REFLECTOR: Vortilions and/or VG's?

Wed Jul 20 22:52:01 CDT 2005

On my 173 FG Elite I have the vortilions but do not have lower winglets 
or VG's.

I find that below about 100kts I turn predominately with rudder and 
throw in a bit of aileron once I'm in the turn. Turning w/ only ailerons 
below 90kts usually results in some adverse yaw and nose wandering. The 
behavior on my 173 was quite different than the factory Velocity which 
had lower winglets, vortilions and VG's.

I typically shoot for 80-85 on final, and 80 knots when I start easing 
into touchdown somewhere around 70-75. On landing rollout the nose will 
nearly always drop around 70 knots, occassionally I can hold the nose 
off at 65 knots with just your's truly in the front.

I notice that in cross-wind or gusty conditions several behaviors, I'm 
sure related to pilot technique, or lack thereof!

On final, in gusty conditions I tend to get a bit of nose pitch 
oscillation at 80 knots, so I'll try to keep a few extra knots to ease 
my pain <G>. The oscillation is a bit more noticeable with a cross-wind 
from the right, could be just my imagination, perhaps it has something 
to do with the position of the pitot tube and static port on the left 
side, below the canard.

During the touchdown in gusty conditions, I will notice a bit of nose 
wander, as if the airplane wants to yaw into the wind.

 From everything I've read on the forum and other sources, the lower 
winglets and vortilions help with slow speed stability, while the VG's 
improve canard and wing effectiveness at low speeds, thereby reducing 
landing speeds and takeoff distances.

Cheers,

Gary

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>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. RE:  Vortilions and/or VG's? (steve korney)
>   2.  Fw: Threaded hole strength (Kufalk)
>   3. Re:  Fw: Threaded hole strength (HYTEC45 at aol.com)
>   4. RE:  Vortilions and/or VG's? (hoffman3 at erols.com)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:04:17 +0000
>From: "steve korney" <s_korney at hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Vortilions and/or VG's?
>To: reflector at tvbf.org
>Message-ID: <BAY101-F24FA413543F39EBB7834A0E7D70 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>The tape should be on the hinge side...
>
>
>
>Best... Steve
>
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen at dts9000.com>
>Reply-To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list <reflector at tvbf.org>
>To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Vortilions and/or VG's?
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:10:48 -0400
>
>Oh, no.  Not again?  I thought the aileron gap was supposed to be sealed
>from the underside, not the topside.  I sealed from the bottom side and
>believe I enjoyed noticeable speed gain but thought the aileron
>authority was noticeably reduce on slow approach.  Do I still have this
>wrong and the tape should be on the top and not the bottom?
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
>Behalf Of Jack Sheehan
>Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:07 AM
>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Vortilions and/or VG's?
>
>Yes I forgot about sealing the aileron gap. That makes a big
>difference. When I first sealed the gaps by tape on the upper surface
>I was using a white tape. On an approach for landing I heard a pop
>and felt an abrupt change in aileron control. I did not realize it at
>the time but the tape came off one wing and it was really noticable.
>I now use a 3M clear duct tape that has a reinforcing thread in it (
>bought in Lowe's) this stuff has been on for about two years a works
>great.
>--
>Jack Sheehan
>Executive Director
>National Consortium for Aviation Mobility (NCAM)
>Visit the following sites
>http://www.ncam-sats.org, http://www.sats2005.com, http://sats.nasa.gov
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:41:29 -0500
>From: "Kufalk" <kufalk at wi.rr.com>
>Subject: REFLECTOR: Fw: Threaded hole strength
>To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
>Message-ID: <002c01c58d63$06e0c640$47e5a718 at wi.rr.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> 
> What's stronger in tensile strength?
> 
> 1/4-20 thread taped into a 1/4" aluminum plate?
> 
> or
> 
> 1/2-13 thread taped into a 1/4" aluminum plate?
>
> 
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:00:51 EDT
>From: HYTEC45 at aol.com
>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Fw: Threaded hole strength
>To: reflector at tvbf.org
>Message-ID: <e1.17b55948.30100773 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>1/2-13.  Makeup torque is very important.
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>------------------------------
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>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:00:43 -0400
>From: "hoffman3 at erols.com" <hoffman3 at erols.com>
>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Vortilions and/or VG's?
>To: reflector at tvbf.org
>Message-ID: <380-22005732021043820 at M2W079.mail2web.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>I have Vortilons, VG, and lower winglets. In addition I have canard tips
>that turn downward. I like all four of them.
>
>Carl Hoffman
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Ron Brown romott at adelphia.net
>Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 07:25:31 -0400
>To: reflector at tvbf.org
>Subject: REFLECTOR: Vortilions and/or VG's?
>
>
>I am just about finished painting my 173 Elite RG.
>
>I have 170 hours of flight using only VG's - no vortilions installed.  I 
>removed the VG's to paint the plane.
>
>Anybody have any comments on flying without VG's or Vortilions?  Or if both 
>the Vortilions and VG's should be installed.
>
>My feeling is that my plane flew great with just VG's installed - but I 
>never flew it without VG's.  I installed them as soon as I got home from 
>factory Velocity transition training.  The trainer was a 173 and it had
>VG's 
>installed.  It flew GREAT!
>
>Thanks for your opinions!
>Ronnie 
>
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>End of Reflector Digest, Vol 14, Issue 53
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