RG N29RP
250 hrs
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