REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS

Wed Jan 5 12:13:38 CST 2005

"They did what they were designed to do, but as Doug said, they looked funky 
...
After more review, I believe the factory had decided not to include them in 
the kit. "

NO, NO, NO ...
The factory never decided, "Let's not ship this important safety feature 
(the leading edge cuff) because it looks funny".  The wing design was 
changed following the deep stall tests - particularly the outboard sections, 
which now provide additional lift - and which eliminated the need for this 
fix-it.  ((Note to Tom M. - This discussion pertains to the wing design of 
the very early Velocity Standard model aircraft.  Your V173 has an 
altogether different wing design that does not need the addition of a wing 
cuff.))
Scott B.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andy Millin" <amillin at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:37 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS

> After studying the deep stall problem, Danny designed leading edge
> extensions, "cuffs", for the wings.  This was a quick fix for flying
> aircraft.  They went on the main wing only and I believe toward the 
> outboard
> portion of the wing.  They could be added to a completed wing without 
> major
> surgery.  They did what they were designed to do, but as Doug said, they
> looked funky.
>
> After more review, I believe the factory had decided not to include them 
> in
> the kit.  If you do your home work and make sure your plane is flying in 
> CG,
> don't fly unapproved maneuvers (hammerhead, etc.), then a deep stall is 
> very
> hard to induce.
>
> There used to be "cuffs" on the elevator as well.  I believe their purpose
> was to make a more docile landing though.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
> Behalf Of Tom Martino
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:23 AM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
>
>
> What are leading edge cuffs???
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Holub [mailto:doug.holub at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:16 PM
> To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
>
> I think that is why they installed the weight track (200 lbs. that could
> move between the canard bulkhead and the firewall), but I am not aware
> that
> it was ever used to recover from a deep stall. Maybe I don't have all
> the
> facts. The May 1991 newsletter describes the experiments. The test pilot
> was
> able to induce a deep stall at c.g. = 118.5", but he recovered with full
> power and full up elevator without having to move the weight.
>
> After reading that newsletter again, I've decided to add the leading
> edge
> cuffs to my wings. It's not going to slow the plane down that much, and
> with
> the cuffs they were never able to induce a deep stall all the way back
> to
> c.g. = 121". I wish they didn't look so funky.
>
> Doug
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
>
>
>> Yes,  this was Maher's test pilot in Big Orange.
>>
>> After the experiance you mentioned, Danny installed the weight shift
> track
>> so they could deep stall the aircraft and then move the CG back to a
>> forward position by cranking it forward, and then fly out of the
> stall.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> > Sounds good, but I can't help thinking about that test pilot who
> (after
>> > many
>> > attempts) was able to put the Velocity into a deep stall, and then
>> > couldn't
>> > undo it, even after adjusting the cg by climbing out on to the nose
> of
> the
>> > aircraft. Here's the account from the April 1989 newsletter:
>> >
>> > "On March 30, while participating in aggravated stall maneuvers, the
> test
>> > pilot encountered a deep stall which resulted in 0 knots forward
> airspeed,
>> > and a descent rate of 1300 - 1500 fpm. This was approximately the
> 37th
>> > stall
>> > attempted at this CG and configuration. Starting at 9000 feet, the
> pilot
>> > attempted to maneuver the aircraft out of the stall, but with no
> success.
>> > Rudders and elevators were ineffective, while ailerons could induce
>> > approximately a 40 degree bank, resulting in an increased sink rate.
> Power
>> > settings had no effect at all. We theorized that the propeller had
> stalled
>> > as well. At 5000', the pilot decided to bail out. He opened the door
> and
>> > stood up in the aircraft, and realized that there was no wind, thus
>> > confirming that the aircraft had no forward airspeed. He then leaned
> over
>> > the windshield, far enought to reach the canard, in an attempt to
> shift
>> > the
>> > CG, but to no avail. He then decided to ride it out, and returned to
> his
>> > seat in the Velocity. After strapping himself in, he rode the
> aircraft
>> > down
>> > into the ocean.
>> >
>> > The test pilot is extremely competent and experienced, and thus I
> have
> to
>> > believe him when he says that there was no recovery method at this
> CG
> and
>> > configuration."
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
>> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
> <reflector at tvbf.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:54 PM
>> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: MODIFICATIONS
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >OH, and number 0, don't get into the situation where a flat stall
> can
>> > occur.
>> >> >I see too many people fly too close to limits, just above stall
> speed
>> > when
>> >> >in the pattern, and just practicing stalls.  Sort of practicing
> walking
>> > on a
>> >> >high wire.  You can learn how to do it but WHY????
>> >>
>> >> Actually the setup I described is so you can deep stall the
> airplane
> and
>> >> then unstall it by shifting the CG back forward.
>> >>
>> >> Scott
>> >>
>> >> "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
>> >> - Benjamin Franklin
>> >>
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