REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
steve korney
s_korney at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 16 20:07:31 CST 2006
Ronnie.....
You must weight a lot more then me.....................Just joking.
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ron Brown" <romott at adelphia.net>
Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:30:17 -0500
I disagree. After I moved my actuator forward about 3/8 inch, now my pitch
trim works great. With the original "?" spring - no cutting nor mods.
I have reinstalled the sparrow strainer, per the plans. I had removed it
after painting this past summer, but I liked the added stability the
strainer provided, so I am putting it back on.
Flew great - holds altitude quite well, take off is per the factory training
1" down for single pilot, 2" down for two people up front. I can trim for
single pilot cruise and do a high speed descent hands off. Tail of elevator
is up about 1/4" inch at 165 knot cruise.
Ronnie Brown
173 Elite RG - 200 HP Lycoming, Catto Prop 66" dia 70" pitch (pitched for
operating off a 3000' runway at 800' MSL. 215 hours and LOVING IT!!!!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Ellzey" <ajlz72756 at yahoo.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>Rene,
>
>You seem to be the only person that is saying that you aren't having trim
>problems. Do you have any secrets that you would like to tell everyone as
>to how you rigged your canard?
>
>Andy
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Rene Dugas" <dugasd at bellsouth.net>
>To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:56 PM
>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>
>
>>John,
>>Two inches up seems awfully high from what I have heard over the past 6
>>years of reflector monitoring. My XL RG at 174 economy cruise trailing
>>edge is up 1/8th inch. Stall is about 65 knots No VG's. At 190 knots
>>TE is up maybe 1/4th inch. At 210 knots in a slight dive it is not up
>>even 1/2 inch. I take off pilot only with TE down 1" with 100 #'s over
>>gross 2800 pounds it is down 2 to 2.5 inches(just reference numbers.
>>Rene'
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>>Behalf Of John Dibble
>>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:56 PM
>>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>>
>>I think the need for down trim is just a function of cg and speed.
>>Since I'm at my
>>aft cg limit (actually beyond the limit according to the standard
>>Velocity
>>calculations), I will need more trim than if I was not so aft cg. My
>>guess is I have
>>about 2" elevator up at cruise.
>>
>>John
>>
>>Alex Balic wrote:
>>
>>>Hmmm, Well, probably a good idea to keep the incidence as is then, but
>>I
>>>think that it is a bit unusual for you to need so much down trim in
>>cruise-
>>>maybe a smaller/no strainer would work best for you- how much actual
>>up
>>>elevator do you have at top cruise?
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>>On
>>>Behalf Of John Dibble
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:19 PM
>>>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>>>
>>>Alex,
>>>Thanks, but when solo, my canard barely stalls, more like a mush. I'm
>>>concerned that
>>>less incidence might put me in the deep stall mode. Besides, the
>>weight is
>>>just a
>>>temporary thing anyway. I'm currently getting 180-182kn with my
>>Franklin/IVO
>>>and I
>>>hope to get a few kn more once the trim issue is resolved and I can
>>use full
>>>power.
>>>
>>>Alex Balic wrote:
>>>
>>> > John-
>>> > In lieu of adding the weight- you might think about dropping the
>>canard
>>> > incidence about a degree- will give you more speed too...
>>> >
>>> > Alex
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>>On
>>> > Behalf Of John Dibble
>>> > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:09 PM
>>> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>>> >
>>> > Steve,
>>> > I have one installed. I need to check, but I believe it wroks
>>against the
>>> > spring, so
>>> > I guess I need to reverse it. How much work is involved to do that?
>>> >
>>> > Scott B - I believe you mentioned that reversing the strainer could
>>cause
>>> > instability. How can I flight test for this?
>>> >
>>> > In the meantime, I plan to add 20lb to the nose, so I won't have to
>>use
>>>the
>>> > full trim
>>> > adjustment at cruise.
>>> >
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> > steve korney wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > A lite spring and a external trim tab would solve that
>>problem.....
>>>Like
>>> > a
>>> > > sparrow strainer
>>> > >
>>> > > Best... Steve
>>> > >
>>> > > ----Original Message Follows----
>>> > > From: John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com>
>>> > > Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>><reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> > > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>><reflector at tvbf.org>
>>> > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>>> > > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:28:10 -0600
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, that sounds like a good guess. For the entire flight either
>>the
>>> > > autopilot or
>>> > > myself was adding a little extra pressure to maintain level
>>flight.
>>>After
>>> > I
>>> > > got out
>>> > > of the plane I pushed down on the elevator a little. Maybe that
>>is what
>>> > > made it work
>>> > > again. I'll check it out. But wouldn't pulling back on the stick
>>also
>>>do
>>> > > the same
>>> > > thing? Or am I not understanding this right?
>>> > >
>>> > > Scott - It took a lot of force and of course the farther I pulled
>>back,
>>> > the
>>> > > stronger
>>> > > the force. It felt like I might break something. I suppose you
>>could
>>> > trim
>>> > > your
>>> > > elevator all the way up and feel the force to pull the stick back
>>to
>>> > > neutral.
>>> > >
>>> > > John
>>> > >
>>> > > Alex Balic wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > The pitch trim jack screw has an internal "switch" that turns
>>it off
>>>in
>>> > > the
>>> > > > particular direction of travel that would bottom it out-
>>possibly
>>>this
>>> > is
>>> > > > just slightly out or the contact is burned, hard to tell- not
>>sure if
>>> > you
>>> > > > could even open it up to check that - you might want to do some
>>> > > > experimenting- see if you run it all of the way to the bottom
>>and you
>>> > > force
>>> > > > it if it might move just a bit more and loose contact
>>internally,
>>>after
>>> > > > relieving pressure, apply pressure in the opposite direction-
>>might
>>> > move
>>> > > > back just a tiny bit to regain contact again- just a
>>guess......
>>> > > >
>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
>>[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]
>>>On
>>> > > > Behalf Of John Dibble
>>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:46 AM
>>> > > > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>>> > > > Subject: REFLECTOR: Pitch Trim Mystery
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Seems like when the Reflector has a what-if discussion, soon
>>after
>>> > > someone
>>> > > > has to go
>>> > > > out and experience it. I guess the pitch trim failure had my
>>name on
>>> > it.
>>> > > > Last night
>>> > > > I flew 1.7 hrs at 180 kn with the pitch trim pegged at down
>>trim. I
>>> > cut
>>> > > > power just
>>> > > > enough to descend at 500 fpm and kept the trim pegged. At 5
>>miles
>>>out
>>> > I
>>> > > > slowed to get
>>> > > > set up for landing and noticed the pitch up trim wasn't
>>working.
>>> > > > Fortunately I've
>>> > > > flown at night enough, so that that didn't add much to the
>>problem.
>>>I
>>> > > had a
>>> > > > 5000 ft
>>> > > > runway and a direct 10kn headwind which was a good thing.
>>Didn't
>>>know
>>> > > how
>>> > > > long my arm
>>> > > > would hold out so I took the fastest way in and kept my speed
>>up to
>>> > 90kn.
>>> > > > Wasn't sure
>>> > > > if I could hold it off at 70. The landing was a little rough,
>>but
>>>I've
>>> > > done
>>> > > > worse.
>>> > > > Today I checked it out and the trim is working fine. Can
>>anyone tell
>>> > me
>>> > > > what
>>> > > > happened? I have fuses and no CBs so it wasn't that.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > John
>>> > > >
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>>
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>
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