REFLECTOR: Leveling the plane

Fri Jun 17 00:38:20 CDT 2005

Scott,
My airplane is not nearly as fast as yours.  My takeoffs get dicey at 
around 3500' - 4000' DA.  Part of that is on me (overpropped 200 rpm, 
obese ~ 100# over my "fightin' weight").  As it stands, my plane won't 
do a yard over 150 kias, but some of that's due to prop and no pants.  I 
get conservative on high DA days and go to 80 - 85 kias since excessive 
elevator deflection produces hideous induced drag and can put the canard 
on the back side of the power curve and kind of trap me in ground 
effect.  So I'm whining some myself, but I don't think a reliable, 
convenient FRP reference is too much to ask.
But maybe I'm asking too much in that regard? ... Jim S.

Scott Derrick wrote:

> Jim,
>
> I'm right there with you in "I find myself in a marginal - if not 
> plumb dicey - takeoff situation much of the time."     I'd say "some 
> of the time" though.
> Living in the SW with a field elevation of 6500 ft compounds the problem.
>
> The fixed pitch prop is a big factor.  Our planes are so fast that its 
> "difficult" to build a prop that will do well on the relatively slow 
> take off and also push us along at 175+ knots. Density altitude comes 
> into play for some of us.
> The speed required for me to unstick the canard at takeoff can be 75 
> knots if I'm at forward CG, and thats with full up elevator!    I will 
> say that when I'm taking off at a near sea level airport my Velocity 
> gets up and goes..  Which is what the factory guys see almost all the 
> time.
>
> I know, I'm just whining about having my cake and eating it too.  When 
> I take off in the morning from GNT and land in near SFO to have a late 
> breakfast,  I realize what a damn fine airplane the Velocity is....
>
> Scott
>
> Jim Sower wrote:
>
>> I really didn't intend to stir up all this fuss and bother.  I'd 
>> thought that perhaps I was missing some simple reference.  Evidently 
>> I wasn't.  All I wanted was a reliable, convenient access to the 
>> FRP.  There doesn't seem to be one (perhaps it's just me being anal 
>> about this, but I don't regard wing templates that don't seem to fit 
>> all that well, using levels that seem to have come out of a box of 
>> Cracker Jacks, as reliable OR convenient).  My needs are modest:  
>> Being overpropped by about 200 rpm on my IO360 (that's on me and I'm 
>> in the process of addressing it) and routinely 70 - 80# over the 400# 
>> front seat limit (I'm addressing that too, but it takes more time :o) 
>> I find myself in a marginal - if not plumb dicey - takeoff situation 
>> much of the time.  I'm beginning to realize that fuselage attitude is 
>> trivial and that wing and canard incidence is what I'm actually 
>> interested in.  I've been spoiled by my EZ with its clearcut, simple 
>> canopy rail references.
>>
>> I'm looking for a reliable indication of my ground attitude (most 
>> particularly canard AoA) so that I can quantify whether and by how 
>> much I have to overcome a negative AoA in order to rotate.  It would 
>> be nice to know if, and by how much I might benefit by extracting my 
>> nose strut from all that structure (not a trivial task) and 
>> straightening it out a little to get cocked up enough to make 
>> rotation a little easier.
>>
>> Of course I could replace my sorry-assed Lyc with a 230 hp rotary, 
>> but that would involve rewiring pretty much the whole Switch/CB panel 
>> and be a MAJOR task by any standard.
>>
>> Guess I need to revisit my actual needs in terms of available 
>> resources ... Jim S.
>>
>> Scott Derrick wrote:
>>
>>> I built my gauge, at the time didn't know the factory had pre-built 
>>> ones..
>>>
>>> NMFlyer1 at aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had an odd thing happen with my wing incidence guage. After I 
>>>> built my wings, when I was getting ready to attach them to the 
>>>> plane I noticed that the incidence guage was warped.
>>>>  
>>>> I called the factory and asked if I could buy a new one. They said 
>>>> yes, but told me that many of them do that and it would still be 
>>>> accurate. I asked them to pacify me and send another anyway, which 
>>>> they did.
>>>>  
>>>> Once the new incidence guage showed up, I was a bit confused. They 
>>>> were not the same size. One of them was about 2" longer than the 
>>>> other. I called the factory and talked to Mark M. to find out what 
>>>> was up. ( I thought one of them may be for the small wing, another 
>>>> for the large wing). He had me measure them and then things got 
>>>> really strange.
>>>> My origonal wing jig was not the right size for anything! Mark said 
>>>> he really didnt know how that could happen, as they have a jig they 
>>>> build them in. It was determined that the new one was correct. I am 
>>>> glad I was anal enough to want to replace the warped jig because 
>>>> the origonal one would have been wrong.
>>>>  
>>>> I appreciate the factory humoring me on my first call and sending 
>>>> the jig anyway. They also did not charge me for the new jig.
>>>>  
>>>> So, if you have a bad feeling that a jig or piece is incorrect... 
>>>> follow through. It just might be something is not right.
>>>>  
>>>> Kurt
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>