REFLECTOR: RE: Reflector Digest, Vol 16, Issue 25
Terry Miles
terrence_miles at hotmail.com
Thu Sep 8 19:45:55 CDT 2005
Thanks, Mark. I've got a short reach. I've been working on seat
placement the last couple of days. Close enuf to the main panel and
rudder pedals (in the factory recline angle) is too much for me at 5'8".
I am likely putting a spacer to move the pedals forward and extending
the aluminum block that sets the seatpan-to-seatback angle. I think
I'll stay w/ my SB on the stick grip for now. I bought Infinity's relay
cicuit board so I can always hook something else up if I hit on your
experience too. I'll remember to keep my thumb away from it in cruise!
Thanks for the input
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Riley
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:54 PM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: RE: Reflector Digest, Vol 16, Issue 25
Regarding the Infinity stick grip:
I built an Elite RG with speed brake and put about 100 hours on it. ( I
sold it and am starting an XL5) I would recommend against using one of
the top toggle switches for the speed brake. I found that I was
constantly bumping the switch and deploying the speed brake, especially
in bumps at higher speeds where I didn't want to. Radio flip flop or
ident or even landing light might be more appropriate. If you do decide
to do the brake switch on top, make sure the switch deploying it is
momentary on although I think Velocity advocates all the way up or all
the way down. It really wasn't all that hard to use the grip from the
co-pilot seat either.
-----Original Message-----
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Behalf Of reflector-request at tvbf.org
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:18 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: Reflector Digest, Vol 16, Issue 25
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Today's Topics:
1. Fire Retardant Paint & Detectors (Chuck Harbert)
2. Turbo oil lines (Chuck Harbert)
3. Infinity Stick Grips (Terry Miles)
4. RE: Grand Rapids EFIS (Terry Miles)
5. Re: Infinity Stick Grips (HYTEC45 at aol.com)
6. Re: Oil lines and ground wire. (Scott Derrick)
7. Re: Infinity Stick Grips (Jim Agnew)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:41:38 -0700
From: "Chuck Harbert" <c.harbert at comcast.net>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Fire Retardant Paint & Detectors
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <002a01c5b427$3eba7b20$990ba043 at 9B6B411>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Scott, I saw a bunch of mfgs of intumescent fire retardant paints, but
the
following outdfit had both UL and FM (I worked for Factory Mutual for 34
yrs) approvals using the latest and toughest tests, so I'd use theirs if
it's available. You need less than a gallon, for the engine bay. I'm not
saying that the others won't work fine (I used Ocean from Aircraft
Spruce),
but they didn't have the testing approvals.
The Eclipse halon substitute system looks very promising. I'll send the
article to FM labs for comment. Unfortunately, I think it will cost a
lot of
money for Eclipse's proprietary system (if you could even get one).
I don't think an ionization detector would work in the engine
compartment
because of the high airflow, but a simple temp probe (400-500 degF)
would
tell you if you're on fire. You could conceivably use an ionization
sensor
in the cabin, but you'll know about the same time the detector tells
you, so
I wouldn't go to the effort.
Chuck
> ------------------------------
>
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toll free (888)-990-FF88
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Fax (415)-459-6055
info at firefree.com
>
> This looks interesting
>
> http://www.hytechsales.com/fire_proofing.html
>
> Scott
>
>> At 12:09 AM 9/7/05, you wrote:
>>
>>>Someone asked about UV detectors and yes, they don't work on smoke.
>>>The industry uses ionazation (aka products of combustion) detectors
>>>which will do both flame and smoke.
>>
>> Do you have any part numbers or suppliers?
>>
>>> Fortunately, the fire did little damage because the interior of the
>>> engine compartment was painted with fire retardant
>>> (intumescent) paint. I would highly recomend you do this especially
>>> to your wing roots.
>>
>> Same question - what did you use?
>>
>>>They now have a couple of Halon substitutes, but they're very
>>>expensive and take twice the volume.
>>
>> There's a new one on the horizon - if it's as good as it's claimed,
>> it will be VERY impressive
>>
>> http://www.eclipseaviation.com/inthenews/detail_05.htm?content_id=875
>>
>> In the meantime, the best source for Halon extinguishers I've found
>> is on Ebay. As a safety obsessive, I have a halon and a foam
>> extinguisher in every room in my house, and in the trunk of every
>> car. (and yes, people ask why I have 2 extinguishers in my kitchen.
>> I don't show them the bedroom closets)
>>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:05:53 -0700
From: "Chuck Harbert" <c.harbert at comcast.net>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Turbo oil lines
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Cc: Steve Murphree <pi151 at aol.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c5b42a$9e50d1d0$990ba043 at 9B6B411>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I used steel for the turbo oil supply line, but I made sure it was very
well
restrained to avoid flexing at the inlet and outlet fittings. The outlet
drain can be steel, but generally it has a flex section in the line.
Braided
steel lines are okay, but don't get too close to the exhaust pipes as
they
get red hot. I definitely would not use aluminum pipe on any of this.
Sometimes scavenge pumps have a hard time keeping primed if the turbo is
too
far below the pump. and they usually use a sping loaded check valve in
the
supply line to avoid draining oil into the turbo when the engine is
notrunning.
There are several good books on proper supply lines for turbos (Corky
Bell's
Maximum Boost & Hugh McIness Turbocharging), and you can look at factory
turbo engines for ideas.
Chuck H
-------------------
One of my concerns is the tubing feeding oil to the turbo. I'm using
steel braided lines now. I don't think that firesleeving them will
necessarily do any good, because I would expect these hoses to be
failure points, and firesleeve would just get filled with oil possibly
making the problem worse.
I've thought about using aluminum lines, but am not comfortable with the
possibility of work hardening and cracking.
What other options are there?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:10:56 -0400
From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
Subject: REFLECTOR: Infinity Stick Grips
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV4268E8EBC10F25FB9DBD4F2990 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Since I'm in the questioning mood.....
I just today put in the order for one of those Infinity Stick grips.
http://www.infinityaerospace.com/
The bad news about them is that it is hand specific, so any right seat
pilots have a rather contorted stick. I have heard that someone has a
mod to the control stick that allows for a second grip specifically for
the right seater (or instructor) that mounts somehow to the main shaft
at the angle of to the right.
Anybody know?
Also, here are my picks on the infinity.
1. Coolie hat for pitch and roll
2. Squeeze Trigger (front face) for PTT
3. Toggle on the top to left of coolie - up/off/momentary down for
speed brake 4. Button: Thumb side half way down the grip - Cabin
O'head Lights...used for "Quick! Where's the map? What intersection
did he say?" 5. Button: front face base of grip - autopilot disconnect
6. Toggle to the right of coolie - Radio flip-flop.
.and I have flip flopped trying to decide what's best. What's everyone
else done? Anybody see any obvious misses here?
Thanks,
Terry
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:10:57 -0400
From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids EFIS
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV18774CB5919A87E95F57CDF2990 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
My thanks to everyone who replied. Esp to Dave Dent for the details and
explanations. I think I'm gun shy after too many years in old beat up
freighters with wandering compass cards and replaced flux valves. I'm
going w/ Dave's (and other's) suggestion and putting the magnetometer in
the stake. Perhaps attached to a platform and if I can make the
platform a removable inspection plate w/ counter sunk SS screws then all
the better to ease my worry wortism.
While I think of it. At Osh I happened to be around one of the TruTrak
techs who warned me not the mount their autopilot control head on any
angled surface--like the radio stack area that we have. TruTrak is
coming out with a rectangular control head. Those in the planning
stages like me: Be sure not to mount the TT autopilot on the angled
portion of the panel.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Dave Dent
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:06 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids EFIS
Terry I have installed two of these systems now and in both cases I have
installed the magnetometer in the right strake.
The best has been as far out as you can put it. I built a small __----__
platform and leveled it as far fwd as I could in the end of the strake.
Then put a couple of SS nut plates in it to hold the unit to it. The
unit
can be off a couple of degrees and it will align its self during
calibration
but try you best to align it as straight as you can. I used a small
laser
and then aligned it with the arrow on the AHRS that is mounted on the
canard.
I got the AHRS aligned with a level and eye balled as straight as I
could.
I leveled the AHRS with the water line of the aircraft. I just had some
small one inch angles and glassed them to the top of the canard at the
right spacing for the holes in the AHRS.
I ran the wires from the magnetometer to the AHRS away from any coax
cables,
as best I could. I went down the middle of the keel, on the Velo. On
the
other plane (Cozy) I had to run them near the coax cables but separated.
I
found this best. Do not tie them together. The object is to keep the
magnetometer at least nine inches away from any steel moving parts. I
have
put these units right on carbon fiber and they never gave me any
problems.
Even the early units that came out, back in 1993. You can buy these
units
now for less then ten bucks and mount them most anywhere. They are all
on a
small chip and a board.
I may have some pictures of how I did this some where and can send them
to
you if you like. If you have anymore questions about the GRT units I
will
be glad to help you. Mine have been working great with Zero problems.
The
software updates are as simple as plugging in a USB memory smart stick.
I
have found a remote cable set up so you can even have the USB remote
from
the back of the EFIS so you can plug in your memory stick at the face of
you
panel. I will be doing this for both my JPI and the EFIS for recording
and
updating. I did this on the Cozy.
On the Velo I mounted the EIS remote on the canard and have it slaved to
the
EFIS. I don't like the looks of it. I have a direct reading oil
pressure
and tach and fuel press gauges so I don't need the other showing. But
if
you do want to have the EIS on the panel I have a source for a real nice
face plate to go on it. It cost $100 bucks and it dresses it up a lot.
I
just don't need it.
Dave
N32XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Miles" <terrence_miles at hotmail.com>
To: "'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 5:40 AM
Subject: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids EFIS
>
> Hi Y'all,
>
> I am in the final plans point on installing a Grand Rapids EFIS. It
> will be a single AHRS mounted on canard, dual screen in front of the
> pilot...side by side. I plan to mount the EIS on the radio stack to
> (hopefully) minimize the times I have to split the PFD or Map displays
> to deal w/ engine or fuel issues.
>
> Here's my question: Where to mount the magnetometer. Ya know, it has
> the ususal mounting guidelines: away from ferrous, moving parts,
> magnetic energy fields. I have narrowed it to outboard on the strake,
> (wings have to come off to get it back out again)or in the cabin on
> the sidewall storage area which is way more accessible but subject to
> being attacked by a carelessly stowed lap top or what have you. It
> must be orientated in the direction of flight. 5.25 long, 2.75 wide,
> 1.125 high. Maybe the upper aft cabin ceiling?
>
> Anybody w/ experience on this? Can I bury this baby in the wing and
> not have to worry about it?
>
> Terry
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:56:34 EDT
From: HYTEC45 at aol.com
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Infinity Stick Grips
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Message-ID: <e4.70662fb7.30519d12 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
In a message dated 9/8/2005 6:20:35 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
terrence_miles at hotmail.com writes:
4. Button: Thumb side half way down the grip - Cabin O'head
Lights...used for "Quick! Where's the map? What intersection did he
say?"
5. Button: front face base of grip - autopilot disconnect
Here is what I have been using for 11 years. My grip is a "real"
military
F-4 grip though.
Button 4, Auto pilot disconnect. Finger always there anyway ( button 5
on
the military grip is a somewhat hard push for the little finger,
especially
to
hold for any time).
Button 5, Starter. This way in the event you need to "air re-start"
you
can
manipulate the engine controls while activating the starter and still
fly
the plane (will it windmill?), plus, how many thieves could figure that
out?.
<<and I have flip flopped trying to decide what's best. What's
everyone else done?>>
That's the beauty of homebuilding, there is really no "what everyone
else
does". Don't forget the XM radio remote tuning;-)
Food for thought.
TEC
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:06:22 -0600
From: Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Oil lines and ground wire.
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <4320455E.20503 at tnstaafl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
I posted the following question on the aero-electric list
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Derrick"
<scott at tnstaafl.net>
>
>
>Hows your feeling about using 1/2" copper oil lines from my engine to
the
>nose cooler as a ground return?
The consensus of %100 of the folks who replied was that it was not only
a
bad idea but my plane would be a disaster waiting to happen. Stories of
arcing and the resulting conflagration from an oil fed fire abounded. I
was
somewhat taken aback, as I thought it was a good idea if implemented
correctly.
I then asked Bob Knuckles(of Aero-Electric fame) who monitors the list
to
comment. His reply follows..
>From Bob:
It's not a "new" idea. I had some long-ez builders using an aluminum
vacuum line as a ground return about 15 years ago. It would be
interesting
to see how many are still flying with that arrangement and what
prompted
any changes.
I think the risks are low IF integrity of the electrical connections
are high. This means sweat soldered, large area joints that would
assure both mechanical and electrical integrity of the conduit.
The drawing at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures//Conduit_Gnd.pdf
illustrates some techniques suggested for getting high currents onto
and
off of a copper conduit ground system. Similar techniques would apply
whether you ran wires or hot oil down the conduit.
Of course, the run of copper between electrical connections would
have
to be similarly robust in terms of fluid tightness and electrical
integrity.
Standard copper tube fittings sweat soldered together should do the
job.
There are probably a trainload of prohibitions with foundations
running
the gammut of regulatory mandates to sky-is-falling hysteria. But if
you
can bolt a wing on correctly, one should be able to build a run of
copper that
has similar integrity for electrons and hydrocarbons.
Bob . . .
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:14:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Agnew <jim_agnew_2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Infinity Stick Grips
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
Message-ID: <20050908141439.88889.qmail at web30805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
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