REFLECTOR: Franklin seal leak

[John Dibble]

Actually, believe it or not, it isn't hard to get the seal over the flange.  At first
I thought only a miracle could make it happen.  Use a whet stone to remove any burrs
on the flange edges.  Put a plastic bag over the flange and lubricate it generously
with grease (I used engine oil).  Remove the spring and soak the seal in hot water for
several minutes.  Grasp the seal with both middle fingers, start from the bottom of
the flange, and stretch and slide it up and over the top.  I should go in one smooth
motion.  I can scan the installation diagram if you're interested.  The instructions
call for Unipar sealing cement or equilivant.  Anyone know where to get this or what
the equivalents are?

mike deeter wrote:

> John,
>
> Notwithstanding Steve's comments (undoubtedly correct)
> I did try prying the seal out of its seat and applying
> the sealant.  It's a real pain to try to get a new
> seal over the prop flange.  I can't figure out how
> you'd do it.  Also, you have a leak now; it probably
> won't get worse if you remove the seal, clean it up
> and apply sealant.  You'll probably be no worse off.
> I was able to pry the seal out and work w/ it w/ no
> visible damage.
>
> Alternatively, you could try my gasket fix.  It wasn't
> hard and I don't see a downside, even if it shouldn't
> be necessary.
>
> I forgot to check on the sealant I used.  I'll check
> and get back to you.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- Scott Derrick <scott at tnstaafl.net> wrote:
>
> > If its like any other crank shaft seal I've seen its
> > not possible and
> > highly discouraged to reuse seal that has been
> > removed.
> >
> > Your just asking for leak.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > John Dibble wrote:
> >
> > >Mike, Steve,
> > >Today I few 1/2 hour to get my prop balanced.  The
> > seal didn't leak a bit.  The
> > >procedure took to long and my oil got overheated,
> > and it started leaking again.  I'm
> > >going to try the sealant.  I'd prefer not to remove
> > the seal and risk damaging it.
> > >How do you remove the seal without damage?  Do you
> > think applying sealant to the back
> > >side only will help?
> > >
> > >John
> > >
> > >Mike Deeter wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>John:
> > >>
> > >>I did remove the seal to look at it and found that
> > the sealant used was
> > >>dried up.  I cleaned the seal and casing surface.
> > Then I gooped up
> > >>(it's a standard industry technical term) the
> > outer surface of the seal,
> > >>plopped it back in, and smeared the outside of the
> > seal in an attempt to
> > >>make sure there was unbroken sealant all the way
> > around.  I also
> > >>fabricated a gasket from gasket material I bought
> > at Tractor Supply
> > >>which closes off the same gap.  It has no effect
> > on the seal between the
> > >>inner surface of the seal and the crankshaft.  I
> > can't remember what the
> > >>sealant was but I'll check in a few hours when I'm
> > at the hangar and get
> > >>back to you.  In any case, it was a common
> > automotive form-a-gasket type
> > >>sealant.  It wasn't cement, though.
> > >>
> > >>Mike
> > >>
> > >>-----Original Message-----
> > >>From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org
> > [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org] On
> > >>Behalf Of John Dibble
> > >>Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:27 AM
> > >>To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
> > >>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Franklin seal leak
> > >>
> > >>I wondered about that.  When I replaced the seal,
> > the shop didn't have
> > >>the special
> > >>cement that the instructions specified, so I used
> > common automotive
> > >>cement.  Since it
> > >>lasted 28 hours, I figured the cement wasn't an
> > issue and I hadn't
> > >>checked because I
> > >>have to remove the pickup for the Rose EI, but I
> > guess I'll have to
> > >>check.  What type
> > >>of cement did you use?  Do I understand correctly
> > that you didn't remove
> > >>the seal,
> > >>just put the cement on the back side?
> > >>
> > >>John
> > >>
> > >>mike deeter wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>All:
> > >>>
> > >>>I had significant leakage out of my crankshaft
> > seal
> > >>>and found that it was leaking out around the
> > outside
> > >>>of the seal, i.e., between the engine casing and
> > the
> > >>>outer surface of the seal, NOT between the shaft
> > and
> > >>>the inner surface of the seal.  I did two things:
> > >>>fabricated a gasket to cover the above-mentioned
> > area,
> > >>>and gooped it w/ sealant there as well.  That
> > seemed
> > >>>to fix the problem.
> > >>>
> > >>>I actually think the gasket was overkill; in the
> > >>>directions for changing the seal, I think (my
> > failing
> > >>>memory at play here) it says to apply some
> > sealant
> > >>>where I mentioned above.  Mine had evidence it
> > came
> > >>>that way but it was all dried up.  I changed the
> > seal
> > >>>but, frankly, it didn't look any the worse for
> > wear
> > >>>and I probably just needed to add the sealant.
> > >>>
> > >>>Try the sealant first.  It's easy and you can try
> > the
> > >>>gasket if that doesn't work.
> > >>>
> > >>>Mike
> > >>>
> > >>>--- John Dibble <aminetech at bluefrog.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Thanks Steve.  That's an interesting point about
> > oil
> > >>>>temp.  Mine normally run 92-98 C
> > >>>>(198-208F).  When I replaced the seal there was
> > a
> > >>>>lot of dark brown deposit on the
> > >>>>shaft and I wonder if this abraded the seal and
> > made
> > >>>>it start leaking.  I assume the
> > >>>>deposit came from degradation of the oil,
> > perhaps
> > >>>>due to a high temp.  What are your
> > >>>>oil temps (before and now)?
> > >>>>When I bought my Velocity it had 205 hours and
> > the
> > >>>>seal was not leaking.  I flew it for
> > >>>>about 100 hours before the seal began leaking.
> > I
> > >>>>wonder if one's operating habits
> > >>>>(MAP, rpm, and amount of leaning) have any
> > impact.
> > >>>>Do you balance the prop?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Steve wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>My Franklin has only 65 hrs on it. I have
> > already
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>replaced the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>crankshaft seal due to it leaking oil. It still
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>leaked with a new seal.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>I have also been working on getting my oil temp
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>down  ... with some
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>success. Since the oil temps came down, the oil
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>leaking from the
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>crankshaft seal stopped leaking., so maybe its
> > a
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>temperature related
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>thing ??
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Pure coincidence, I happened to check for any
> > play
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>in the crankshaft
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>last week and was surprised to find a little
> > play
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>up and down but none
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>from side to side. I am still pondering this
> > when
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
> *******************************************
> Mike Deeter
> N2011 Test Pilot
> iguanamagic at yahoo.com
> http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org
> *******************************************
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