REFLECTOR: RE: Test area

Velocity_AZ velocity_az at cox.net
Wed May 10 16:15:06 CDT 2006


What type of engine do you have? Do you have a constant speed prop?  Unless
you're turbo-charged, it sounds a little scary to me.

I have a 173FG with an IO-360 (with 10:1 pistons) which produces 230hp + an
M-T constant speed prop (1630 empty weight).  My airport is at 1500' with a
4500' runway.  I can use over 50% of the runway with only two people on
board with 40 gallons (2/3 full) to reach 70-75 kts (which I think is
comfortable for rotation speed).  While the 173 is supposedly more stable in
flight - we definitely gave up speed and added weight with these big wings.
You could use even more runway if you need center-line correction (read:
differential braking) during take-off.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Teitsma
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:26 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: RE: Test area

I have a unique problem.  I am nearing time to fly my 173 Elite FG.  My
plane is in a hangar at GNB - Granby CO airport.  I have a 5,000 ft paved
runway but have an altitude of about 8200 ft.  For reasons of engine
break-in and safety, I am considering disassembling and taking the plane to
the Denver area - 3,000 feet lower.  Will that help sufficiently?  To get to
a lower altitude than that, I would be traveling a good ways and to an
unknown area.  Trailering the plane out of state would require a wide load
permit and a lot of hassle.  Any suggestions?

Jerry Teitsma, RRC, RRO, CCCA
RCI, Inc
PO Box 796, Granby CO 80446 (USPS mail/shipping)
36 Lodgepole Ct, Granby CO 80446 (UPS/FedEx shipping) 970-887-3910
(Phone/Fax) jerryteits at comcast.net

----- Original Message -----
From: <reflector-request at tvbf.org>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18


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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. RE:  Test Area - and "essential crew" (Hiroo Umeno)
>   2. Re:  Flyoff Area - and "essential crew" (michalk)
>   3. Re:  Another step (John Overman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 11:47:58 -0700
> From: "Hiroo Umeno" <humeno at microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Test Area - and "essential crew"
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID:
>
<CC381FC09CE81C43BF0C63966BF4C66F0268DCD5 at RED-MSG-11.redmond.corp.microsoft.
com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Quite interesting indeed...
>
>
>
> It seems like much depends on the DAR.  I've always thought having
> another body in the right seat with a clipboard would be quite handy for
> the flight testing as I need to rattle off some numbers and have them
> jot down as I go along.  For things like when the pitch buck starts,
> things that happen during take-off and landing rolls, buffeting, etc
> when I will be quite busy flying the plane.
>
>
>
> Definitely something to ask the DAR about.
>
>
>
> Thanks, all for good discussions!
>
>
>
> Hiroo
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Al Gietzen
> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:52 AM
> To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Test Area - and "essential crew"
>
>
>
>  My
>
> understanding of the FAR was that you can only land at one field during
>
> the Phase 1 and will have a box somewhere nearby over sparsely populated
>
> areas.
>
>
>
> That was my understanding as well, but while discussing possible other
> landing strips in my test area for emergency landing, my DAR indicated I
> could land at any field of my choice at any time.  Nothing in the
> operating limitations limiting where I land within the test area.
>
>
>
> The other interesting thing is the change in wording on the operating
> limitations regarding other people in the plane.  Previous wording I had
> seen was no one besides the pilot and "essential crew".  By the FAA's
> definition, there is no essential crew in a single engine airplane.  The
> wording on mine now says "only persons essential to the purpose of the
> flight".  My DAR says someone to take data, or other actions for a
> particular test purpose, during the flight is quite alright.
>
>
>
> So maybe it depends on the discretion of the DAR; which doesn't really
> seem appropriate.
>
>
>
> Al
>
>
>
> I would love to be able to fly the plane down to its home field once a
>
> couple flights is done to continue its fly-off.  They have a longer
>
> runway (enough for 747s and 777s.), it is a controlled field and have a
>
> much better support in terms of FBOs and emergency equipments
>
> (hopefully, I won't need their services but it is always nice to know
>
> they're there).
>
>
>
> It looks like there is some flexibility in the regs to make arrangements
>
> like that.
>
>
>
> Hiroo
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>
> Behalf Of Richard Riley
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:45 PM
>
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Another step
>
>
>
> At 10:29 PM 5/9/2006, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>Congrats from DU Al....now how ya gonna fly off
>
>>the 40 hrs within 2 weeks so you can get this beast down to the
>
> symposium?
>
>
>
> I'll let you all in on a little secret.
>
>
>
> In 99 we were finishing a plane to run at
>
> Reno.  We did a year's worth of work in about 6
>
> weeks.  Got it done a few days before the race.
>
>
>
> I got a DAR who'd never inspected a homebuilt
>
> before.  He didn't know what homebuilt flight
>
> limitations normally looked like.  So I typed them up for him.
>
>
>
> We got a test area that was a 25 mile radius
>
> around Camarillo airport, where we did the first
>
> flight.   But, we were allowed to test out of a
>
> couple of other airports too.  We had a 25 mile
>
> radius around Mojave and Fox, and a 10 mile corridor between them.
>
>
>
> And 25 miles around Chino, and a corridor there.
>
>
>
> And 25 miles around Stead.  And a corridor there.
>
>
>
> And that's how it was that were racing at Reno
>
> with an airplane that had it's first flight 4 days earlier.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 14:20:26 -0500
> From: michalk <michalk at awpi.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Flyoff Area - and "essential crew"
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <44623CFA.2010108 at awpi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> How about getting this verbage as part of test conditions?  Actually
> have it stated that a second person may be present to collect data?
>
> Hiroo Umeno wrote:
>> Quite interesting indeed.
>>
>>
>>
>> It seems like much depends on the DAR.  I've always thought having
>> another body in the right seat with a clipboard would be quite handy for
>> the flight testing as I need to rattle off some numbers and have them
>> jot down as I go along.  For things like when the pitch buck starts,
>> things that happen during take-off and landing rolls, buffeting, etc
>> when I will be quite busy flying the plane.
>>
>>
>>
>> Definitely something to ask the DAR about.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, all for good discussions!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 12:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Overman <mooneydryver at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Another step
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Message-ID: <20060510194034.63011.qmail at web52701.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Congratulations Al; Judging by the pictures you have
> posted from time to time It looks like you have a
> beautifully built airplane. I hope it flies as good as
> it looks
>                          John
>
> --- Al Gietzen <ALVentures at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Today Velocity N755V received its FAA certification
>> of airworthiness.
>> Hooray!
>>
>>
>>
>> Al
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> To change your email address, visit
>> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>>
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>> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
>> Check old archives:
> http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Reflector Digest, Vol 24, Issue 18
> ***************************************** 

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