Major change requirements: was Re: Fw: REFLECTOR: Aircraft Condition
Notice
Scott Derrick
scott at tnstaafl.net
Wed Mar 8 10:10:59 CST 2006
I will try to explain to the folks interested in this thread so we don't
propagate this common misunderstanding of maintenance on a homebuilt.
Incidentally, the folks I find most confused on this issue to be IA's
and A&P's. I think they resent the limitation of their "god like"
powers that they have over type certified airplanes, that they don't
have over homebuilt's.
Order 8130.2e is instructions on how to issue airworthiness certificates
for airplanes and parts. Here is the link to the entire document.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgOrders.nsf/0/1b8b51d15012d0e586256d730063d4bc/$FILE/Order8130.2E_with_change%202.pdf
paragraph 134 explains how to issue a certificate for a Experimental
Homebuilt. I think what is confusing you is you are reading this as the
rule for every existing homebuilt. It is not. This is instructions for
the inspector on how to word the Certificate and Operating Limitations
for a new certificate. So if you were to apply for a new or a
re-issued OL, he or she "may" use this as a template but they are
given wide latitude in changing it. This paragraph in no way effects
your or my certificate or Operating Limitions.
Notice the title of the paragraph, its an "ISSUANCE" not a definition.
134. ISSUANCE OF EXPERIMENTAL AMATEUR-BUILT OPERATING LIMITATIONS.
Like all FAA regs if taken out of context they can be easily
miss-interpreted.
paragraph 134 is a small part of section 7 which deals with all aspects
of homebuilt certification.
SECTION 7. EXPERIMENTAL AMATEUR-BUILT AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATIONS
If you go to the paragraph 128 which deals with certificate procedures
it will explain the required records and inspection and the lifetime of
the certificate and operating limitations. Specifically sub paragraph
D.2 on page 142. as quoted below.
(2) For the phase II limitations, the FAA must prescribe operating
limitations for the operation
of an amateur-built aircraft for an unlimited duration, as appropriate.
As you can see the Operating Limitations issued for each aircraft has an
unlimited duration. They are good for the life of the plane.
So, since part 43 does not apply to our airplanes, unless specifically
mentioned in your Operating Limitions(most mention appendix d for the
yearly inspection). For my particular OL, paragraph 19 spells out what
I need to do for a major change, and no where does it mention getting an
approved 337, inspection by an IA, A&P or FAA inspector, nor does it
require me to inform anybody. There are requirements for testing and
logging the change and tests, that is all.
Your Operating Limitation's may and probably do vary. Everybody needs to
be familiar with the Operating Limitations issued for "their" aircraft,
as other aircraft OL's mean nothing as far as their airplanes requirements.
I hope this has cleared up your confusion.
Scott
Andrew Ellzey wrote:
> Maybe its not me that is missing the point. Regulations are updated
> for a reason. If they don't apply to you then don't follow them. I
> looks very clear to me that if you make a MAJOR change to your
> aircraft as listed in 21.93 you ARE required to notify the FAA again
> paragraph 19 of 8130.2E . How much clearer can it be written. If you
> contact your man at the FAA and he says that he doesn't care, you
> better get it in writing. The next FAA inspector that does a ramp
> check on your aircraft and inspects your log books and finds a
> unreported major alteration will say that ignorance of the law isn't
> an excuse. Again, (see attached document paragraph 19).
>
> Anyone else see that I am missing the point, please explain your view.
> Just because your OL might have been written before this law, it
> doesn't allow you to make a major change (21.93) and not report it. I
> assure you that your insurance company wouldn't cover a loss with an
> unreported major change to your aircraft. I know that the FAR's are
> sometimes as clear as mud. But it is up to the builder/pilot to ask
> the FAA for clarification if you can't determine if a reg applies to
> you and your aircraft. Again I was told to always get it in writing by
> the FAA.
>
> Andy
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: REFLECTOR: Aircraft Condition Notice
>
>
>> Andy, you seem hell bent on missing the point.
>>
>> Andrew Ellzey wrote:
>>> The Revision date of pages 127 through 132 of 8130.2E is 7/22/2003.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>>> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Fw: REFLECTOR: Aircraft Condition Notice
>>>
>>>
>>>> paragraph 19 is the new, as of a year or so ago, suggestion to
>>>> FSDO's on what should be in the O.L.
>>>> In other words, if you were to get your O.L.s re issued or a new OL
>>>> issued the FSDO inspector "may" use this as a template. It doesn't
>>>> mean he or she will.
>>>>
>>>> Your requirement as an owner of an Experimental Homebuilt is to
>>>> follow the Operating Limitations issued to YOUR airplane. OL's
>>>> issued to other airplanes mean nothing to what your required to do..
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> Andrew Ellzey wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> See attached document 8130.2E page 130 paragraph (19). Maybe your
>>>>> guy didn't know his FAR's or just didn't want to be bothered.
>>>>> My thoughts.
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* HYTEC45 at aol.com <mailto:HYTEC45 at aol.com>
>>>>> *To:* reflector at tvbf.org <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2006 9:22 AM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: REFLECTOR: Aircraft Condition Notice
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 3/7/2006 6:50:38 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
>>>>> scott at tnstaafl.net <mailto:scott at tnstaafl.net> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> The FSDO
>>>>> inspector knew how to read the FAR's, and was very clear
>>>>> that
>>>>> the FAA
>>>>> in an official capacity didn't want to know about any
>>>>> inspections or
>>>>> changes I made to my plane. That was "my" responsibility and
>>>>> only "my"
>>>>> responsibility as spelled out in my O/L's and the FARS's.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not really concerned about the FAA, I'm concern is with the
>>>>> Insurance companies. If we throw them into the discussion, they
>>>>> are the ones who will kick back a claim if things are not
>>>>> documented and the operating instructions are followed.
>>>>> TEC
>>>>>
>>>>>
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