REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS

Wed Jan 5 14:09:20 CST 2005

Doug, Burt designed and recommended cuffs for the VariEze and most of us who
were flying put them on, about 1979 IIRC. Later testing showed that the only
part of the cuff doing any good was the sharp edge that turned the outflow
back over the wing, so Burt recommended we take off the cuffs and install
the vortilons. As far as I know, vortilons are all that is now recommended. 
If I ever get my Velo finished, I will run vortilons and perhaps try the
trailing edge fences. I would not put on the cuffs,(but do put on vortilons)
but since you have the narrow chord wing, you should use the most
conservative cg limit. Just my opinion. Herb Sanders

> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Holub
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:52 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
> 
> Dan Maher redesigned the wing with more chord, so all wings shipped after
> 1991? don't need the cuffs. This is ancient history and probably doesn't
> apply to anyone else on the reflector. Sorry for any confusion.
> 
> Doug
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Millin" <amillin at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:37 AM
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
> 
> 
> > After studying the deep stall problem, Danny designed leading edge
> > extensions, "cuffs", for the wings.  This was a quick fix for flying
> > aircraft.  They went on the main wing only and I believe toward the
> outboard
> > portion of the wing.  They could be added to a completed wing without
> major
> > surgery.  They did what they were designed to do, but as Doug said, they
> > looked funky.
> >
> > After more review, I believe the factory had decided not to include them
> in
> > the kit.  If you do your home work and make sure your plane is flying in
> CG,
> > don't fly unapproved maneuvers (hammerhead, etc.), then a deep stall is
> very
> > hard to induce.
> >
> > There used to be "cuffs" on the elevator as well.  I believe their
> purpose
> > was to make a more docile landing though.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
> > Behalf Of Tom Martino
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:23 AM
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
> >
> >
> > What are leading edge cuffs???
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Douglas Holub [mailto:doug.holub at comcast.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:16 PM
> > To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
> >
> > I think that is why they installed the weight track (200 lbs. that could
> > move between the canard bulkhead and the firewall), but I am not aware
> > that
> > it was ever used to recover from a deep stall. Maybe I don't have all
> > the
> > facts. The May 1991 newsletter describes the experiments. The test pilot
> > was
> > able to induce a deep stall at c.g. = 118.5", but he recovered with full
> > power and full up elevator without having to move the weight.
> >
> > After reading that newsletter again, I've decided to add the leading
> > edge
> > cuffs to my wings. It's not going to slow the plane down that much, and
> > with
> > the cuffs they were never able to induce a deep stall all the way back
> > to
> > c.g. = 121". I wish they didn't look so funky.
> >
> > Doug
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
> >
> >
> > > Yes,  this was Maher's test pilot in Big Orange.
> > >
> > > After the experiance you mentioned, Danny installed the weight shift
> > track
> > > so they could deep stall the aircraft and then move the CG back to a
> > > forward position by cranking it forward, and then fly out of the
> > stall.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > > Sounds good, but I can't help thinking about that test pilot who
> > (after
> > > > many
> > > > attempts) was able to put the Velocity into a deep stall, and then
> > > > couldn't
> > > > undo it, even after adjusting the cg by climbing out on to the nose
> > of
> > the
> > > > aircraft. Here's the account from the April 1989 newsletter:
> > > >
> > > > "On March 30, while participating in aggravated stall maneuvers, the
> > test
> > > > pilot encountered a deep stall which resulted in 0 knots forward
> > airspeed,
> > > > and a descent rate of 1300 - 1500 fpm. This was approximately the
> > 37th
> > > > stall
> > > > attempted at this CG and configuration. Starting at 9000 feet, the
> > pilot
> > > > attempted to maneuver the aircraft out of the stall, but with no
> > success.
> > > > Rudders and elevators were ineffective, while ailerons could induce
> > > > approximately a 40 degree bank, resulting in an increased sink rate.
> > Power
> > > > settings had no effect at all. We theorized that the propeller had
> > stalled
> > > > as well. At 5000', the pilot decided to bail out. He opened the door
> > and
> > > > stood up in the aircraft, and realized that there was no wind, thus
> > > > confirming that the aircraft had no forward airspeed. He then leaned
> > over
> > > > the windshield, far enought to reach the canard, in an attempt to
> > shift
> > > > the
> > > > CG, but to no avail. He then decided to ride it out, and returned to
> > his
> > > > seat in the Velocity. After strapping himself in, he rode the
> > aircraft
> > > > down
> > > > into the ocean.
> > > >
> > > > The test pilot is extremely competent and experienced, and thus I
> > have
> > to
> > > > believe him when he says that there was no recovery method at this
> > CG
> > and
> > > > configuration."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
> > <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:54 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> >OH, and number 0, don't get into the situation where a flat stall
> > can
> > > > occur.
> > > >> >I see too many people fly too close to limits, just above stall
> > speed
> > > > when
> > > >> >in the pattern, and just practicing stalls.  Sort of practicing
> > walking
> > > > on a
> > > >> >high wire.  You can learn how to do it but WHY????
> > > >>
> > > >> Actually the setup I described is so you can deep stall the
> > airplane
> > and
> > > >> then unstall it by shifting the CG back forward.
> > > >>
> > > >> Scott
> > > >>
> > > >> "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
> > > >> - Benjamin Franklin
> > > >>
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> 
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