REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints

Scott Derrick scott at tnstaafl.net
Thu Jan 26 09:42:52 CST 2006


As far as AwlGrip goes the rep told me the UV protection is in the top 
coat, not their primer. You can use a UV primer under their primer but 
its not needed.

They've been painting fiberglass yachts for years and have the UV 
protection down pat.

Scott

Al Gietzen wrote:
>
> Terry;
>
> I guess if you asked 5 different people who chose 5 different paints, 
> they would all recommend the one they used for the same reasons that 
> they used it. Here are my opinions.
>
> One of the first things to check is the UV protection of the primer. 
> The US 545 epoxy primer (used by the factory) has UV protectors in it. 
> After using a urethane filler primer, and sanding most of it off, I 
> shot everything with US 545. UV protection for the fiberglass is done, 
> no matter what the topcoat.
>
> My understanding is that the polyurethane paints (Awl-grip, Emron, 
> others) are probably more durable than the acrylic urethane automotive 
> paints; however, I have friends who used the PPG acylic urethane 
> paints on their long-EZs 12-13 years ago, and the they have stood up 
> just fine.
>
> I also understand that the polyurethanes are more difficult to apply, 
> and more difficult to do any repair later.
>
> I chose to go with the PPG automotive paints (used on GM, FORD and 
> Diemler-Chrysler cars) because the color selection is immense, the PPG 
> dealer was close by, and I wanted a paint that I, an amateur, could 
> shoot on and make it look good.
>
> I chose the 2-stage (base coat – clear coat) because it is more 
> durable than single stage, makes a beautiful finish, and the metallics 
> that I wanted to use for trim only come in 2-stage.
>
> As Joe Ewen has outlined before on this forum, the PPG 2-stage offer 
> good finish correction options and repairability. I painted in my 
> garage, with marginal lighting. I had dust nibs, areas of mild 
> orange-peel, and a few runs in the clear coat. I was able to sand, 
> buff and polish all of those things away, and ended up with what I 
> consider a very nice finish (and of course I also like the paint scheme).
>
> With a paint booth and good equipment you should be able to avoid most 
> of the considerable time that I spent buffing out my paint job.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Al
>
> Subject: REFLECTOR: Auto Marine or Airplane paints
>
> Geez,
>
> When I started on this project in earnest about a year ago now, I wasted
>
> a lot of time reading tool catalogs. If I was smart, I would have
>
> signed up for a speed reading course instead. What follows is a
>
> rambling rant with this question to the Reflector...why did you guys
>
> chose for or against auto paint over marine paint over airplane paint?
>
> Sherman Williams, PPG, Akzo-Nobel they all have car, boat, and airplane
>
> products.
>
> For tonight at least my inclination is a nothing exotic, mid priced,
>
> run-the-mill automotive paint unless someone out there would caution
>
> against it. Reasons include cost and worries about the product
>
> experience of the painter and the tools at his disposal. (I am using the
>
> body shop next door to where I am building which will shoot anything I
>
> want in a regular spray booth big enough to fit the fuselage section.).
>
> I can use high VOC polyurethanes here in SC, and these products are said
>
> to be more results friendly, so I could go with marine or airplane lines
>
> if I saw the value to it.
>
> For the conversation, here's some terms I have learned recently. "Top
>
> coatings" are referred to in the auto world as base coat & clear coat
>
> systems. Sometimes these "top coatings" require a given type of
>
> undercoating, sometimes 320 grit sandpaper is enuf to make any
>
> undercoating compatible with a topcoat product. Obviously aftermarket
>
> autobody repair products can't be fussy. (Read the pdf's).
>
> http://www.lesonalna.com/ Under the Akzo-Nobel auto line of products, I
>
> used Utech for undercoating and anticipate using Lesonal products for
>
> topcoatings. I called the Lesonal product line and was told among other
>
> things that (in general terms) the higher up the price range in their
>
> products (Sikens product line) the fancier the end result, but less
>
> user-unfriendly regards application. (OR) It could also mean that you
>
> are looking at newer more environmentally friendly chemicals, which are
>
> required in Europe as much as in the USA. As a aside, clear coats do
>
> have the UV properties at least in the Lesonal line. The colored base
>
> coating of their topcoat systems do not have the UV protection.
>
> Airplane topcoats, JetGlo as example, can be applied without clear coats
>
> so UV issues are different.
>
> Akzo-Nobel is a very big multi-national org, based in Holland somewhere.
>
> Ronnie Brown used their marine Awlgrip on his bird. I am looking at
>
> Lesonal which is one of their auto paint lines. Alumigrip is in their
>
> airplane line, and it used extensively in GA certified stuff.
>
> http://www.akzonobelaerospace.com/products/category_selection.aspx?id=Po
>
> lyurethane%20Topcoats
>
> Further I have learned that nobody's auto/boat/airplane paint sales
>
> departments are not crossed trained, so we all are left to our collected
>
> wisdom.
>
> Anybody have any thoughts on auto vs marine vs airplane?
>
> Terry
>
> HISTORY
>
> If I helps future generations, below is more detail on what we have done
>
> to date.
>
> At Hangar 18 we started w/ a "primer-surfacer" and did the sand out and
>
> patch fill routine, until one day we said "enuf is enuf." (Actually I
>
> got to that point way before M. Collier did.) Then we sprayed on a
>
> final "primer-sealer" coat. All this was done just in the shop w/ good
>
> ventilation, but no spray booth. These are two different products and
>
> both are referred to by Akzo-Nobel as "under coatings."
>
> http://www.akzonobelcarrefinishes.net/default.asp?sid=65395&pid=420
>
> This was good stuff. Not too costly. Hangar 18 has painted about 5
>
> airplanes with it and had good success. Here are the details.
>
> The first sanding of the exterior surfaces is w/ 40 to 80 grit. Then we
>
> rolled (not sprayed) on 2 coats of UTECH U2K1 Primer with stock
>
> activator being A2K4. Watch out, product labeling seemed to change.
>
> Primer bought later just was labeled as 2K, but with a "product code" of
>
> P2K1. The web site had it as 2K100. Rolling as opposed to spraying
>
> this first coat forces the paint into all the little pin holes. Then it
>
> is guide coated, which is just a very light misting of diluted black
>
> acrylic water/based artist paint. This allows us to see undulations as
>
> we sand. We used long sanding boards now about 12 to 14 inches long.
>
> The grit of the sandpaper gradually goes up to 180 at the end. After
>
> the roller coats are sanded out, we do it again. This 2nd time just one
>
> spray coat of the same stuff is sprayed on. Guide coated again and
>
> worked with 180 grit paper. It helped that this first primer surfacer
>
> had a slight coloring in it.so that the last "primer-sealer" coat (UTECH
>
> E366 and the hardener is E375)which was white-white could be seen as a
>
> dif color as it was sprayed on. This helps the sprayer see what is
>
> happening-at least for the first sealer coat. Two coats of sealer were
>
> applied.
>
> End.
>
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