REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info

alcon at bellsouth.net alcon at bellsouth.net
Thu Oct 7 08:17:19 CDT 2004


>Let us be the second ones to tell you that ATP/Innodyn did not live up to their word about reimbursements.  I spoke with John as well and was promised that we would be reimbursed for costs. These people are no good BE AWARE!!!!
> From: "Scott Baker" <sbakr at comcast.net>
> Date: 2004/10/06 Wed PM 07:02:32 EDT
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
> 
> I've just been informed by one of the Velocity owners who was "affected" by ATP/Innodyn that Innodyn has NOT followed through with their promise to pay for Attorney fees and other losses associated with an earlier business deal with ATP.  It looks like my announcement that Innodyn has reformed it's ways regarding customer service and satisfaction might be premature.  Looking at Innodyn's web site, I see that Chuck and Charlie, the original owners and in my opinion "hucksters" still have a leading roll with the company.  Innodyn has added a host of professional managers including Jeff Davidson and Jonathan Snavely - who sounded quite sincere with their promises of customer satisfaction.  Time will, of course, tell.  "Caution" is the watchword of the day.
> SB
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Chuck Jensen 
>   To: 'Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list' 
>   Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 1:25 PM
>   Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
> 
> 
>   Scott,
> 
>   I'm unsure if the same parties are involved in Innodyne as were ATP?  If it's new people, that's a hopeful sign.  If it's the same old people with a new name--not so hopeful.  In looking at their website, one thing that still strikes a person is the 10% deposit to get on the list and 40% more before production of your engine will be started.  That's 50% in cash before the first hole is drilled.  Seems a little rich for a new, unproven product  We'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are an exception to the rule that "the more a vendor asks for on the front end, the less they deliver on the back end."
> 
>   Chuck
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Scott Baker
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 4:24 PM
>   To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
>   Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
> 
> 
>   Since my name was mentioned and a copy of words written some time ago regarding ATP (Affordable Turbine Power) were shown - I think it appropriate to update everyone regarding recent discussions I and Duane Swing have had with Innodyn.
>   About 2-months ago I received a telephone call from Jonathan Snavely, Director of Marketing for Innodyn.  Mr. Snavely asked for an open dialog regarding what's been said about ATP - and requested the opportunity to "make things right" for Velocity customers who were adversely affected by ATP's former business practices.  Our discussions were cordial, open, and candid.  Mr. Snavely said that Innodyn was aware of my editorial (it's a small world) - and mentioned that they thought the information to be inaccurate and unfair.  In response I relayed certain facts to Snavely - facts, based on his reaction, in my opinion he was not aware - regarding Velocity customers who had lost deposits with ATP.  I named names and gave telephone numbers - and Mr. Snavely asked for the opportunity to follow up.  To his credit, Jonathan called back a few days later to admit that "mistakes" did happen - and he went on to describe how he and Innodyn planned to reimburse all Velocity customers who had lost deposits, and to reimburse attorney fees for those who had hired professional help to get back deposits.  I must say that I couldn't be happier with Snavely's attitude and attention to customer service.  He really "stepped up to the plate" as far as I am concerned to make sure our family of Velocity customers were satisfied.
>   My objection, my complaint and concern about ATP centered on customer service and treating customers correctly.  To that end I believe Innodyn has done the right thing to make things right.
>   I really don't know enough about their product to say anything good - or bad - other than the fact that there is no independent data to back up their performance claims.  Like the author mentioned in Chuck Jensen's post, I'm skeptical - but perfectly willing to be proven wrong!
>   Duane and I had the pleasure of talking with Jonathan Snavely and Jeff Davidson (CEO of Innodyn) during a conference call - where we had a general and open discussion to "reintroduce" ourselves to one another.  I came away with a much better sense that Innodyn is being professionally managed - and that they appear to be more customer service oriented.  There is no doubt, however - that they are aggressively in the business of making a general aviation turbine engine - and are actively selling their product prior to it being put into production - and prior to publishing independent data to support the power, reliability, and fuel consumption information about their engine.
>   We wish Innodyn the best.  And we/I continue to urge prospects to do their own investigation before placing a deposit.
>   Scott B.
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: Chuck Jensen 
>     To: 'reflector at tvbf.org' 
>     Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 2:35 PM
>     Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
> 
> 
>     This is an old thread, but this is proof that snakes are never easy to kill.  In the most recent Consumer Aviation issue, there was an article about small, affordable turbines for GA from Affordable Turbine Power, ne Innodyne.  Seems like the sales pitch is the same....they are getting "real close" to having a manufacturable product!!  Just a little more time, and little more of your money, and they'll be there.  
> 
>     As luck would have it, the day before the author visited their facility to fly the turbine, another plane had supposedly bumped into the prop of the turbine and they weren't comfortable flying it so they ran it on the test stand instead, or something to that effect.  How convenient.
> 
>     The author of the article conceded that if Innodyne can do what they say they can do, it'll be something special--that's true.  But, they haven't done it yet--that's true.  And nobody else has been able to do before--also true.  But Innodyne is highly confident they can do it--also true. As a side note, I want to say that I'm ready to put my money down--not true.   In fairness to the author, he did express 'gentle' skepticism' about whether Innodyne would be able to do deliver everything they said they could.  He did not open any closets to check for skeletons; so none of ATP's 'dirty laundry' was brought out for viewing by the readers.
> 
>     Now, wouldn't the laugh be on us if they actually produced a workable turbine.  Anything is possible--in fact, a gaggle of pigs just passed overhead in formation.
> 
>     Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: reflector-admin at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin at tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Cindie Alexander-Paschal
>     Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:59 PM
>     To: reflector at tvbf.org
>     Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
> 
> 
>     We can tell you from experience that ATP spells trouble and loose your money. Don't fall into the same trap we did. We gave them a deposit two years ago, and never received our engine. Just this month after starting court proceedings we got our deposit. We can't say it enough, Scott is right they are selling SNAKE OIL NOT ENGINES.
> 
>     Scott Baker wrote:
> 
> To anyone who is remotely interested in purchasing an engine from ATP -
> Affordable Turbine Power - LISTEN UP!
> 
> 
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