REFLECTOR: painting

Thu Dec 22 06:38:19 CST 2005

Al, did anybody mention.....nice job!  Particularly the color scheme on
the sail...verrrry nice.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:02 AM
To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: painting

Joe;

Thanks for further info.

I learned some of the same things as I have proceeded.  In general I am;
shall we say 'more timid' in going after the clear coat.  I have gone
after a couple runs starting with 1000 grit, and over broader area where
I'm working mild orange peel and dust nibs I use 1500 finishing film
discs (FFD's), then go directly to the 3M rubbing compound with a wool
pad.  I'm sure I could save some time with some 1200 and a pass with the
extra cut compound, but I am concerned, especially on a curved surface
of thinning the clearcoat more than necessary.  I guess I figured the
life of the job is dependant on the thickness of the clearcoat, and I'd
rather leave some remnant of orange-peel then find the clearcoat
breaking through some time later when I'm doing a wax job.  But I don't
speak from experience here.

I had tried the misting with water when I started with the 1500 FFD's,
and it did seem like if there was enough water to keep the film from
clogging, there would sometimes be a film thick enough that there wasn't
any cutting.  I found that sanding dry, and lifting it off and patting
the disc, or periodically putting the disc briefly onto the thigh of my
blue jeans (with the DA on) worked quite well - - and very scientific.

I tried the orange foam (quite firm) on the DA for the rubbing compound,
but the wool on rotating buffer worked better.  Thanks for tip on
misting the wool - I didn't and I'm sure that would help. I applied
swirl mark remover with white foam pad (softer), polish with black foam
(quite soft) on the DA with good results.

Attached is shot of fuselage (before buff and polish) and a shot to the
tip sail after.

Al

Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: painting

Hi Al,
Looks like I finally have a reliable internet service again.  Cold
definitely appears to be the problem, probably a wire inside the tap
that was receding when cooled.  

First the disclaimer - I am not a pro, but have done a number of cars /
repairs prior to the Velocity project.  I will say these techniques have
rubbed through the clear in a couple of small spots, which of course
will have to be fixed (not too hard), but overall it has saved me a
large amount of time.  The greatest caution has to be payed to edges and
sharp radiuses.

General steps I follow with respect to materials and application.  Start
at what ever point the defect requires or your comfortable with.

1 - 400 3m Gold Stick it on a hard pad. (very careful with this step)
2 - 600 wet with a jitterbug (1/3 sheet pneumatic orbital) with a medium
rubbed backup pad.
3 - 1200 dry 3m Finishing Film Disks.
3a - If large areas are being done, I use the 1200 disks wet before
following up with the 1200 dry.
    I use a fairly fine mist, just keeping enough water to prevent the
disk from bogging down, adding
    more misting as the process continues.  I found too much water seem
to stop the disk from cutting.
4 - 3m Extra Cut Rubbing Compound with a 3m wool pad in a conventional
buffer.  When starting a
    session I add a water mist, the wool seems to adsorb the water from
the compound and the 
    compound dries out a bit too fast.  Use the compound sparingly and
add if more if required.
5 - 3m Rubbing Compound with a 3m wool pad in a conventional buffer.
Add water as described in step
    4.  I use a separate wool pad for each compound grade.
6 - 3m Swirl Mark remover applied with a foam pad.  I prefer the pad
with the rounded corners.

Runs - I use a DA (pneumatic) with a hard backup pad and 3m Gold Stick
It 400.  With this I carefully try to eliminate the bulk of the run or
sag.  By using the hard pad with the 400, it removes the material pretty
quickly and the hard pad helps avoid rubbing the adjacent surface.  When
I have tried the finishing film directly on a run, I have found the area
adjacent to the run tends to wear through.  Then follow the above steps.

Orange peel - Depending upon the severity I will start with step 1, 2 or
3 depending on the depth of the orange peel and or dust nibs.  Then
follow with the above listed steps.  For my average level of orange
peel, I generally start with step 2.

Other notes:  
A quck buffing pass with extra cut after the film disks followed by
regular buffing compund seems to take a lot less time than following the
disks with the regular buffing compound.

The film disks appear to cut the best when fresh, but loose their life
rather quickly.  Using the disk with a minimal water level seems to do
well on large orange peel areas without going through a pile of
expensive disks. 

For sharp radius areas I use a film disk wet by hand.  On a power toll
they are far too likely to break through.

For edges I took a rubber sanding block and applied Velcro with
'industrial adhesive,'  I then attach a film disk to the sanding block.
This works well on edges.

Part Numbers:  (I like 3m products, they are a bit more money, but they
seem to last much longer)
Extra Cut Compound - 06060 (qt)
Rubbing Compound - 05973 (qt)
Swirl Mark Remover, Light Color - 39109 (pt)
Compounding Pad - 05711
Foam Pad - 05735
Buffer Back Up Disk - 05717
Finishing Film - as required

Hook-It Disks have the loops on the disk, while Hook-It II has the hooks
on the disk.

Al, Hopes this gives you some useful info.
Joe

----- Original Message ----- 
	From: Al Gietzen <mailto:ALVentures at cox.net>  
	To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list'
<mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>  
	Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:50 AM
	Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: painting

	Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: painting

	Hi AL,
	Sorry about the delayed reply, until this evening when I put a
heater on the cable companies equipment on the corner of my property, I
have not had more than a couple on minutes per day internet service.
Have you figured out the use of the finishing disks or can I still be of
assistance. Let me know.
	Joe

	Joe;

	Good to hear from you again. What? Is it so cold it is freezing
up the electrons? Where do you live?

	I have just gotten started with the sand/buff/polish program.  I
got the 3M "Hook-it II" 1500 discs and the corresponding backing pad for
my Porter Cable electric DA.  (Isn't it clever of 3M to reverse the
"hook" and "loop" faces on the Hook-it II so it is not compatible with
anybody else's pad) I've used a wool pad with Perfect-it II compound,
and foam pad with Swirl Remover, then the wax with pretty good results.
I was hesitant to use 1200, or the 'extra cut' compound, for fear of
cutting through the clear coat. However, the 1500 and the rubbing
compound won't get the orange peel very well.

	Yes, I could use any tips you wish to offer on using the discs -
I just put one on the backing pad (with an interface disc) and sanded
the surface. And, how concerned should I be about cutting too deep in
the clear coat?

	One thing is clear to me, using the Apollo HVLP over the
conventional gun has caused a lot more post-paint finish work, and I'm
not sure that it saved all that much in over-spray.  The atomization of
these paints by the conventional gun is definitely superior.  But the
painting is finished, and overall the job looks quite good.

	I was going to take this off-list, but there are likely others
who can benefit from your advice.

	Thanks,

	Al

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