REFLECTOR: Accident report - SQ2000

[Carruth, Joel L]

I agree that the seats are a somewhat flimsy. However, correct me if I missed something here, but from the last picture (100-3047) of the cockpit, it appears that the hinges are still intact - at least not broken. It looks more like the #10 screws were either sheared off or pulled from the aluminum hard point. 

Assuming you stay with the factory seat (less $), it seems that the following would be necessary:
1) Instead of #10s, use some AN-3s. With a doubler+nutplate on the inside.
2) Extra glass (3 BID??, UNI?) moving up the sides covering the aluminum attach point and doubler.  Perhaps some UNI going from side-to-side at shoulder blade height. 

Probably not as good as an engineered seat, but it will definitely help. At some G-loading it's the body that would break anyway and not the seat. 

Any other reinforcement ideas?

Joel Carruth
Lockheed Martin 
JSF - Pilot System Software
W: (817) 763-4337
Fax: (817) 777-8378
joel.l.carruth at lmco.com

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:21 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Accident report - SQ2000

There are seats for race cars available that are very light and designed 
for high speed car crashes. 

I ave an 97 Std. and the seats are part of the air frame.  I can't see 
them coming apart, but I also can't seem them offering any crush to 
lessen thr impact.

Scott

Chuck Jensen wrote:

>The solution that was put into my plane was seats out of a Corvette.  They are low profile (to enable the low-slung Vette look) and seem to be substantial, yet don't seem to weight much.  Semi-reclining type auto seats may be worth a look.
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Martino
>Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:37 PM
>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Accident report - SQ2000 
>
>This comes at the exact time that I pulled my seats because I decided they are flimsy.  One day while flying in chop ... I felt my self being bounced a couple of times up against the seat back ... and I did not like the feeling.  The seat back seems weak.
>
>
>I am molding buckets that attach to the floor directly.  The "buckets" will be lined with a system of shock absorbing material (like in a helmet) with memory foam on top.
>
>The bucket is one piece bottom and back, with some flex ... but no "joints".  It will cradle my body somewhat like a clam-shell.  I call it a seat helmet or "pod".
>
>I totally agree with many accident findings that forced landings and rapid descents often turn fatal due to inadequate restraint, shock absorption and seat structure.  I hope to overcome these weaknesses.
>
>Tom Martino  
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On Behalf Of Jim Sower
>Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:10 AM
>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Accident report - SQ2000 [heur]
>
>I seem to recall that Paul bought his seats from Velocity - along with 
>some other things. I never liked the seat structure but accepted that, 
>like spam cans, the seat has little or nothing to do with restraint - 
>the harness being bolted to the airframe. I further assumed that the 
>seat structure would crush on vertical impact and therefore be of some 
>benefit in absorbing energy. I'm skeptical about the plane springing 
>backwards as I am about intimations that he was flying out of limits aft CG.
>
>I assumed that the Velocity restraint structure had been tested 
>satisfactorily ... Jim S.
>
>Al Gietzen wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Some of you may have seen this on other venues. This is not happy 
>>reading but I post it here because of one factor that relates to our 
>>airplanes - the seats.
>>
>>You can skip the rest of the report, but note that the lack of 
>>seatback support is cited as a cause in the pilots death. The seat is 
>>essentially the same as the Velocity. From the first time I saw the 
>>Velocity seats I was very concerned that is provides very little 
>>support against strong forces vertically or from the rear. Once the 
>>back support breaks there is no longer a restraint system.
>>
>>And speaking of restraint system, I also pressed the factory years ago 
>>for some test of the 5/16" bolt threaded into ¼" aluminum block as an 
>>adequate seat belt attachment; particularly for the inboard side of 
>>the front seat.
>>
>>The analysis of the 4 canardians who examined the wreckage of Paul 
>>Conner's aircraft is now available at:
>>
http://www.cozybuilders.org/N2992_Accident_Eval/

>>
>>Al
>>
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