No subject
Sun Dec 17 12:52:53 CST 2006
static-runup, it sounds to me like the glazed brakes or contamination of =
the
brake pads.
=20
SB
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Hiroo Umeno <mailto:humeno at microsoft.com> =20
To: Velocity Aircraft <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org> Owners and Builders =
list=20
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Brake authority
=20
I had a situation this weekend that heightened the "pucker factor" a =
bit.
=20
It was a rather warm day (80 or so at sea level) and I landed at a =
3400ft
long. Upon touchdown, I braked more firmly than normal since it was a =
bit
shorter a strip than normal. About mid-way down the strip, I noticed =
that
the rate of deceleration has decreased a bit. I used the full length of =
the
3400ft to get it stopped and turned off the active. The parking was at =
the
other end of the field so I taxied back. It was probably about 5 =
minutes in
taxi and after getting to the other end of the 3400ft strip, I suddenly
realized that I could only turn left. To make matter worse, once I got =
the
nose cocked left, I could not straighten it out, either. I had to shut
down, push the plane to the ramp, let the brakes cool off, then taxi.
=20
Now, I've always had an impression that the braking on my plane was =
"softer"
than other planes I have flown in the past. For example, on the Pipers =
with
castering nose gears, I could make a "pin-point turn" by locking one =
wheel
or another by standing on the brake. Not on my plane. I have the let =
the
plane start rolling and then nudge the nose over gradually. Also at =
run-up,
I can barely keep it from creeping forward at higher RPMs.
=20
As I have the standard wing and fuselage (SUV), I have the Matco brakes. =
My
understanding is that the Cleveland upgrade is only necessary on the XL
class aircraft.
=20
How much brake effectiveness should I expect on these Matcos? I am =
starting
to think I might have an air bubble or two in my lines.
=20
Hiroo
_____ =20
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’m about to start my taxi =
testing.
Could someone give a quick rundown on how to condition new brake pads =
and rotors?</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Darrell</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Laurence Coen<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 04, =
2007 7:12
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Velocity Aircraft =
Owners and
Builders list<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: REFLECTOR: =
Brake
authority</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hiroo,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have a SE/RG Franklin =
with Matco
brakes. I do not have the toe brakes. I try to make the 1400 =
ft
turn off and if that doesn't work there is a 1600 ft exit. If I am =
high
and hot I have to coast to the 3000 ft exit. If this happens I =
have to
add power to exit the runway promptly. The total length is 4100 =
feet and
I have never had to use that much. I understand that you have a =
Franklin
with a fixed pitch prop. A Lycoming will idle at about 600 RPM but =
the
Franklin has a range of 750-950 RPM so you are turning your prop as much =
as 300
RPM faster than a Lycoming driver and are still in the normal range for =
your
engine. In addition, a constant pitch prop set to flat pitch will =
provide
greater drag than your prop. An experiment that you can try is to =
pull
the red knob to idle cutoff when the nose gear touches and I think you =
will
stop about 1000 ft shorter. I have NEVER had hot brakes during
taxi. Taxi should be touch and release, never drag a brake to =
correct for
a cross wind. Anybody with a Velocity will tell you that starting =
from a
stand still with a cocked nose wheel is a bear. That's =
normal.
Here's why. Your gear are about 3' from the centerline of thrust =
and the
nose gear is about 9' from the mains. For a thrust of 100 LBS =
there is
about 33 LBS side load on the nose gear because you are at a 3:1 =
mechanical
disadvantage. On a Tiger the disadvantage is 1.25:1 which means at =
the
same thrust there is a 80 LBS side load on the nose gear. That's =
2.5 times
what you get on a Velocity.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>By the way, I have never
seen a Piper with a castering nose gear. I have flown a =
J-3
Cub, Tri-Pacer and flown a Cherokee for 16 years. Even the Cub had =
a
steerable tail wheel.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The retract has an =
advantage in that
there is good air flow over the brakes. I hope this is of some
help. I also think that 2500 feet of runway should be enough if =
you hit
it right. Don White used to operate out of an airport in Buffalo =
NY with
a 2600 ft runway.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Larry =
Coen</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>N136LC</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>SE/RG Franklin =
IVO</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message =
----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D'font-color:black'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:humeno at microsoft.com" =
title=3D"humeno at microsoft.com">Hiroo Umeno</a>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span><=
/font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org" title=3D"reflector at tvbf.org">Velocity =
Aircraft
Owners and Builders list</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday,
June 04, 2007 5:17 AM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</s=
pan></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
REFLECTOR: Brake authority</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Scott,</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thank you =
for the
insight. I am starting to think that my brakes might be
“sub-standard” in that perhaps there is a trapped bubble =
somewhere.
I will bleed it again and see if that makes a difference. I will =
check
for glazing as well while the pants are off.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>My =
transition
training was done by Steve Murphree, I believe he is a factory =
authorized and
we did go through the airspeeds quite a bit.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hiroo</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#1f497d"
face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Scott Baker<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 04, =
2007 10:10
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Velocity Aircraft =
Owners and
Builders list<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: REFLECTOR: =
Brake
authority</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hiroo -</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The Matco W600XT brakes are =
very
effective for SUV, SE, LW/173 model Velocity aircraft.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I don't recall if you have =
been to
the factory flight transition training program - to learn the importance =
of
airspeed control on during landing.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We recommend an approach =
speed of
1.3 x Vs ...which translates somewhere around 85-knots for fully loaded
aircraft and around 80-knots when lightly loaded.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>On a 3000' runway plan on =
touching
down within the first 500' to avoid the need for heavy =
braking.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Fixed gear aircraft with =
wheel pants
should also consider venting the pants to allow ram-air cooling of the =
brake
discs.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Also check the engine idle =
speed -
and confirm you are able to pull the engine power to full-idle during
landing. If the engine idle is high (by 100 rpm or more), this =
will add a
lot to the landing distance. Failing to completely close the =
throttle
during landing also places extra demands on braking.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Make sure the brake were =
'broke-in'
correctly and that the discs are not glazed.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>From your note describing =
trouble
keeping the aircraft stopped during static-runup, it sounds to me like =
the
glazed brakes or contamination of the brake pads.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>SB</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message =
----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:humeno at microsoft.com" =
title=3D"humeno at microsoft.com">Hiroo Umeno</a>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span><=
/font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:reflector at tvbf.org" title=3D"reflector at tvbf.org">Velocity =
Aircraft
Owners and Builders list</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday,
June 04, 2007 11:57 AM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</s=
pan></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> REFLECTOR:
Brake authority</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I had a situation this weekend that =
heightened the
“pucker factor” a bit.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>It was a rather warm day (80 or so at sea =
level) and I
landed at a 3400ft long. Upon touchdown, I braked more firmly than =
normal
since it was a bit shorter a strip than normal. About mid-way down =
the
strip, I noticed that the rate of deceleration has decreased a =
bit. I
used the full length of the 3400ft to get it stopped and turned off the =
active.
The parking was at the other end of the field so I taxied back. It =
was
probably about 5 minutes in taxi and after getting to the other end of =
the
3400ft strip, I suddenly realized that I could only turn left. To =
make
matter worse, once I got the nose cocked left, I could not straighten it =
out,
either. I had to shut down, push the plane to the ramp, let the =
brakes
cool off, then taxi.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Now, I’ve always had an impression that =
the
braking on my plane was “softer” than other planes I have =
flown in
the past. For example, on the Pipers with castering nose gears, I =
could
make a “pin-point turn” by locking one wheel or another by =
standing
on the brake. Not on my plane. I have the let the plane =
start
rolling and then nudge the nose over gradually. Also at run-up, I =
can
barely keep it from creeping forward at higher RPMs.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>As I have the standard wing and fuselage =
(SUV), I have
the Matco brakes. My understanding is that the Cleveland upgrade =
is only
necessary on the XL class aircraft.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>How much brake effectiveness should I expect =
on these
Matcos? I am starting to think I might have an air bubble or two =
in my
lines.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hiroo</span></font></p>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>_______________________________________________<br>
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector<br>
<br>
Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery<br>
user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose<br>
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail<br>
Check old archives: =
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>_______________________________________________<br>
To change your email address, visit
http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector<br>
<br>
Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery<br>
user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose<br>
Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail<br>
Check old archives: =
http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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