From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 18:01:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Airmech) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:01:26 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Naca scoop cooling Message-ID: <00a401c40149$8beef430$6c01a8c0@airmech1pzvzmf> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01C40106.7DB1C390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone tried anything additional besides the pair of VG's to the = roof scoops to increase cooling in cruise? Brian Gallagher XL RG Airmech From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 4 00:19:30 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Airmech) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:19:30 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Naca scoop cooling Message-ID: <018a01c4017e$5d0b3860$6c01a8c0@airmech1pzvzmf> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0187_01C4013B.4EC7ED40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message These are a pair of the correct planform scoops. I was looking forward = to not needing the VG's but I had to add them. I'm pushing a bit more = power with this one so I need more flow at cruise. bg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Millin=20 To: 'Airmech'=20 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 10:33 AM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Naca scoop cooling Brian, The only other thing that I know that has worked, is to make the roof = scoops true NACA submerged inlets. The shape provided by the factory is = not correct. I'm sure you've heard that before. Rich Guerra and Kevin = Steiner have made them to spec, and I believe they have had good success = with the engine cooling. I don't believe they have needed or used VGs = on their aircraft. = http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=3D4291366131&mode=3D&idx=3D= 0 http://www.rguerra.com/velocity/ Andy -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On = Behalf Of Airmech Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:01 PM To: Reflector=20 Subject: REFLECTOR:Naca scoop cooling Has anyone tried anything additional besides the pair of VG's to the = roof scoops to increase cooling in cruise? Brian Gallagher XL RG Airmech From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 2 00:13:32 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Mike Pollock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:13:32 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Question on Accident of N1783DT In-Reply-To: <20040229122738.20625.97768.Mailman@dax.awpi.com> Message-ID: According to Paul, the fork bounced off of the bottom several times but did not hit the prop. Mike Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:06:55 -0600 From: Alex Balic Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Accident/incident To: reflector@tvbf.org Reply-To: reflector@tvbf.org Mike, Did the fork hit the prop? Just curious..... Alex From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 2 15:36:59 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:36:59 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Question on Accident of N1783DT In-Reply-To: References: <20040229122738.20625.97768.Mailman@dax.awpi.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040302083507.034ad8f8@mail.tnstaafl.net> When my fork broke the broken ears stayed connected to the tire which hit the fuselage twice, leaving long black marks. The second hit was more on the side than the bottom which luckily bounced it away from the plane and prop. Scott At 05:13 PM 3/1/2004, you wrote: >According to Paul, the fork bounced off of the bottom several times but did >not hit the prop. > >Mike > > >Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:06:55 -0600 >From: Alex Balic >Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Accident/incident >To: reflector@tvbf.org >Reply-To: reflector@tvbf.org > >Mike, > >Did the fork hit the prop? >Just curious..... > >Alex > > >_______________________________________________ >To change your email address, visit >http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > >Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery >user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose >Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail >Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 02:55:46 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (John Dibble) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:55:46 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Bad EGT Reading References: <165.2b7451c4.2d6b70e9@aol.com> <403A4FAC.3AE12C59@bluefrog.com> <403E1946.12421E6B@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <40454931.C43AC993@bluefrog.com> Jim, I guess I need some educating/persuading. The EGT/CHTs on my carbureted Franklin run considerably cooler than the temps I see posted for the Lycomings. Maybe I'm just not operating at a high power level. In any case the only use I can see for monitoring all 6 cylinders is to look for one that is way out of line and indicating a serious problem. I believe a check every 10 hours is adequate for this and my current monitor is adequate for that. How do you use yours? John Jim Sower wrote: > I would be inclined to spring for an indicator that displays all 6 all the time. In > my experience, things vary enough that if I only display one at a time either I'm > waaaaaay too busy chasing which one I want to be looking at, or taking care of other > business and not doing a proper job of monitoring. > It's a good investment .... Jim S. > > John Dibble wrote: > > > I have an RMI monitor with a single CHT/EGT display along with a > > multiplexing switch for reading all six cylinders of my Franklin > > engine. One EGT reads 2 degrees C whether the engine is operating or > > off and cold. Could this be a bad thermocouple or a bad connection? > > > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 03:47:20 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:47:20 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Lycoming IO-360 For Sale Message-ID: <23.3b924bce.2d76af48@aol.com> -------------------------------1078285640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a Lycoming IO-360 C1C with approximately 1275 hours SMOH. It has a new crank with approximately 250 hours on it. It was removed from a damaged aircraft with no prop strike. It is in Trade A Plane for $8,900. If anyone is interested, I would sell it on the Reflector for $8,500. Needs minor repair. If you are interested, contact me at pinkav8or@aol.com. Thank you. Ray Watkins From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 05:41:57 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jim Sower) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:41:57 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Bad EGT Reading References: <165.2b7451c4.2d6b70e9@aol.com> <403A4FAC.3AE12C59@bluefrog.com> <403E1946.12421E6B@frontiernet.net> <40454931.C43AC993@bluefrog.com> Message-ID: <40457025.4D8BE36@frontiernet.net> If all your temps are that low and that stable (I guess we're assuming they are, absent evidence that they aren't) you should be OK with what you've got. I had a single CHT-EGT on my Long-EZ and put in a 4-cyl system when a jug went south. It was very illuminating watching things vary for reasons that I was not able to pin down. I have an IO-360 on my Velocity and I see some "transients" and variations in which cylinder/pipe is hottest under different circumstances. I'm real glad I have it. Feel like I've been able to keep some unfortunate things from happening. My V came at me with CHT problems that I'm always fighting and am finally getting to where I'm staying ahead of them, but I watch close all the time. I don't want to ever be without good temp indications. But, like you say, they're Lycs and evidently run hotter than your Franklin. If a periodic look works for you, great. If you don't have a problem, you don't need a solution. If it works, don't *&$#^ with it (Harvey's First Law) .... Jim S. John Dibble wrote: > Jim, > I guess I need some educating/persuading. The EGT/CHTs on my carbureted Franklin run > considerably cooler than the temps I see posted for the Lycomings. Maybe I'm just not > operating at a high power level. In any case the only use I can see for monitoring all > 6 cylinders is to look for one that is way out of line and indicating a serious > problem. I believe a check every 10 hours is adequate for this and my current monitor > is adequate for that. How do you use yours? > > John > From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 19:24:27 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:24:27 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Control Cables Message-ID: <1cc.1b056cd8.2d778aeb@aol.com> -------------------------------1078341867 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need to order my throttle & mixture cables this week. I hear CableCraft are the best. Any 'mo betta" sources for ordering these? It seems like the vernier cables with the 10/32 threaded end are the best choice? Thanks for the input, Kurt Winker 173 FGE, 4.3L alum v-6 From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 19:33:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Velocity_AZ) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:33:26 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Control Cables In-Reply-To: <1cc.1b056cd8.2d778aeb@aol.com> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C4011B.B9F1E8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That’s what I put in mine. Kevin Steiner -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of NMFlyer1@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:24 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:Control Cables I need to order my throttle & mixture cables this week. I hear CableCraft are the best. Any 'mo betta" sources for ordering these? It seems like the vernier cables with the 10/32 threaded end are the best choice? Thanks for the input, Kurt Winker 173 FGE, 4.3L alum v-6 ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C4011B.B9F1E8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Th= at’s what I put in mine.

 

Ke= vin Steiner

 

-----Original Message-----
From: = reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On = Behalf Of NMFlyer1@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March = 03, 2004 12:24 PM
To: = reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: = REFLECTOR:Control Cables

 

I need to order my throttle & mixture cables this week. I hear CableCraft = are the best. Any 'mo betta" sources for ordering these? It seems like the = vernier cables with the 10/32 threaded end are the best choice?  =

 

Thanks for the input, 

 

Kurt Winker

173 FGE, 4.3L alum v-6

------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C4011B.B9F1E8C0-- From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 20:56:23 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jack Sheehan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:56:23 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Control Cables In-Reply-To: <1cc.1b056cd8.2d778aeb@aol.com> References: <1cc.1b056cd8.2d778aeb@aol.com> Message-ID: Kurt, You may want to try the factory. They have the right sizes etc and usually their price on things as an OEM are competitive. Jack From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 3 23:35:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:35:26 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Control Cables Message-ID: <140.23945ef1.2d77c5be@aol.com> -------------------------------1078356925 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Throttle and mixture cables need to be 160 inches long (standard measuring technique). Since my setup has the throttle & mixture control brackets on the top of the engine, I would guess that this length is quite a bit more than a "normal" setup. I plan on routing the cables down the left tunnel, and exiting a little in front of the gear bulkhead. I'll make the positioning bends behind the false wall in the back, and the cables will come through the firewall right where they need to be. I mocked this up with fence wire and the bends all seem tame and within specs for the cables. Any words of wisdom? Thanks, Kurt Winker Chev 4.3L Alum V-6 173 FGE From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 4 00:24:25 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Bill Medsker) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:24:25 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: REFLECTOR:Control Cables References: <1cc.1b056cd8.2d778aeb@aol.com> Message-ID: <40467739.000021.02000@MEDSKER1> --------------Boundary-00=_PSZ0A0V2QL8000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got two control cables left over if anyone can use them.. Lengths ar= e 120" and 132".. One is black and one is red; (for the color conscientious= ).=0D =0D Bill =0D =0D =0D I need to order my throttle & mixture cables this week. I hear CableCraft are the best. Any 'mo betta" sources for ordering these? It seems like th= e vernier cables with the 10/32 threaded end are the best choice? =0D =0D Thanks for the input, =0D =0D Kurt Winker=0D 173 FGE, 4.3L alum v-6=0D =20 From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 4 03:15:39 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:15:39 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <140.23945ef1.2d77c5be@aol.com> Message-ID: <001f01c40196$f8cca5a0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C40153.EA557940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would suggest that we all consider maintaining the integrity of our = firewalls where control cables, intrument wires, etc. pass through. = Here's a link to an outfit that has this problem handled. = http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron control cables (with = firesleeve over the entire length within the engine compartment) as well = as the throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations (with just the = short sealing firesleeve). Keith Hallsten, XLFG ----- Original Message -----=20 From: NMFlyer1@aol.com=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Control Cables My Throttle and mixture cables need to be 160 inches long (standard = measuring technique).=20 Since my setup has the throttle & mixture control brackets on the top = of the engine, I would guess that this length is quite a bit more than a = "normal" setup.=20 I plan on routing the cables down the left tunnel, and exiting a = little in front of the gear bulkhead. I'll make the positioning bends = behind the false wall in the back, and the cables will come through the = firewall right where they need to be. I mocked this up with fence wire = and the bends all seem tame and within specs for the cables.=20 Any words of wisdom?=20 Thanks, Kurt Winker Chev 4.3L Alum V-6 173 FGE From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 4 13:17:16 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Bob Hugel) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:17:16 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fast Build Kit for sale (cheap and quick)... Message-ID: <000201c401eb$04a41120$1a03a8c0@server01> All, The time is drawing close where I am in the need to slash the price of the Fast Build Kit which I have for sale... I have it listed for $38k, for everything including fast build wings and fuselage. Is there anyone here on reflector that knows anyone that would be interested in the kit and able to make an offer? I'm willing to reduce the price even more (thousands) to accommodate any serious buyer. I have had many phone calls on the kit but only one serious offer and just wanted to make sure that I did not miss anyone. Thanks, Bob Hugel 610-837-5079 (anytime) From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 4 14:41:02 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:41:02 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Lycoming IO-360 For Sale Message-ID: <104.408ed415.2d7899fe@aol.com> -------------------------------1078411262 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a Lycoming IO-360 C1C with approximately 1275 hours SMOH. It has a new crank with approximately 250 hours on it. It was removed from a damaged aircraft with no prop strike. It is in Trade A Plane for $8,900. If anyone is interested, I would sell it on the Reflector for $8,500. Needs minor repair. All accessories including brand new slick mags. The #3 cylinder needs to be replaced because the cylinder head separated from the barrell. #1 & #3 intake tubes need to be replaced because they were crused during extraction, and 2 valve cover gaskets need to be replaced. I will throw in an old used cylinder for any Velocity guys if they want it, but the cylinder will still need to be reworked. I can send pictures if anyone is interested. If you are interested, contact me at pinkav8or@aol.com. Thank you. Ray Watkins From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 4 16:14:03 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:14:03 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Fwd: Velocity cables Return-Path: Received: from rly-xm05.mx.aol.com (rly-xm05.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.106]) by air-xm03.mail.aol.com (v98.10) with ESMTP id MAILINXM32-61640474a20ea; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:24:45 -0500 Received: from tuthill-av.tuthill.com (smtp.tuthill.com [205.160.160.137]) by rly-xm05.mx.aol.com (v98.5) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXM58-61640474a20ea; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 10:24:16 -0500 Received: From tuthill-owa.tuthill.com ([10.251.48.33]) by tuthill-av.tuthill.com (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a); id 1078413848804; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:24:08 -0600 Received: from ustacoma-edc2.tuthill.com ([10.251.50.17]) by tuthill-owa.tuthill.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:24:08 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C401FC.BBE0C183" Subject: RE: Velocity cables Disposition-Notification-To: "Gallagher, Jim" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:24:06 -0800 Message-ID: <22AD75F922C63D44B7EFB4F266F1786D031F57@ustacoma-edc2.tuthill.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Velocity cables Thread-Index: AcQBfU2/S1yLc+4BTaqQ2Qq0LRUdngAfZw3g From: "Gallagher, Jim" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Mar 2004 15:24:08.0140 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCA2F8C0:01C401FC] X-AOL-IP: 205.160.160.137 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C401FC.BBE0C183 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Morning, Thanks for your inquiry Vernier style Throttle and Mixture controls measure from the base of the face nut (just below the knob) to the end of the threads (10-32) on the end rod. See link below if there is any questions on the measuring points. These controls will accept down to a 3 inch bend radius, so 6 inches will be no problem. Part numbers would be 565-555-A-G-160 (throttle, black knob) Price is $158.00 565-550-B-G-160 (mixture, red knob) Price is $158.00 The prices above do not include tax or freight Standard leadtime to build is one week Forms of payment are Visa and MC =20 If you have any questions, or need any other information, please let me know =20 =20 http://www.cablecraft.com/ProductCatalog/new_searchprod.asp?group_id=3D68 &sub_id=3D33 =20 =20 Jim Gallagher Technical Sales Tuthill Controls Group 253-475-1080 ext 233 253-474-1623 fax jgallagher@tuthill.com =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: NMFlyer1@aol.com [mailto:NMFlyer1@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:12 PM To: Gallagher, Jim Subject: Velocity cables =20 Greetings,=20 =20 I have heard good things about your cables, and am in the market for some. I require 1 throttle and 1 mixture control cable. I would like both to be vernier controlled and 160" long each. I based my measurements on standard practice and a 6" radius bend.=20 =20 I would appreciate a quote or a retailer that I may contact.=20 =20 Thanks, Kurt Winker =20 -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of John Dibble Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:06 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Accident/incident Perhaps it was reported that way on purpose for Mike's benefit. Having had an "incident" myself, I was advised by an A/P to be vague and give as little info as possible to the authorities. If the FAA feels the aircraft is not airworthy, they can ground it and you could be stuck away from home until the repairs are made and the reason for the failure is determined. Never say "accident". Always call it an "incident". John RJohn15183@aol.com wrote: > Ah! Classic "your governement at work". "They" wanted the report. "They" filed the report. Then they got it wrong! They said the tire failed! What a hoot! > > Thanks for the laugh! > > Rob > > > Apparently, the casting broke apart as the nose gear was > > lowered. Paul believes the casting may have had a crack > > or something that caused it to prematurely fail. > > > the NTSB was the driving force on the report, not him. > > > > > > DESCRIPTION > > ACFT WHILE LANDING ON RWY 23, THE NOSE TIRE FAILED. ACFT > > COMPLETED LANDING ON NOSE WHEEL ONLY. > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 14:13:35 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:13:35 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Navaid Auto Pilot Message-ID: <003801c402bc$0c501aa0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C40292.23262640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those of you who have the Navaid autopilot, read on. The rest of = you can ignore this note. After flying my Velocity for a year, I decided to try to improve the = operation of my Navaid autopilot. It has been working great in wing leveler mode - but I haven't been real = happy with they way it tracked the GPS signals via the Porcine coupler. = (I had already had the Porcine chip replaced because they had problems = with the aviation data stream that comes out of panel mounted GPS's) I finally figured it out (after reading the manuals again - for the 10th = time!) I had "jinked" the servo for the correct trim position. The Navaid's = left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right = hand knob is used to make turns. I repeat "left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the = right hand knob is used to make turns." If you are trying to fly = straight and level, DO NOT USE the right hand knob - use the trim = knob!!!=20 When putting the Navaid in track mode - make sure the right hand knob is = straight up. The trim knob is in what ever position is required to = maintain straight ahead flight. Then after engaging track mode, use the = trim knob to put the plane on course if the Navaid is not tracking the = course as desired. This last sentence is critically important to = getting good tracking performance. I used to cuss the Navaid because it = didn't seem to be holding the correct track. If you use the trim knob = to establish the plane on track, it tracks PERFECTLY!!!! A HAPPY NAVAID USER!=20 Ronnie Brown From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 14:49:22 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Brian Michalk) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:49:22 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Navaid Auto Pilot In-Reply-To: <003801c402bc$0c501aa0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C4028E.C1537420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hehe. I've had the same experience writing device drivers for fairly "simple" cards. I thought I knew the 8255 like the back of my hand, but I always had this quirky annoying bug every once in a blue moon. Then one day I was going over the manual for a different unrelated reason, and it hit me where my bug was. I have been writing for this card for over ten years, and just now realized what the documentation was trying to tell me. Seems like I always get the "complicated" cards correct the first time ... or reasonably correct. -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Ronnie Brown Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:14 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:Navaid Auto Pilot For those of you who have the Navaid autopilot, read on. The rest of you can ignore this note. After flying my Velocity for a year, I decided to try to improve the operation of my Navaid autopilot. It has been working great in wing leveler mode - but I haven't been real happy with they way it tracked the GPS signals via the Porcine coupler. (I had already had the Porcine chip replaced because they had problems with the aviation data stream that comes out of panel mounted GPS's) I finally figured it out (after reading the manuals again - for the 10th time!) I had "jinked" the servo for the correct trim position. The Navaid's left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns. I repeat "left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns." If you are trying to fly straight and level, DO NOT USE the right hand knob - use the trim knob!!! When putting the Navaid in track mode - make sure the right hand knob is straight up. The trim knob is in what ever position is required to maintain straight ahead flight. Then after engaging track mode, use the trim knob to put the plane on course if the Navaid is not tracking the course as desired. This last sentence is critically important to getting good tracking performance. I used to cuss the Navaid because it didn't seem to be holding the correct track. If you use the trim knob to establish the plane on track, it tracks PERFECTLY!!!! A HAPPY NAVAID USER! Ronnie Brown From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 16:51:17 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Nolan Frederick) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:51:17 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Navaid Auto Pilot References: <003801c402bc$0c501aa0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <001501c402d2$142f04f0$42c262d8@nolan> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C40297.6766BCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Reflectorites, I still have my unused Navaid AP system for sale (it looks to be the = same as Ronnie Brown's unit). nolan frederick ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronnie Brown=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:13 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Navaid Auto Pilot For those of you who have the Navaid autopilot, read on. The rest of = you can ignore this note. After flying my Velocity for a year, I decided to try to improve the = operation of my Navaid autopilot. It has been working great in wing leveler mode - but I haven't been = real happy with they way it tracked the GPS signals via the Porcine = coupler. (I had already had the Porcine chip replaced because they had = problems with the aviation data stream that comes out of panel mounted = GPS's) I finally figured it out (after reading the manuals again - for the = 10th time!) I had "jinked" the servo for the correct trim position. The Navaid's = left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right = hand knob is used to make turns. I repeat "left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, = the right hand knob is used to make turns." If you are trying to fly = straight and level, DO NOT USE the right hand knob - use the trim = knob!!!=20 When putting the Navaid in track mode - make sure the right hand knob = is straight up. The trim knob is in what ever position is required to = maintain straight ahead flight. Then after engaging track mode, use the = trim knob to put the plane on course if the Navaid is not tracking the = course as desired. This last sentence is critically important to = getting good tracking performance. I used to cuss the Navaid because it = didn't seem to be holding the correct track. If you use the trim knob = to establish the plane on track, it tracks PERFECTLY!!!! A HAPPY NAVAID USER!=20 Ronnie Brown From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 19:01:55 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (John Dibble) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:01:55 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Navaid Auto Pilot References: <003801c402bc$0c501aa0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <4048CEA2.A6D8F731@bluefrog.com> --------------7C1C1F7FE55D688B73F0229D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ronnie, I have an STEC 50 and also have been unsuccessful at tracking a VOR or GPS. I'll try the trim knob next time out. My instructions don't mention the trim knob, but say to be within one needle width of the course (seems like a tall order) and within 10 degrees of the desired heading before engaging the AP. Thanks for the tip. John Ronnie Brown wrote: > For those of you who have the Navaid autopilot, read on. The rest of > you can ignore this note. After flying my Velocity for a year, I > decided to try to improve the operation of my Navaid autopilot. It has > been working great in wing leveler mode - but I haven't been real > happy with they way it tracked the GPS signals via the Porcine > coupler. (I had already had the Porcine chip replaced because they > had problems with the aviation data stream that comes out of panel > mounted GPS's) I finally figured it out (after reading the manuals > again - for the 10th time!) I had "jinked" the servo for the correct > trim position. The Navaid's left hand knob is used to trim the plane > for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns. I repeat > "left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right > hand knob is used to make turns." If you are trying to fly straight > and level, DO NOT USE the right hand knob - use the trim knob!!! When > putting the Navaid in track mode - make sure the right hand knob is > straight up. The trim knob is in what ever position is required to > maintain straight ahead flight. Then after engaging track mode, use > the trim knob to put the plane on course if the Navaid is not tracking > the course as desired. This last sentence is critically important to > getting good tracking performance. I used to cuss the Navaid because > it didn't seem to be holding the correct track. If you use the trim > knob to establish the plane on track, it tracks PERFECTLY!!!! A HAPPY > NAVAID USER!Ronnie Brown --------------7C1C1F7FE55D688B73F0229D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ronnie,

I have an STEC 50 and also have been unsuccessful at tracking a VOR or GPS.  I'll try the trim knob next time out.  My instructions don't mention the trim knob, but say to be within one needle width of the course (seems like a tall order) and within 10 degrees of the desired heading before engaging the AP.  Thanks for the tip.

John

Ronnie Brown wrote:

For those of you who have the Navaid autopilot, read on.  The rest of you can ignore this note. After flying my Velocity for a year, I decided to try to improve the operation of my Navaid autopilot. It has been working great in wing leveler mode - but I haven't been real happy with they way it tracked the GPS signals via the Porcine coupler.  (I had already had the Porcine chip replaced because they had problems with the aviation data stream that comes out of panel mounted GPS's) I finally figured it out (after reading the manuals again - for the 10th time!) I had "jinked" the servo for the correct trim position. The Navaid's left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns. I repeat "left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns."  If you are trying to fly straight and level, DO NOT USE the right hand knob - use the trim knob!!! When putting the Navaid in track mode - make sure the right hand knob is straight up.  The trim knob is in what ever position is required to maintain straight ahead flight.  Then after engaging track mode, use the trim knob to put the plane on course if the Navaid is not tracking the course as desired.  This last sentence is critically important to getting good tracking performance.  I used to cuss the Navaid because it didn't seem to be holding the correct track.  If you use the trim knob to establish the plane on track, it tracks PERFECTLY!!!! A HAPPY NAVAID USER!Ronnie Brown
--------------7C1C1F7FE55D688B73F0229D-- From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 19:23:25 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (mike deeter) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:23:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: <4048CEA2.A6D8F731@bluefrog.com> Message-ID: <20040305192325.86520.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Help for advice re: wing incidence I'm sure a bunch of folks have dealt with this issue. My Std Elite RG flies fine but it also seems to fly a bit fuselage-high in cruise. Several people, including one guy w/ an identical Velocity and set of wings (Alan Shaw's), have remarked on it. I think so, too, and since that must be a high-drag attitude I want to explore what (if anything, since it flies fine) to do about it. If it's pertinent, my canard is 1/8" to 1/4" up when I'm flying in cruise with a midrange CG. Questions: 1. I measured the main wings versus the canard using Velocity's incidence jigs and my digital level as a standard and found my canard to be about 0.5 degrees leading edge low as compared to the main wing. Would raising the canard incidence 0.5 degrees have the effect of lowering the nose in cruise? 2. What about shimming the upper, outboard wing bolt? That would seem to raise the angle of incidence of the main wing chord slightly. Would that bring the nose down in cruise? I did measure my main wing/fuselage relationship versus my friend's Velocity and found no appreciable difference. My calculations using geometric relations show a 0.030" shim changing the chord about 0.43 degrees. Significant? Can I get away with just the outboard bolt or must I shim the inboard wing bolt as well? 3. Any other suggestions? Of course, both 1. and 2. would have cosmetic ramifications as well. I'd like to get in touch with Alan Shaw but emails get returned from his old address, wingco@iu.net. Can anyone provide a current email and phone number for Alan? Thanks for any advice. Mike Deeter Velocity Std Elite w/ Franklin/Ivo N2011P ===== ******************************************* Mike Deeter N2011 Test Pilot iguanamagic@yahoo.com http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org ******************************************* __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 20:25:58 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Pat Shea) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:25:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) In-Reply-To: <001f01c40196$f8cca5a0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to the starter. Pat --- KeithHallsten wrote: > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining the > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a link > to an outfit that has this problem handled. > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire > length within the engine compartment) as well as the > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 21:37:15 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jim Agnew) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:37:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) In-Reply-To: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040305213715.95290.qmail@web41304.mail.yahoo.com> Pat, A far better and safer way is to place the starter solenoid up front next to the master solenoid and then your starter + cable is dead and much safer except during starting. Jim --- Pat Shea wrote: > Hi Keith, > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to the > starter. > > Pat > > > --- KeithHallsten wrote: > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining the > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a link > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire > > length within the engine compartment) as well as the > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html ===== James F. Agnew Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com Tampa, FL Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 5 23:31:19 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Pat Shea) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:31:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) In-Reply-To: <20040305213715.95290.qmail@web41304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040305233119.10101.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, Actually, my starter solenoid is up front w/ the master. I just didn't like that + #2 wire being exposed in the engine compartment, and it just seemed like everything convenient to clamp it to and immediately surrounding it was grounded! Granted, if it becomes shorted, you'll probably discover that the next time you go to engine start. That's a lot better than in flight, but probably still not a pleasant experience. Anyway, cheap insurance. Pat --- Jim Agnew wrote: > Pat, > > A far better and safer way is to place the starter > solenoid > up front next to the master solenoid and then your > starter > + cable is dead and much safer except during > starting. > > Jim > > --- Pat Shea wrote: > > Hi Keith, > > > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on > > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? > > > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also > > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to > the > > starter. > > > > Pat > > > > > > --- KeithHallsten > wrote: > > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining > the > > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, > > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a > link > > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. > > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > > > > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron > > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire > > > length within the engine compartment) as well as > the > > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations > > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). > > > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for > faster > > http://search.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > To change your email address, visit > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > > Check old archives: > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > ===== > James F. Agnew > Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com > Tampa, FL > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 00:32:19 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Pat Shea) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:32:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: <20040305192325.86520.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040306003219.21595.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> Mike, I suspect you wouldn't want to change the relative wing-to-canard incidence (deep stall issues, etc.). Increasing the incidence of both, however, should cause the nose of the fuselage to be lower in flight. In other words, both incidence jigs should still center - the fuselage would just need to be in a more nose down attitude than before the incidence change. Of course, the strakes are part of the wing and are tied to the fuselage's attitude. Maybe the factory could advise you on how much, if any, change is reasonable. Pat --- mike deeter wrote: > Help for advice re: wing incidence > > I'm sure a bunch of folks have dealt with this > issue. > > My Std Elite RG flies fine but it also seems to fly > a > bit fuselage-high in cruise. Several people, > including one guy w/ an identical Velocity and > set of wings (Alan Shaw's), have remarked on it. I > think so, too, and since that must be a high-drag > attitude I want to explore what (if anything, since > it > flies fine) to do about it. > > If it's pertinent, my canard is 1/8" to 1/4" up when > I'm flying in cruise with a midrange CG. > > Questions: > > 1. I measured the main wings versus the canard using > Velocity's incidence jigs and my digital level as a > standard and found my canard to be about 0.5 degrees > leading edge low as compared to the main wing. > Would > raising the canard incidence 0.5 degrees have the > effect of lowering the nose in cruise? > > 2. What about shimming the upper, outboard wing > bolt? > That would seem to raise the angle of incidence of > the main wing chord slightly. Would that bring the > nose down in cruise? I did measure my main > wing/fuselage relationship versus my friend's > Velocity > and found no appreciable difference. My > calculations > using geometric relations show a 0.030" shim > changing > the chord about 0.43 degrees. Significant? Can I > get > away with just the outboard bolt or must I shim the > inboard wing bolt as well? > > 3. Any other suggestions? > > Of course, both 1. and 2. would have cosmetic > ramifications as well. > > I'd like to get in touch with Alan Shaw but emails > get > returned from his old address, wingco@iu.net. Can > anyone provide a current email and phone number for > Alan? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Mike Deeter > Velocity Std Elite w/ Franklin/Ivo > N2011P > > > > > ===== > ******************************************* > Mike Deeter > N2011 Test Pilot > iguanamagic@yahoo.com > http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org > ******************************************* > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 01:14:46 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Kufalk) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:14:46 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Global Flyer Message-ID: <003601c40318$6a44aac0$33b41d41@d1f8h8> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C402E6.1F5F7620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks like Burt does it again. http://www.scaled.com/projects/virgin/capricorn/first_flight.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C402E6.1F5F7620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looks like Burt does it = again.
 
http://www.scaled.com/projects/virgin/capricorn/first_flight.htm
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01C402E6.1F5F7620-- From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 02:36:49 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:36:49 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002001c40323$e0c71a60$1da33c42@quiknet.com> I'm just starting on running the cables, tubes and hoses, so I'm not yet sure how much stuff I will have coming out of the ducts. Since I'm building a fixed-gear XL, I have the option of running quite a bit of stuff down the keel - some of it will then go through the firewall instead of out the duct openings. My vague intent is to wrap the wires and tubes with cut-up pieces of firesleeve at duct openings, then fill the remaining spaces with fire putty (or some such material) and cover it with SS sheet. It's also possible that I may end up using one of the larger pass-through fittings from EPM-AV Corp mounted to the SS sheet covering the duct openings. We will see how this works out in practice! Keith Hallsten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Shea" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > Hi Keith, > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to the > starter. > > Pat > > > --- KeithHallsten wrote: > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining the > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a link > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire > > length within the engine compartment) as well as the > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > http://search.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 12:45:18 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Wayne) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 07:45:18 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> <002001c40323$e0c71a60$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <000a01c40378$e1ff99c0$6500a8c0@hppav> Several years ago a Velocity went down in a Georgia cornfield when a fellow ran a "braid protected" fuel line through the firewall without benefit of a bulkhead fitting. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "KeithHallsten" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > I'm just starting on running the cables, tubes and hoses, so I'm not yet > sure how much stuff I will have coming out of the ducts. Since I'm building > a fixed-gear XL, I have the option of running quite a bit of stuff down the > keel - some of it will then go through the firewall instead of out the duct > openings. My vague intent is to wrap the wires and tubes with cut-up pieces > of firesleeve at duct openings, then fill the remaining spaces with fire > putty (or some such material) and cover it with SS sheet. It's also > possible that I may end up using one of the larger pass-through fittings > from EPM-AV Corp mounted to the SS sheet covering the duct openings. We > will see how this works out in practice! > > Keith Hallsten > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Shea" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:25 PM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > > > > Hi Keith, > > > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on > > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? > > > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also > > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to the > > starter. > > > > Pat > > > > > > --- KeithHallsten wrote: > > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining the > > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, > > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a link > > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. > > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > > > > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron > > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire > > > length within the engine compartment) as well as the > > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations > > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). > > > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > > http://search.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 13:15:46 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:15:46 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence References: <20040306003219.21595.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c4037d$239b6b80$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> I found this in the Archives. This is by Alan Shaw: At cruise I like a Velocity with 1/2" of reflex single pilot. This rig makes for a faster cruise and slower landing. Your case may be a little extreme and require 1/2 degree less incidence in the canard. A quick fix is to put a 1/32" washer on both outboard top wing bolts...thus decreasing the difference between the incidence angle of the canard and main wing. This way you can test fly the change before you go through the hassle of changing the canard. Like I said, I like a Velocity that requires full forward trim and full forward stick by the pilot when solo, wide open at sea level. This will leave more elevator authority (flare!) when you are slow and loaded. It should also trim fine at the lower indicated airspeeds of cruise at 8,000' and above. It's a common problem with new Velocities that the new owners fly in this unusual mode of solo, full throttle, low altitude and then re-rig there A/C to "fix" this quirk that really just makes things better on the slow end of the flight envelope. With such a powerful canard some people are worried about deep stall. Even if you could "make" it deep stall I doubt that you push your canard past normal bucking into the violent bucking and rolling etc. that normally precedes the "big one". What prevents deep stall is not just as simple as the difference in wing loading between the two wings but all there differences in characteristics as whole. That means incidence angle, aspect ratio, camber, leading edge radius and many other lesser factors. In other words, if you decrease the canard incidence and/or cut it shorter (lower the aspect ratio) then you have actually increased two factors for deep stall potential. On the other hand this change has increased you wing loading on the canard and also made it harder for you to pull the nose up too high. If you are confused so am I. That's the problem there are so many variables each with different coefficients of influence over the wing differential we are trying to maintain while at the same time trying to get as wide a flight envelope as possible. The obvious is to keep the CG in front of the center of lift. The problem here is that the main wing/winglet is comprised of four different airfoils, incident angles and coefficient's of lift. So where exactly is the center of lift?....well the experts don't seem to agree unless they simplify with rounded off "rules of thumb" that are far from the truth. That's why the flight test that Dan, myself and especially Jim Patton did were so important. When Jim "tickled the dragons tail", as he put it, he found the Velocity to have far more low speed stability and aft CG capability than its other "Easy" counter parts. As the head of NASA's GA stall spin R&D program for almost 20 years Jim has pushed everything out there way past it's limits and should know. In his opinion the STD wing Velocity is as good as it gets in the compromise between stall prevention and performance. Personally I think the STD Velocity will endure the test of time as one of aviation's more exceptional designs. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Shea" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:32 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence | Mike, | | I suspect you wouldn't want to change the relative | wing-to-canard incidence (deep stall issues, etc.). | Increasing the incidence of both, however, should | cause the nose of the fuselage to be lower in flight. | In other words, both incidence jigs should still | center - the fuselage would just need to be in a more | nose down attitude than before the incidence change. | | Of course, the strakes are part of the wing and are | tied to the fuselage's attitude. Maybe the factory | could advise you on how much, if any, change is | reasonable. | | Pat | | --- mike deeter wrote: | > Help for advice re: wing incidence | > | > I'm sure a bunch of folks have dealt with this | > issue. | > | > My Std Elite RG flies fine but it also seems to fly | > a | > bit fuselage-high in cruise. Several people, | > including one guy w/ an identical Velocity and | > set of wings (Alan Shaw's), have remarked on it. I | > think so, too, and since that must be a high-drag | > attitude I want to explore what (if anything, since | > it | > flies fine) to do about it. | > | > If it's pertinent, my canard is 1/8" to 1/4" up when | > I'm flying in cruise with a midrange CG. | > | > Questions: | > | > 1. I measured the main wings versus the canard using | > Velocity's incidence jigs and my digital level as a | > standard and found my canard to be about 0.5 degrees | > leading edge low as compared to the main wing. | > Would | > raising the canard incidence 0.5 degrees have the | > effect of lowering the nose in cruise? | > | > 2. What about shimming the upper, outboard wing | > bolt? | > That would seem to raise the angle of incidence of | > the main wing chord slightly. Would that bring the | > nose down in cruise? I did measure my main | > wing/fuselage relationship versus my friend's | > Velocity | > and found no appreciable difference. My | > calculations | > using geometric relations show a 0.030" shim | > changing | > the chord about 0.43 degrees. Significant? Can I | > get | > away with just the outboard bolt or must I shim the | > inboard wing bolt as well? | > | > 3. Any other suggestions? | > | > Of course, both 1. and 2. would have cosmetic | > ramifications as well. | > | > I'd like to get in touch with Alan Shaw but emails | > get | > returned from his old address, wingco@iu.net. Can | > anyone provide a current email and phone number for | > Alan? | > | > Thanks for any advice. | > | > Mike Deeter | > Velocity Std Elite w/ Franklin/Ivo | > N2011P | > | > | > | > | > ===== | > ******************************************* | > Mike Deeter | > N2011 Test Pilot | > iguanamagic@yahoo.com | > http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org | > ******************************************* | > | > __________________________________ | > Do you Yahoo!? | > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster | > http://search.yahoo.com | > _______________________________________________ | > To change your email address, visit | > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > | > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > Check old archives: | http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | | | | | __________________________________ | Do you Yahoo!? | Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster | http://search.yahoo.com | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 14:12:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:12:28 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305233119.10101.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005801c40385$0f2604a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> But you still have a hot wire running back to the engine - for the alternator. It is a pretty healthy #8 or perhaps #10 for a 50-60 amp alternator. If you run the starter cable hot off the main contactor, then you don't need the extra wire for the alternator. Just connect the alternator to the hot cable on the starter. Both methods are fine. Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Shea" To: Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:31 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) | Jim, | | Actually, my starter solenoid is up front w/ the | master. I just didn't like that + #2 wire being | exposed in the engine compartment, and it just seemed | like everything convenient to clamp it to and | immediately surrounding it was grounded! Granted, if | it becomes shorted, you'll probably discover that the | next time you go to engine start. That's a lot better | than in flight, but probably still not a pleasant | experience. Anyway, cheap insurance. | | Pat | | --- Jim Agnew wrote: | > Pat, | > | > A far better and safer way is to place the starter | > solenoid | > up front next to the master solenoid and then your | > starter | > + cable is dead and much safer except during | > starting. | > | > Jim | > | > --- Pat Shea wrote: | > > Hi Keith, | > > | > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on | > > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? | > > | > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also | > > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to | > the | > > starter. | > > | > > Pat | > > | > > | > > --- KeithHallsten | > wrote: | > > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining | > the | > > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, | > > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a | > link | > > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. | > > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html | > > > | > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron | > > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire | > > > length within the engine compartment) as well as | > the | > > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations | > > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). | > > > | > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG | > > | > > | > > __________________________________ | > > Do you Yahoo!? | > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for | > faster | > > http://search.yahoo.com | > > _______________________________________________ | > > To change your email address, visit | > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > > | > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > > Check old archives: | > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | > | > | > ===== | > James F. Agnew | > Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com | > Tampa, FL | > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying | > _______________________________________________ | > To change your email address, visit | > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > | > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > Check old archives: | http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | | | | __________________________________ | Do you Yahoo!? | Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster | http://search.yahoo.com | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 16:18:57 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Laurence Coen) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:18:57 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305233119.10101.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> <005801c40385$0f2604a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: Ronnie, I think there are a couple of problems with your approach of connecting the alternator to the starter hot terminal. First, you should use a fusible link to make the connection. This is to prevent a fire should the alternator fail in short circuit mode. I have never met an aircraft that didn't have a circuit breaker in the alternator battery connection. If you want an ammeter it would have to be wired into the battery lead which means that starter motor load would go through the ammeter. A 60 amp device would be fried on the first startup. My advice would be to do it the way that Jim Agnew suggests. Larry Coen Std. RG/E Franklin N136LC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Brown" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:12 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > But you still have a hot wire running back to the engine - for the > alternator. It is a pretty healthy #8 or perhaps #10 for a 50-60 amp > alternator. > > If you run the starter cable hot off the main contactor, then you don't need > the extra wire for the alternator. Just connect the alternator to the hot > cable on the starter. > > Both methods are fine. > > Ronnie Brown > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Shea" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > > > | Jim, > | > | Actually, my starter solenoid is up front w/ the > | master. I just didn't like that + #2 wire being > | exposed in the engine compartment, and it just seemed > | like everything convenient to clamp it to and > | immediately surrounding it was grounded! Granted, if > | it becomes shorted, you'll probably discover that the > | next time you go to engine start. That's a lot better > | than in flight, but probably still not a pleasant > | experience. Anyway, cheap insurance. > | > | Pat > | > | --- Jim Agnew wrote: > | > Pat, > | > > | > A far better and safer way is to place the starter > | > solenoid > | > up front next to the master solenoid and then your > | > starter > | > + cable is dead and much safer except during > | > starting. > | > > | > Jim > | > > | > --- Pat Shea wrote: > | > > Hi Keith, > | > > > | > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on > | > > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? > | > > > | > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also > | > > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to > | > the > | > > starter. > | > > > | > > Pat > | > > > | > > > | > > --- KeithHallsten > | > wrote: > | > > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining > | > the > | > > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, > | > > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a > | > link > | > > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. > | > > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html > | > > > > | > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron > | > > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire > | > > > length within the engine compartment) as well as > | > the > | > > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations > | > > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). > | > > > > | > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > | > > > | > > > | > > __________________________________ > | > > Do you Yahoo!? > | > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for > | > faster > | > > http://search.yahoo.com > | > > _______________________________________________ > | > > To change your email address, visit > | > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > | > > > | > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > | > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > | > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > | > > Check old archives: > | > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > | > > | > > | > ===== > | > James F. Agnew > | > Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com > | > Tampa, FL > | > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying > | > _______________________________________________ > | > To change your email address, visit > | > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > | > > | > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > | > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > | > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > | > Check old archives: > | http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > | > | > | > | __________________________________ > | Do you Yahoo!? > | Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster > | http://search.yahoo.com > | _______________________________________________ > | To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > | > | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 18:00:56 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:00:56 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305233119.10101.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com> <005801c40385$0f2604a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <001001c403a4$fa2a1bc0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Hi Larry, I do have a 70 amp breaker as well as an ammeter shunt on the firewall in the wire between the alternator and starter. Of course, the breaker can't be reset - but if the breaker trips - it is because there is something wrong that needs to be repaired - a shorted wire or alternator. This wiring arrangement was from Aeroelectric Bob's manual - although I don't have it with me now - I loaned it out. Ronnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laurence Coen" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) | Ronnie, | | I think there are a couple of problems with your approach of connecting the | alternator to the starter hot terminal. First, you should use a fusible | link to make the connection. This is to prevent a fire should the | alternator fail in short circuit mode. I have never met an aircraft that | didn't have a circuit breaker in the alternator battery connection. If you | want an ammeter it would have to be wired into the battery lead which means | that starter motor load would go through the ammeter. A 60 amp device would | be fried on the first startup. My advice would be to do it the way that Jim | Agnew suggests. | | Larry Coen | Std. RG/E Franklin | N136LC | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Ronnie Brown" | To: | Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:12 AM | Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) | | | > But you still have a hot wire running back to the engine - for the | > alternator. It is a pretty healthy #8 or perhaps #10 for a 50-60 amp | > alternator. | > | > If you run the starter cable hot off the main contactor, then you don't | need | > the extra wire for the alternator. Just connect the alternator to the hot | > cable on the starter. | > | > Both methods are fine. | > | > Ronnie Brown | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Pat Shea" | > To: | > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:31 PM | > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) | > | > | > | Jim, | > | | > | Actually, my starter solenoid is up front w/ the | > | master. I just didn't like that + #2 wire being | > | exposed in the engine compartment, and it just seemed | > | like everything convenient to clamp it to and | > | immediately surrounding it was grounded! Granted, if | > | it becomes shorted, you'll probably discover that the | > | next time you go to engine start. That's a lot better | > | than in flight, but probably still not a pleasant | > | experience. Anyway, cheap insurance. | > | | > | Pat | > | | > | --- Jim Agnew wrote: | > | > Pat, | > | > | > | > A far better and safer way is to place the starter | > | > solenoid | > | > up front next to the master solenoid and then your | > | > starter | > | > + cable is dead and much safer except during | > | > starting. | > | > | > | > Jim | > | > | > | > --- Pat Shea wrote: | > | > > Hi Keith, | > | > > | > | > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on | > | > > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? | > | > > | > | > > After Bill Huen's incident, I decided to also | > | > > firesleeve my + battery lead from the firewall to | > | > the | > | > > starter. | > | > > | > | > > Pat | > | > > | > | > > | > | > > --- KeithHallsten | > | > wrote: | > | > > > I would suggest that we all consider maintaining | > | > the | > | > > > integrity of our firewalls where control cables, | > | > > > intrument wires, etc. pass through. Here's a | > | > link | > | > > > to an outfit that has this problem handled. | > | > > > http://www.epm-avcorp.com/tubeseal.html | > | > > > | > | > > > I plan to use this general scheme for my aileron | > | > > > control cables (with firesleeve over the entire | > | > > > length within the engine compartment) as well as | > | > the | > | > > > throttle, mixture, prop and wiring penetrations | > | > > > (with just the short sealing firesleeve). | > | > > > | > | > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG | > | > > | > | > > | > | > > __________________________________ | > | > > Do you Yahoo!? | > | > > Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for | > | > faster | > | > > http://search.yahoo.com | > | > > _______________________________________________ | > | > > To change your email address, visit | > | > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > | > > | > | > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > | > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > | > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > | > > Check old archives: | > | > http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | > | > | > | > | > | > ===== | > | > James F. Agnew | > | > Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com | > | > Tampa, FL | > | > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying | > | > _______________________________________________ | > | > To change your email address, visit | > | > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > | > | > | > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > | > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > | > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > | > Check old archives: | > | http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | > | | > | | > | | > | __________________________________ | > | Do you Yahoo!? | > | Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster | > | http://search.yahoo.com | > | _______________________________________________ | > | To change your email address, visit | > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > | | > | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | > | > | > _______________________________________________ | > To change your email address, visit | http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | > | > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | > | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html | From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 19:14:05 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:14:05 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> <002001c40323$e0c71a60$1da33c42@quiknet.com> <000a01c40378$e1ff99c0$6500a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <002c01c403af$32228620$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Wayne, Yes, I agree that fuel lines passing through the firewall should make use of bulkhead fittings. I will also use bulkhead fittings if either of my oil cooler lines pass directly through the firewall, rather than through the duct openings. However, we were talking about the oil cooler lines, control cables, and instrument wires that will come out of the ducts. I don't really like the concept of the fairly large duct openings into the engine compartment, so I'm leaning toward minimizing the number of various types of lines that use that route, then closing the duct openings up as completely as possible. Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:45 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > Several years ago a Velocity went down in a Georgia cornfield when a fellow > ran a "braid protected" fuel line through the firewall without benefit of a > bulkhead fitting. > Wayne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KeithHallsten" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:36 PM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > > I'm just starting on running the cables, tubes and hoses, so I'm not yet > sure how much stuff I will have coming out of the ducts. Since I'm building > a fixed-gear XL, I have the option of running quite a bit of stuff down the > keel - some of it will then go through the firewall instead of out the duct > openings. My vague intent is to wrap the wires and tubes with cut-up pieces > of firesleeve at duct openings, then fill the remaining spaces with fire > putty (or some such material) and cover it with SS sheet. It's also > possible that I may end up using one of the larger pass-through fittings > from EPM-AV Corp mounted to the SS sheet covering the duct openings. We > will see how this works out in practice! > Keith Hallsten > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Pat Shea" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:25 PM > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > > > > > Hi Keith, > > > In terms of fireproofing, what are you planning on > > > doing w/ the duct openings on the lower firewall? From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 19:50:37 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dennis Martin) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:50:37 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Removing Spraylat on windows Message-ID: Duct tape wouldn't work on my windows. My hangar has a translucent roof, so baked on very hard in the summer. I found steam was the easy way to get 5 year hardened Spraylat off my windows. (Doing inside windows? This is the only way I found that worked). Why steam? Spraylat is water-based latex, so if you rehydrate it with steam, it will get pliable and behave like rubber again. Here's my procedure: 1) Rent a gallon-plus steam machine (for removing wall paper) from your local Ace Rents. Most all rental shops have them. I experimented with a cheap (1 qt. steamer), but it had to cool down 15 minutes every time I added water. IMPOSSIBLY SLOW. Try to rent it the night before; it may take you all day to do the inside windows. 2) Caution: Adding water to reservoir can be hazardous unless you release pressure carefully. The machine I rented had a heavy cast iron cap. To add water, I kept my face far away and used a long screw driver to lift the cap up slowly to release the steam. 3) The nozzle gets a bit hot - I wrapped it in a towel. 4) Start at very top of each window. Heat it up good and then peel a little bit of latex back, but don't break it off. (It goes very slowly at first). The best way is to peel the latex off like peeling an orange - but don't break off the peeling. As you get the peeling started, introduce more steam both inside and outside the peeling. 5) On my front window, I peeled back about 2 inches, and did that completely from side to side (about 8"-10" at a time). Once you get the peeling started, you just add steam both inside and outside the peeling, then pause a moment to let it rehydrate.. Then peel the skin back. Be sure to peel from top to bottom, and never tear the skin off. I have not removed the Spraylat on the outside of my windows, but I've experimented with VERY HOT WATER and beach towels. Just drape the hot towels over the window - they will slowly begin to rehydrate the latex. Good luck, Dennis Martin Chevy 4.5 Liter FG Elite From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 19:43:03 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Pat Shea) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:43:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) In-Reply-To: <002001c40323$e0c71a60$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <20040306194303.32087.qmail@web13704.mail.yahoo.com> Keith, Have you found a source for the fire putty? Thanks for the EPM-AV source - their 1" pass-through fitting is just what I needed. Pat --- KeithHallsten wrote: > I'm just starting on running the cables, tubes and > hoses, so I'm not yet > sure how much stuff I will have coming out of the > ducts. Since I'm building > a fixed-gear XL, I have the option of running quite > a bit of stuff down the > keel - some of it will then go through the firewall > instead of out the duct > openings. My vague intent is to wrap the wires and > tubes with cut-up pieces > of firesleeve at duct openings, then fill the > remaining spaces with fire > putty (or some such material) and cover it with SS > sheet. It's also > possible that I may end up using one of the larger > pass-through fittings > from EPM-AV Corp mounted to the SS sheet covering > the duct openings. We > will see how this works out in practice! > > Keith Hallsten __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 20:06:35 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jim Agnew) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:06:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Sealing Engine Bulkhead holes and ducts Message-ID: <20040306200635.90559.qmail@web41304.mail.yahoo.com> Good old RED high temp silicone gasket maker works just fine. Some places carry it in a pressurized container with a long caulking type nozzle that makes filling around things easy. Jim ===== James F. Agnew Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com Tampa, FL Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 20:23:10 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:23:10 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Sealing Engine Bulkhead holes and ducts References: <20040306200635.90559.qmail@web41304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801c403b8$d8190280$1da33c42@quiknet.com> As I recall, the electrical department at Home Depot has fire putty or caulk. You may have to ask the guy working the department - it's probably tucked away fairly unobtrusively. Any other supplier to commercial electricians would probably also have it. Keith Hallsten ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Agnew" To: "Velocity Reflector" Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:Sealing Engine Bulkhead holes and ducts > Good old RED high temp silicone gasket maker works just > fine. Some places carry it in a pressurized container with > a long caulking type nozzle that makes filling around > things easy. > Jim > > James F. Agnew > Jim_Agnew_2@Yahoo.Com > Tampa, FL > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Shea" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 11:43 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > Keith, > Have you found a source for the fire putty? Thanks for > the EPM-AV source - their 1" pass-through fitting is > just what I needed. > Pat From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 21:15:42 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (John Dibble) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:15:42 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) References: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> <002001c40323$e0c71a60$1da33c42@quiknet.com> <000a01c40378$e1ff99c0$6500a8c0@hppav> <002c01c403af$32228620$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <404A3F7E.13770A3C@bluefrog.com> Kieth, I've noticed that the duct gets warm from the oil lines and adds unwanted heat to the cabin in the summer. I'm considering ventilating mine. You might want to consider that before closing the oil line duct up. John KeithHallsten wrote: > so I'm leaning toward minimizing the number of various types of > lines that use that route, then closing the duct openings up as completely > as possible. > Keith From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 6 22:01:50 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:01:50 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations References: <20040305202558.70705.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> <002001c40323$e0c71a60$1da33c42@quiknet.com> <000a01c40378$e1ff99c0$6500a8c0@hppav> <002c01c403af$32228620$1da33c42@quiknet.com> <404A3F7E.13770A3C@bluefrog.com> Message-ID: <000a01c403c6$a08cb380$1da33c42@quiknet.com> John, Actually, I'm considering running the oil lines up the keel and insulating them. That keeps the heat out of the ducts entirely. This wouldn't be very feasible in an RG, but it may work for me. I haven't yet found insulation with a sufficiently high temperature rating, though. Anyone have a line on that item? Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Dibble" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:15 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Firewall penetrations (was Control Cables) > Keith, > I've noticed that the duct gets warm from the oil lines and adds unwanted heat to the > cabin in the summer. I'm considering ventilating mine. You might want to consider > that before closing the oil line duct up. > John > > KeithHallsten wrote: > > > so I'm leaning toward minimizing the number of various types of > > lines that use that route, then closing the duct openings up as completely > > as possible. > > Keith From reflector@tvbf.org Sun Mar 7 22:48:38 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (John Dibble) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:48:38 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Re: IVO breaker References: <7AFCCFE1-7063-11D8-83D5-000393BC26D4@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <404BA6C6.72BB0423@bluefrog.com> Thanks, Wayne, I can't find a breaker anywhere so I guess the poly switch is it. Deciding if I am comfortable is difficult. I don't know anything about the poly switch. Does it "trip" and reset itself, or simply limit the amount of current? From a non-technical, experience point of view, it has been in service for 285 hours and trouble-free during my 80 hours experience. In comparison, others who have a breaker report the the breaker trips sometimes and if not watched carefully the pitch may not be where it needs to be for takeoff. So from a practical point of view I think the poly switch is better although there may be some technical reasons why a breaker is better. One improvement I would like is to have an indicator when the pitch is fully fine (at at the travel limiter where the motor stalls) so I would not have to operate the motor in the stalled condition in order to be sure I have the pitch fully fine. John Wayne Lanza wrote: > HI John, > Unless you find an obvious breaker, I would surmise the following from > the picture: > > The red component is more than likely a surge/spike suppresser, If so > it will be > connected between the +12V and Ground terminals on the switch. > > The yellow device is probably a "Poly Switch", a type of solid state > circuit interrupter. > If so, one lead goes to the +12V terminal on the switch & the other > will be connected > to the A/C +12 volt bus. This makes the poly switch the only > protection that you will > have on the prop. Not too wise in my book... I don't care for SS > breakers in an A/C. > > If you are comfortable with this arrangement - fine. If you decide to > update your A/C > with a real circuit breaker, mount a 15A-20A breaker in the instrument > panel and get > rid of the poly switch. > > Fly Safe, > Wayne > __________________________________________________________________ From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 00:59:11 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Wayne Lanza) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:59:11 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Re: IVO breaker In-Reply-To: <404BA6C6.72BB0423@bluefrog.com> Message-ID: Hi John, The poly switch resets itself when the power is removed. Depending upon the way it is wired in your airplane it might be tripping at the end of travel and self resetting without your knowing. This is one of my major reservations with a poly switch, now consider that when it finally fails you will either loose control of the prop or it will hard fuse and you will have no protection. I am familiar with the physics of this type of semiconductor and feel it appropriate as an overload protection device in such products as an electric tooth brush or screw driver - not anything critical! This is as kind as I will be regarding the use of a poly switch in an aircraft. Nuff said... The reason that some guys find the breaker popped is because Ivo recommends using a 15A breaker which is OK, but if you keep the switch depressed too long after end of travel the current will increase to over 20A thus tripping the breaker. The real answer here is not a larger breaker but proper use of the prop control. -Which brings up your next question- To monitor end travel you could employ a current sensing shunt on the prop supply wire (+12V). With the addition of a detector circuit on the shunt, you could have a light come on when the current exceeds the normal run requirements. This should be simple to design and would give you the benefit of indicating both travel limits. Hope this helps, Wayne _________________________________________________________________ On Sunday, Mar 7, 2004, at 17:48 US/Eastern, John Dibble wrote: > Thanks, Wayne, > I can't find a breaker anywhere so I guess the poly switch is it. > Deciding > if I am comfortable is difficult. I don't know anything about the poly > switch. Does it "trip" and reset itself, or simply limit the amount of > current? From a non-technical, experience point of view, it has been > in > service for 285 hours and trouble-free during my 80 hours experience. > In > comparison, others who have a breaker report the the breaker trips > sometimes > and if not watched carefully the pitch may not be where it needs to be > for > takeoff. So from a practical point of view I think the poly switch is > better although there may be some technical reasons why a breaker is > better. > > One improvement I would like is to have an indicator when the pitch is > fully > fine (at at the travel limiter where the motor stalls) so I would not > have > to operate the motor in the stalled condition in order to be sure I > have the > pitch fully fine. > > John > > Wayne Lanza wrote: > >> HI John, >> Unless you find an obvious breaker, I would surmise the following >> from >> the picture: >>> The red component is more than likely a surge/spike suppresser, If so >> it will be >> connected between the +12V and Ground terminals on the switch. >>> The yellow device is probably a "Poly Switch", a type of solid state >> circuit interrupter. >> If so, one lead goes to the +12V terminal on the switch & the >> other >> will be connected >> to the A/C +12 volt bus. This makes the poly switch the only >> protection that you will >> have on the prop. Not too wise in my book... I don't care for SS >> breakers in an A/C. >> >> If you are comfortable with this arrangement - fine. If you decide >> to >> update your A/C >> with a real circuit breaker, mount a 15A-20A breaker in the instrument >> panel and get >> rid of the poly switch. >> >> Fly Safe, >> Wayne >> __________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 01:47:16 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (mike deeter) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:47:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: <002101c4037d$239b6b80$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <20040308014716.60447.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Ronnie and Pat: Thanks a bunch for your postings. I spoke to Alan on Friday and he gave me a bunch of info, most of it contained in the blurb Ronnie found in the archives. Pat, I wasn't clear as to my measurements. I agree w/ you in that I don't feel comfortable changing the wing/canard relationship if they're correct. My problem is both incidence jigs don't level at the same time and the difference is in the direction where they're closer in incidence than they should be. Probably not much but may bear changing. Hmm. Gives me lots of stuff to chew on but I feel I can at least make an informed decision as to what, if anything, to do. Thanks, Mike --- Ronnie Brown wrote: > I found this in the Archives. This is by Alan Shaw: > > At cruise I like a Velocity with 1/2" of reflex > single pilot. This rig > makes > for a faster cruise and slower landing. Your case > may be a little extreme > and > require 1/2 degree less incidence in the canard. A > quick fix is to put a > 1/32" washer on both outboard top wing bolts...thus > decreasing the > difference > between the incidence angle of the canard and main > wing. This way you can > test fly the change before you go through the hassle > of changing the canard. > > Like I said, I like a Velocity that requires full > forward trim and full > forward stick by the pilot when solo, wide open at > sea level. This will > leave > more elevator authority (flare!) when you are slow > and loaded. It should > also > trim fine at the lower indicated airspeeds of cruise > at 8,000' and above. > It's a common problem with new Velocities that the > new owners fly in this > unusual mode of solo, full throttle, low altitude > and then re-rig there A/C > to > "fix" this quirk that really just makes things > better on the slow end of the > flight envelope. > > With such a powerful canard some people are worried > about deep stall. Even > if > you could "make" it deep stall I doubt that you > push your canard past > normal > bucking into the violent bucking and rolling etc. > that normally precedes the > "big one". > > What prevents deep stall is not just as simple as > the difference in wing > loading between the two wings but all there > differences in characteristics > as > whole. That means incidence angle, aspect ratio, > camber, leading edge > radius > and many other lesser factors. In other words, if > you decrease the canard > incidence and/or cut it shorter (lower the aspect > ratio) then you have > actually increased two factors for deep stall > potential. On the other hand > this change has increased you wing loading on the > canard and also made it > harder for you to pull the nose up too high. If you > are confused so am I. > That's the problem there are so many variables each > with different > coefficients of influence over the wing > differential we are trying to > maintain while at the same time trying to get as > wide a flight envelope as > possible. > > The obvious is to keep the CG in front of the center > of lift. The problem > here is that the main wing/winglet is comprised of > four different airfoils, > incident angles and coefficient's of lift. So where > exactly is the center > of > lift?....well the experts don't seem to agree unless > they simplify with > rounded off "rules of thumb" that are far from the > truth. > > That's why the flight test that Dan, myself and > especially Jim Patton did > were > so important. When Jim "tickled the dragons tail", > as he put it, he found > the Velocity to have far more low speed stability > and aft CG capability than > its other "Easy" counter parts. As the head of > NASA's GA stall spin R&D > program for almost 20 years Jim has pushed > everything out there way past > it's > limits and should know. In his opinion the STD wing > Velocity is as good as > it > gets in the compromise between stall prevention and > performance. Personally > I > think the STD Velocity will endure the test of time > as one of aviation's > more > exceptional designs. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Shea" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:32 PM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage > Incidence > > > | Mike, > | > | I suspect you wouldn't want to change the > relative > | wing-to-canard incidence (deep stall issues, > etc.). > | Increasing the incidence of both, however, should > | cause the nose of the fuselage to be lower in > flight. > | In other words, both incidence jigs should still > | center - the fuselage would just need to be in a > more > | nose down attitude than before the incidence > change. > | > | Of course, the strakes are part of the wing and > are > | tied to the fuselage's attitude. Maybe the factory > | could advise you on how much, if any, change is > | reasonable. > | > | Pat > | > | --- mike deeter wrote: > | > Help for advice re: wing incidence > | > > | > I'm sure a bunch of folks have dealt with this > | > issue. > | > > | > My Std Elite RG flies fine but it also seems to > fly > | > a > | > bit fuselage-high in cruise. Several people, > | > including one guy w/ an identical Velocity and > | > set of wings (Alan Shaw's), have remarked on it. > I > | > think so, too, and since that must be a > high-drag > | > attitude I want to explore what (if anything, > since > | > it > | > flies fine) to do about it. > | > > | > If it's pertinent, my canard is 1/8" to 1/4" up > when > | > I'm flying in cruise with a midrange CG. > | > > | > Questions: > | > > | > 1. I measured the main wings versus the canard > using > | > Velocity's incidence jigs and my digital level > as a > | > standard and found my canard to be about 0.5 > degrees > | > leading edge low as compared to the main wing. > | > Would > | > raising the canard incidence 0.5 degrees have > the > | > effect of lowering the nose in cruise? > | > > | > 2. What about shimming the upper, outboard wing > | > bolt? > | > That would seem to raise the angle of incidence > of > | > the main wing chord slightly. Would that bring > the > | > nose down in cruise? I did measure my main > | > wing/fuselage relationship versus my friend's > | > Velocity > | > and found no appreciable difference. My > | > calculations > | > using geometric relations show a 0.030" shim > | > changing > | > the chord about 0.43 degrees. Significant? Can > I > | > get > | > away with just the outboard bolt or must I shim > the > | > inboard wing bolt as well? > | > > | > 3. Any other suggestions? > | > > === message truncated === ===== ******************************************* Mike Deeter N2011 Test Pilot iguanamagic@yahoo.com http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org ******************************************* __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 03:48:50 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Alex Balic) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:48:50 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: <20040308014716.60447.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike, the incidence of the canard relative to the wing should not change- what needs to change is the level line on the fuselage when you jig the flying surfaces- I will bet that you had the fuselage a bit nose high when you set the incidences of the wing and the canard- just point the nose lower, and then re- jig both surfaces, and the aircraft will fly with the nose more down and the relationship between the wing and the canard will remain the same. Alex working on exhaust system at the moment- fun, fun, fun -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of mike deeter Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 7:47 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Ronnie and Pat: Thanks a bunch for your postings. I spoke to Alan on Friday and he gave me a bunch of info, most of it contained in the blurb Ronnie found in the archives. Pat, I wasn't clear as to my measurements. I agree w/ you in that I don't feel comfortable changing the wing/canard relationship if they're correct. My problem is both incidence jigs don't level at the same time and the difference is in the direction where they're closer in incidence than they should be. Probably not much but may bear changing. Hmm. Gives me lots of stuff to chew on but I feel I can at least make an informed decision as to what, if anything, to do. Thanks, Mike --- Ronnie Brown wrote: > I found this in the Archives. This is by Alan Shaw: > > At cruise I like a Velocity with 1/2" of reflex > single pilot. This rig > makes > for a faster cruise and slower landing. Your case > may be a little extreme > and > require 1/2 degree less incidence in the canard. A > quick fix is to put a > 1/32" washer on both outboard top wing bolts...thus > decreasing the > difference > between the incidence angle of the canard and main > wing. This way you can > test fly the change before you go through the hassle > of changing the canard. > > Like I said, I like a Velocity that requires full > forward trim and full > forward stick by the pilot when solo, wide open at > sea level. This will > leave > more elevator authority (flare!) when you are slow > and loaded. It should > also > trim fine at the lower indicated airspeeds of cruise > at 8,000' and above. > It's a common problem with new Velocities that the > new owners fly in this > unusual mode of solo, full throttle, low altitude > and then re-rig there A/C > to > "fix" this quirk that really just makes things > better on the slow end of the > flight envelope. > > With such a powerful canard some people are worried > about deep stall. Even > if > you could "make" it deep stall I doubt that you > push your canard past > normal > bucking into the violent bucking and rolling etc. > that normally precedes the > "big one". > > What prevents deep stall is not just as simple as > the difference in wing > loading between the two wings but all there > differences in characteristics > as > whole. That means incidence angle, aspect ratio, > camber, leading edge > radius > and many other lesser factors. In other words, if > you decrease the canard > incidence and/or cut it shorter (lower the aspect > ratio) then you have > actually increased two factors for deep stall > potential. On the other hand > this change has increased you wing loading on the > canard and also made it > harder for you to pull the nose up too high. If you > are confused so am I. > That's the problem there are so many variables each > with different > coefficients of influence over the wing > differential we are trying to > maintain while at the same time trying to get as > wide a flight envelope as > possible. > > The obvious is to keep the CG in front of the center > of lift. The problem > here is that the main wing/winglet is comprised of > four different airfoils, > incident angles and coefficient's of lift. So where > exactly is the center > of > lift?....well the experts don't seem to agree unless > they simplify with > rounded off "rules of thumb" that are far from the > truth. > > That's why the flight test that Dan, myself and > especially Jim Patton did > were > so important. When Jim "tickled the dragons tail", > as he put it, he found > the Velocity to have far more low speed stability > and aft CG capability than > its other "Easy" counter parts. As the head of > NASA's GA stall spin R&D > program for almost 20 years Jim has pushed > everything out there way past > it's > limits and should know. In his opinion the STD wing > Velocity is as good as > it > gets in the compromise between stall prevention and > performance. Personally > I > think the STD Velocity will endure the test of time > as one of aviation's > more > exceptional designs. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Shea" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:32 PM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage > Incidence > > > | Mike, > | > | I suspect you wouldn't want to change the > relative > | wing-to-canard incidence (deep stall issues, > etc.). > | Increasing the incidence of both, however, should > | cause the nose of the fuselage to be lower in > flight. > | In other words, both incidence jigs should still > | center - the fuselage would just need to be in a > more > | nose down attitude than before the incidence > change. > | > | Of course, the strakes are part of the wing and > are > | tied to the fuselage's attitude. Maybe the factory > | could advise you on how much, if any, change is > | reasonable. > | > | Pat > | > | --- mike deeter wrote: > | > Help for advice re: wing incidence > | > > | > I'm sure a bunch of folks have dealt with this > | > issue. > | > > | > My Std Elite RG flies fine but it also seems to > fly > | > a > | > bit fuselage-high in cruise. Several people, > | > including one guy w/ an identical Velocity and > | > set of wings (Alan Shaw's), have remarked on it. > I > | > think so, too, and since that must be a > high-drag > | > attitude I want to explore what (if anything, > since > | > it > | > flies fine) to do about it. > | > > | > If it's pertinent, my canard is 1/8" to 1/4" up > when > | > I'm flying in cruise with a midrange CG. > | > > | > Questions: > | > > | > 1. I measured the main wings versus the canard > using > | > Velocity's incidence jigs and my digital level > as a > | > standard and found my canard to be about 0.5 > degrees > | > leading edge low as compared to the main wing. > | > Would > | > raising the canard incidence 0.5 degrees have > the > | > effect of lowering the nose in cruise? > | > > | > 2. What about shimming the upper, outboard wing > | > bolt? > | > That would seem to raise the angle of incidence > of > | > the main wing chord slightly. Would that bring > the > | > nose down in cruise? I did measure my main > | > wing/fuselage relationship versus my friend's > | > Velocity > | > and found no appreciable difference. My > | > calculations > | > using geometric relations show a 0.030" shim > | > changing > | > the chord about 0.43 degrees. Significant? Can > I > | > get > | > away with just the outboard bolt or must I shim > the > | > inboard wing bolt as well? > | > > | > 3. Any other suggestions? > | > > === message truncated === ===== ******************************************* Mike Deeter N2011 Test Pilot iguanamagic@yahoo.com http://iguanamagic.siegesmund.org ******************************************* __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 14:09:54 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Rich Guerra) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:09:54 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? Message-ID: To All: I'm considering moving to the Dallas area, probably north side, perhaps Plano. Before any serious negotiations can occur at possible job, the most important consideration must be addressed: a hangar for my Velocity! :-) Does anyone have inside scoop on hangar availability, airport environment, etc. in this area? Any places to be avoided? I know that there are a few VELO's around in Dallas. Mckinney (TKI), perhaps? Or maybe Addison, Dallas Love Field, Mesquite (HQZ)? Others? Any info appreciated. Rich Guerra Velocity XL RG N724X http://www.rguerra.com/velocity/ From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 14:28:34 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (v350tx) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:28:34 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? References: Message-ID: <003901c40519$a364a5a0$6501a8c0@UPSTAIRS> Check with WingsPoint at TKI in McKinney. I have my Velo at the MHOA hangers but at this time none are available. I will keep my eyes open for you. Dave Bertram ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Guerra" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:09 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? > To All: > I'm considering moving to the Dallas area, probably north side, > perhaps Plano. Before any serious negotiations can occur at possible > job, the most important consideration must be addressed: a hangar for > my Velocity! :-) > > Does anyone have inside scoop on hangar availability, airport > environment, etc. in this area? Any places to be avoided? I know > that there are a few VELO's around in Dallas. Mckinney (TKI), > perhaps? Or maybe Addison, Dallas Love Field, Mesquite (HQZ)? > Others? Any info appreciated. > > Rich Guerra > Velocity XL RG N724X > http://www.rguerra.com/velocity/ > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 14:41:41 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Al Gietzen) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:41:41 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c4051b$78b2dbe0$6400a8c0@BigAl> I had problems with my incidence gauges (warped), and I asked Mark Machado at Velocity (when he still worked there) what the incidence angles really were. Here is the reply: ---------- -Could not find any documentation regarding incidence angles so we measured the jigs. The results are as follows (the data should be considered preliminary): canard - 4.6 degrees positive incidence standard wing - 0.6 degrees positive incidence LW wing - 0.9 degrees positive incidence The incidence angle is based on the chord line of each individual airflow and its relationship to a level line. Positive is above level; negative would be below level. Margin of error: probably plus/minus .1 degree on each measurement. ------------ As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence measurements is crucial. FWIW, Al From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 14:45:01 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Milton Merskey) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:45:01 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? References: Message-ID: <000a01c4051b$efe8be00$5e02a8c0@MILTON> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Guerra" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:09 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? > To All: > I'm considering moving to the Dallas area, probably north side, > perhaps Plano. Before any serious negotiations can occur at possible > job, the most important consideration must be addressed: a hangar for > my Velocity! :-) > > Does anyone have inside scoop on hangar availability, airport > environment, etc. in this area? Any places to be avoided? I know > that there are a few VELO's around in Dallas. Mckinney (TKI), TKI is fine at $300. per month HQZ is good. I am not sure of their availability or price. Hard surface everywhere. ADS very busy. Waiting in line in the summer may cause heating probems for your engine. plus hangars are are few. > Or maybe Addison, Dallas Love Field, Mesquite (HQZ)? Denton is available at a fair price. Sherman/Denison available. The FBO is called Voyager and owned by Al Rinehart Love Field busy & few hangars and lots of money Stay away from Aero Country. Gravel and short runway. Milt ch Guerra > Velocity XL RG N724X > http://www.rguerra.com/velocity/ > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 15:24:29 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Alex Balic) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:24:29 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rich, If you are completed with construction, (or at least sanding) Ron Gowan has a hanger at Denton- he invited me a while back, but I am still making a lot of dust, and he has several finished EZs in there already. Also at Denton, there are some older hangers (read inexpensive) that I am in, and they have vacancies from time to time, unknown at this time about that. and there are some new ones out there as well with vacancies, but I think that they are about $250/mo with concrete floor, running water, elec included. Nice field though, long runway, flat topo, and brand new tower. Bunch of experimentals too- Alex -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Rich Guerra Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:10 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? To All: I'm considering moving to the Dallas area, probably north side, perhaps Plano. Before any serious negotiations can occur at possible job, the most important consideration must be addressed: a hangar for my Velocity! :-) Does anyone have inside scoop on hangar availability, airport environment, etc. in this area? Any places to be avoided? I know that there are a few VELO's around in Dallas. Mckinney (TKI), perhaps? Or maybe Addison, Dallas Love Field, Mesquite (HQZ)? Others? Any info appreciated. Rich Guerra Velocity XL RG N724X http://www.rguerra.com/velocity/ _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 15:51:24 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jim Sower) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:51:24 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence References: <002201c4051b$78b2dbe0$6400a8c0@BigAl> Message-ID: <404C967C.263F9F7E@frontiernet.net> <... As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence measurements is crucial ...> How does one level the fuselage of an XL? My keel is upholstered and doesn't have a notably smooth surface under the carpeting. Don't see how it would be a really accurate (+- 1 deg?) reference. On pre-purchase inspection, builder had jigs for wing and canard that we put on - leveled the airplane to the wing jig and checked to see if the canard jig was level (it was). That's all I was given. Builder told me there was no place like a fuselage reference (longerons ala 173) to use with XL doors (my airplane started off as a 173 and was later retrofitted with gull wing XL doors). Been wonderin' for quite a while ... Jim S. Al Gietzen wrote: > I had problems with my incidence gauges (warped), and I asked Mark > Machado at Velocity (when he still worked there) what the incidence > angles really were. Here is the reply: > ---------- > -Could not find any documentation regarding incidence angles so we > measured > the jigs. The results are as follows (the data should be considered > preliminary): > > canard - 4.6 degrees positive incidence > standard wing - 0.6 degrees positive incidence > LW wing - 0.9 degrees positive incidence > > The incidence angle is based on the chord line of each individual > airflow > and its relationship to a level line. Positive is above level; negative > would be > below level. > > Margin of error: probably plus/minus .1 degree on each measurement. > ------------ > > As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence > measurements is crucial. > > FWIW, > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html -- Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything Crossville, TN; Chapter 5 Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 18:29:55 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:29:55 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? Message-ID: <689FDCA1.0BF373AE.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> > I'm considering moving to the Dallas area What part of town are you going to work in? I live in Frisco (next town north of Plano). Dallas Love Field (DAL) should be avoided. Very high priced and has gone 911 security nuts. It has become a real pain to be there which I think fits right into their plans. They really don't like recips there. (one FBO manager on DAL actually told me "no recips allowed!") Addison (ADS) is a DAL wanna be. The airport management is really going out of their way to run the recip folks off! They ran me off! They expect you to insure their hanger and you can't fuel under $3 gallon at any of the FBO's. Last I checked they do have hangers and it was because they had a mass exodus over their insurance policies. McKinney (TKI) is a nice place- good facilities and fairly GA friendly. They could do better but at least they don't act like you are not even wanted like DAL and ADS do. Rent is a whopping $375 (They raised rates after everyone left ADS) for a t-hanger with concrete floor, one light bulb, one electric outlet and no water. Workable but I think the price it out of touch for what you get. (IMHO) Still this is where I moved to from ADS. Could be better at TKI but it is still better than ADS to be sure. As Milt noted, Aero Country is fine for a spam can but not a Velo! In fact, that is where I earned my DM rating! :-) We were out there last weekend and the gouges my folded front fork made in the asphalt of hiway 720 are still there! Depending on how close you are to flying though it could be an excellent place to build then move to a longer runway when you are ready to fly? What part of town are you going to work in? That could the drive the decision some? Alex mentioned $250 at Denton! (DTN) that perked my ears up. I have fueled at Denton a few times and it is a nice place but it's about a 45 minute drive from where I live (Frisco). That nice long smooth runway with open fields all around would be a truly suburb spot for first flights! If you moved to Flower Mound then DTN would be fairly close I think. (and Flower Mound is quite popular right now) Redbird (RBD) south of Downtown Dallas has open hangers and cheap rent. I go to the avionics shop there and I do like the place even though it is a bit run down. If it was not such a long drive (over an hour) I would be there. Depending on where you are going to be working at south is a neglected option so real estate and airports are cheaper to the south. If you are not going to do your panel on your own then the avionics shop there does top notch work with lower than average prices. And they love experimental (the owner fly's one) Mesquite- I don't have much info to offer. I just have not been over there much and not at all in the last 5 years. Overall, other than the traffic and the summer heat, I think you will like the Dallas area a lot. 5 years ago I may not have said that but for the last few years I travel on business quite a bit so and have spent time in a lot of other cities so with a lot of comparisons in mind I can say the DFW area is a pretty nice place! Rob From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 20:20:40 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:20:40 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? Message-ID: <78.5202e9d6.2d7e2f98@aol.com> -------------------------------1078777240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/8/2004 7:27:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, alex157@direcway.com writes: Any places to be avoided? My ex moved to the Dallas area a year ago. TEC -------------------------------1078777240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 3/8/2004 7:27:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, alex157@d= irecway.com writes:
Any places to be avoided?
<= /DIV>
My ex moved to the Dallas area a year ago. 
 
 
TEC
-------------------------------1078777240-- From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 8 21:15:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:15:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Hangars? In-Reply-To: <78.5202e9d6.2d7e2f98@aol.com> References: <78.5202e9d6.2d7e2f98@aol.com> Message-ID: <2987.69.15.24.246.1078780528.squirrel@webmail.airmail.net> > In a message dated 3/8/2004 7:27:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, > alex157@direcway.com writes: > Any places to be avoided? > My ex moved to the Dallas area a year ago. > > > TEC > Avoid Dave's Dew Drop Inn. Many Ex'es hang out there. Milt From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 02:11:13 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Pat Shea) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:11:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: <404C967C.263F9F7E@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <20040309021113.81458.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com> Jim, There is a description & diagram of how to level the fuselage at the beginning of chapter 4 in the new manuals (on-line). You would want to use the regular chapter version, not the XL, for your application as the overall dimensions and measurements are different. In short (non-XL): Use a water level to place the middle of the fuselage nose at the same level as the lowest section of the lower cowl back edge (in the middle, by the spinner). Another reference is the firewall and canard bulkheads - they should be perpendicular to the fuselage level line. Pat --- Jim Sower wrote: > How does one level the fuselage of an XL? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 02:43:30 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Bill Medsker) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:43:30 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited Message-ID: <404D2F52.000054.03972@MEDSKER1> --------------Boundary-00=_IKFA71O5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_IKFA2CS5BHK000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_IKFA2CS5BHK000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D I have a friend who works in the insurance business whom I've always give= n a real hard time because they wouldn't insure Velocity's.. He called the ot= her day to politely (?) inform me they are now insuring Velocity's!! =0D =0D Not sure how they compare to others out there, may be more of the same.. = But another place to try for those of you that might be interested.. He works for Professional Insurance Management in Wichita, Ks. 800-826-4442, ask = for Randy.. =0D =0D Not that it will do any good, you can mention my name.. Also point out th= at you don't intend to stall and spin in (which is acceptable if it's certified).. He's heard it before ...=0D =0D Bill Medsker From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 04:12:24 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Fred Marconi) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:12:24 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence References: <002201c4051b$78b2dbe0$6400a8c0@BigAl> Message-ID: <001101c4058c$b9d7bb60$6700a8c0@thebeach.net> I used the jigs provided by Velocity and measured and remeasured. On March 1 my bird, N244FM, took to the air for the first time. Mike Manary, the test pilot and Many Lewis have found the plane to fly straight. No adjustments will need to be made to any of the flying surfaces. The coaching that I have received from the factory has provided me with an airplane that flies straight, brakes as well as this type of plane should be expected to brake, no hydraulic leaks, no sediment in the fuel tank. The only concerns; oil seapage from somewhere in the engine case and high engine temperatures which is to be expected. Areas where I received help that may have made a difference: - Bonding of the center spar & sealing the fuel cells- Prudhomme -Preparation of the wings for primer - Prudhomme and Ruben Leon. Ruben had me sand my arms off and remove as much of the balloon as possible and follow the form of the wing as set by the foam. -Orientation of the winglets - Prudhomme and the use of company jigs and then measurement and remesurement. -Don George for a great engine- after 7 hours the oil is still clean and no perceptible loss. The plane flew over 200 Kts with no flutter or bad signs. Mad Mike did aileron rolls to left & right, wing overs, it was a joy to see it fly in the chase plane. Following the factory specks and paying attention to detail paid dividends. Scott Baker, The Swings and everyone at the factory have been a fenomenal support. There is a long list of friends to thank that have been an inspiration and support, to name a few: Don White, Rick Jankowsky, Peter Laurence, Ricardo Salinas, Charlie Kuss and all the guys in the North West Field at HWO, & subscribers to the REFLECTOR. Fred N244FM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Gietzen" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > I had problems with my incidence gauges (warped), and I asked Mark > Machado at Velocity (when he still worked there) what the incidence > angles really were. Here is the reply: > ---------- > -Could not find any documentation regarding incidence angles so we > measured > the jigs. The results are as follows (the data should be considered > preliminary): > > canard - 4.6 degrees positive incidence > standard wing - 0.6 degrees positive incidence > LW wing - 0.9 degrees positive incidence > > The incidence angle is based on the chord line of each individual > airflow > and its relationship to a level line. Positive is above level; negative > would be > below level. > > Margin of error: probably plus/minus .1 degree on each measurement. > ------------ > > As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence > measurements is crucial. > > FWIW, > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 04:17:08 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:17:08 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-220043294178910@earthlink.net> From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 04:19:23 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:19:23 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-2200432941923860@earthlink.net> From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 04:19:57 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:19:57 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-2200432941957480@earthlink.net> From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 04:23:37 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:23:37 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-2200432942337350@earthlink.net> From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 04:27:10 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:27:10 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-2200432942710680@earthlink.net> From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 08:39:54 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Greg Poole) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:39:54 +1100 Subject: REFLECTOR:RE: Another Velocity Punches (Punctures?) the Air. References: <002201c4051b$78b2dbe0$6400a8c0@BigAl> <001101c4058c$b9d7bb60$6700a8c0@thebeach.net> Message-ID: <004701c405b2$194c60d0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> Hey Fred, Thanks - your words are inspiring to us that still aspire to make the grade....flight! Glad to hear your bird flies straight and true ...all the rest is up to the pilot - you! Read; Jealous as all heck & wanting pictures! Greg in Sydney Std RG E Velo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Marconi" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > I used the jigs provided by Velocity and measured and remeasured. > > On March 1 my bird, N244FM, took to the air for the first time. Mike > Manary, the test pilot and Many Lewis have found the plane to fly straight. > No adjustments will need to be made to any of the flying surfaces. The > coaching that I have received from the factory has provided me with an > airplane that flies straight, brakes as well as this type of plane should be > expected to brake, no hydraulic leaks, no sediment in the fuel tank. The > only concerns; oil seapage from somewhere in the engine case and high engine > temperatures which is to be expected. > > Areas where I received help that may have made a difference: > > - Bonding of the center spar & sealing the fuel cells- Prudhomme > -Preparation of the wings for primer - Prudhomme and Ruben Leon. Ruben > had me sand my arms off and remove as much of the balloon as possible and > follow the form of the wing as set by the foam. > -Orientation of the winglets - Prudhomme and the use of company jigs and > then measurement and remesurement. > -Don George for a great engine- after 7 hours the oil is still clean and > no perceptible loss. > > The plane flew over 200 Kts with no flutter or bad signs. Mad Mike did > aileron rolls to left & right, wing overs, it was a joy to see it fly in the > chase plane. > > Following the factory specks and paying attention to detail paid > dividends. Scott Baker, The Swings and everyone at the factory have been a > fenomenal support. > > There is a long list of friends to thank that have been an inspiration and > support, to name a few: Don White, Rick Jankowsky, Peter Laurence, Ricardo > Salinas, Charlie Kuss and all the guys in the North West Field at HWO, & > subscribers to the REFLECTOR. > > Fred > N244FM > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Gietzen" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:41 AM > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > > > > I had problems with my incidence gauges (warped), and I asked Mark > > Machado at Velocity (when he still worked there) what the incidence > > angles really were. Here is the reply: > > ---------- > > -Could not find any documentation regarding incidence angles so we > > measured > > the jigs. The results are as follows (the data should be considered > > preliminary): > > > > canard - 4.6 degrees positive incidence > > standard wing - 0.6 degrees positive incidence > > LW wing - 0.9 degrees positive incidence > > > > The incidence angle is based on the chord line of each individual > > airflow > > and its relationship to a level line. Positive is above level; negative > > would be > > below level. > > > > Margin of error: probably plus/minus .1 degree on each measurement. > > ------------ > > > > As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence > > measurements is crucial. > > > > FWIW, > > > > Al > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 08:54:10 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 01:54:10 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-2200432985410960@earthlink.net> From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 12:59:19 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Chuck Jensen) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:59:19 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Punching the Ticket Message-ID: We could say we're proud of you but that can only be a fraction of the well-deserved satisfaction you feel. May all you landings be smooth and your FBO have $2.00 avgas. -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Fred Marconi Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:12 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence I used the jigs provided by Velocity and measured and remeasured. On March 1 my bird, N244FM, took to the air for the first time. Mike Manary, the test pilot and Many Lewis have found the plane to fly straight. No adjustments will need to be made to any of the flying surfaces. The coaching that I have received from the factory has provided me with an airplane that flies straight, brakes as well as this type of plane should be expected to brake, no hydraulic leaks, no sediment in the fuel tank. The only concerns; oil seapage from somewhere in the engine case and high engine temperatures which is to be expected. Areas where I received help that may have made a difference: - Bonding of the center spar & sealing the fuel cells- Prudhomme -Preparation of the wings for primer - Prudhomme and Ruben Leon. Ruben had me sand my arms off and remove as much of the balloon as possible and follow the form of the wing as set by the foam. -Orientation of the winglets - Prudhomme and the use of company jigs and then measurement and remesurement. -Don George for a great engine- after 7 hours the oil is still clean and no perceptible loss. The plane flew over 200 Kts with no flutter or bad signs. Mad Mike did aileron rolls to left & right, wing overs, it was a joy to see it fly in the chase plane. Following the factory specks and paying attention to detail paid dividends. Scott Baker, The Swings and everyone at the factory have been a fenomenal support. There is a long list of friends to thank that have been an inspiration and support, to name a few: Don White, Rick Jankowsky, Peter Laurence, Ricardo Salinas, Charlie Kuss and all the guys in the North West Field at HWO, & subscribers to the REFLECTOR. Fred N244FM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Gietzen" To: Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > I had problems with my incidence gauges (warped), and I asked Mark > Machado at Velocity (when he still worked there) what the incidence > angles really were. Here is the reply: > ---------- > -Could not find any documentation regarding incidence angles so we > measured > the jigs. The results are as follows (the data should be considered > preliminary): > > canard - 4.6 degrees positive incidence > standard wing - 0.6 degrees positive incidence > LW wing - 0.9 degrees positive incidence > > The incidence angle is based on the chord line of each individual > airflow > and its relationship to a level line. Positive is above level; negative > would be > below level. > > Margin of error: probably plus/minus .1 degree on each measurement. > ------------ > > As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence > measurements is crucial. > > FWIW, > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 14:01:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Brian Michalk) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:01:28 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence In-Reply-To: <410-2200432941957480@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Tell us how you really feel. Brian Michalk Life is what you make of it ... never wish you had done something. Aviator, experimental aircraft builder, motorcyclist, SCUBA diver musician, home-brewer, entrepreneur and barely single > -----Original Message----- > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On > Behalf Of Donald Royer > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:20 PM > To: reflector@tvbf.org > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 14:10:18 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dennis Martin) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:10:18 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:RE: Another Velocity Punches (Punctures?) the Air. In-Reply-To: <004701c405b2$194c60d0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> References: <002201c4051b$78b2dbe0$6400a8c0@BigAl> <001101c4058c$b9d7bb60$6700a8c0@thebeach.net> <004701c405b2$194c60d0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> Message-ID: Fred, Kudos. Keep flying straight and true. Dennis Martin >Hey Fred, > >Thanks - your words are inspiring to us that still aspire to make the >grade....flight! > >Glad to hear your bird flies straight and true ...all the rest is up to the >pilot - you! > >Read; Jealous as all heck & wanting pictures! > >Greg in Sydney >Std RG E Velo. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Fred Marconi" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:12 PM >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > > >> I used the jigs provided by Velocity and measured and remeasured. >> >> On March 1 my bird, N244FM, took to the air for the first time. Mike >> Manary, the test pilot and Many Lewis have found the plane to fly >straight. >> No adjustments will need to be made to any of the flying surfaces. The >> coaching that I have received from the factory has provided me with an >> airplane that flies straight, brakes as well as this type of plane should >be >> expected to brake, no hydraulic leaks, no sediment in the fuel tank. The >> only concerns; oil seapage from somewhere in the engine case and high >engine >> temperatures which is to be expected. >> >> Areas where I received help that may have made a difference: >> >> - Bonding of the center spar & sealing the fuel cells- Prudhomme >> -Preparation of the wings for primer - Prudhomme and Ruben Leon. Ruben >> had me sand my arms off and remove as much of the balloon as possible and >> follow the form of the wing as set by the foam. >> -Orientation of the winglets - Prudhomme and the use of company jigs and >> then measurement and remesurement. >> -Don George for a great engine- after 7 hours the oil is still clean and >> no perceptible loss. >> >> The plane flew over 200 Kts with no flutter or bad signs. Mad Mike did >> aileron rolls to left & right, wing overs, it was a joy to see it fly in >the >> chase plane. >> >> Following the factory specks and paying attention to detail paid >> dividends. Scott Baker, The Swings and everyone at the factory have been >a >> fenomenal support. >> >> There is a long list of friends to thank that have been an inspiration >and >> support, to name a few: Don White, Rick Jankowsky, Peter Laurence, Ricardo >> Salinas, Charlie Kuss and all the guys in the North West Field at HWO, & >> subscribers to the REFLECTOR. >> >> Fred >> N244FM >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Al Gietzen" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:41 AM >> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence >> >> >> > I had problems with my incidence gauges (warped), and I asked Mark >> > Machado at Velocity (when he still worked there) what the incidence >> > angles really were. Here is the reply: >> > ---------- >> > -Could not find any documentation regarding incidence angles so we >> > measured >> > the jigs. The results are as follows (the data should be considered >> > preliminary): >> > >> > canard - 4.6 degrees positive incidence >> > standard wing - 0.6 degrees positive incidence >> > LW wing - 0.9 degrees positive incidence >> > >> > The incidence angle is based on the chord line of each individual >> > airflow >> > and its relationship to a level line. Positive is above level; >negative >> > would be >> > below level. >> > >> > Margin of error: probably plus/minus .1 degree on each measurement. >> > ------------ >> > >> > As Alex suggests; leveling the fuselage when making incidence >> > measurements is crucial. >> > >> > FWIW, >> > >> > Al >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To change your email address, visit >> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector >> > >> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery >> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose >> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail >> > Check old archives: >http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > >> _______________________________________________ >> To change your email address, visit >http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector >> >> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery >> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose >> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail >> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > >_______________________________________________ >To change your email address, visit >http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > >Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery >user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose >Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail >Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 19:35:23 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tom Martino) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:35:23 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Message-ID: Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 20:03:40 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (=?utf-8?B?Q2h1Y2sgSmVuc2Vu?=) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:03:40 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:=?utf-8?B?UkU6IFJFRkxFQ1RPUjpBSUxFUk9OIENPTlRST0wgRk9SQ0U=?= Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C40611.A123EAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Flying or setting on the ground? On the ground, my experience is they should move very freely with movement generated by fingertip pressures. In the air (and particularly since I put my gap seals on), the movement is very firm. Unfortunately, I don't have a good frame of reference compared to others who've built and flown many. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Tom Martino Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:35 PM To: reflector@www.tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 23:26:18 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:26:18 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE References: Message-ID: <002001c4062d$eccd77c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> I guess it hard to quantify just how stiff a new set up is unless you get a spring scale out and do a pull test. I'd have to agree that mine were a bit stiff when I first installed everything. I went back and made sure all of the cable clamps kept the jackets straight with the inner cable. I had bought a couple of high temp cables from England when a quantity order was put together by a fellow builder. I found one of my original cables and one of the new cables were stiffer than the remaining cables, so I used the freer cables - one original Velocity and one from England. They were still a bit stiff. After flying for a year, they have loosened up some. It flies just fine considering this is a cross country plane and not aerobatic. And of course the elevator is stiff when moving against the trim spring. But in the air, it all works fine. If you want to get some quantitative data, I can measure my stick force to move the ailerons and report back. Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Martino" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE | Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! | | I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. | | So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? | | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 9 23:35:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:35:28 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals Message-ID: <004301c4062f$34ad03c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C40605.4B830F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been having problems accessing the online manuals. Brendon says = they seem to be working ok from the factory. Could some of you check and see if you can access the manuals at: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/manuals/manuals.html I am getting an error message saying I need to provide a user name and = pass word, but I never get the user name and password screen. THANKS From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 00:23:38 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Phil Hooper) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:23:38 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals In-Reply-To: <004301c4062f$34ad03c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <019201c40635$f548aa70$6501a8c0@HOOPGATEWAY> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0193_01C405F2.E7256A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I looked at the KPC replacement pages yesterday and they were fine. = Just checked the manuals, worked. =20 -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On = Behalf Of Ronnie Brown Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:35 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals =20 I have been having problems accessing the online manuals. Brendon says = they seem to be working ok from the factory. =20 Could some of you check and see if you can access the manuals at: =20 http://www.velocityaircraft.com/manuals/manuals.html =20 I am getting an error message saying I need to provide a user name and = pass word, but I never get the user name and password screen. =20 THANKS From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 00:44:03 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:44:03 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence Message-ID: <410-2200433100443520@earthlink.net> Sorry about that. The stupid earthlink software go me. I was getting an error message that my message was not being sent, but it didn't tell me that it was sending out a blank message, and so I kept trying. I have reinstalled the damm stuff for the second time in three months and I hope that it is working now. Don > [Original Message] > From: Brian Michalk > To: > Date: 3/9/04 6:57:04 AM > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > > Tell us how you really feel. > > Brian Michalk > Life is what you make of it ... never wish you had done something. > Aviator, experimental aircraft builder, motorcyclist, SCUBA diver > musician, home-brewer, entrepreneur and barely single > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On > > Behalf Of Donald Royer > > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:20 PM > > To: reflector@tvbf.org > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Wing/Canard/Fuselage Incidence > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To change your email address, visit > > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 00:47:11 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Baker) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:47:11 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE References: Message-ID: <001501c40639$3c1b9680$0200a8c0@DAD> Tom, How do things feel with the aileron cables disconnected (at the back of the keel and inside the engine compartment)? Does the stick flop back and forth without resistance? How are the ailerons balanced? Do they droop below the trailing edge of the wings and is their movement almost "frictionless"? Do the push-pull cables themselves move freely? In other words is the control resistance specific to the aileron cables - or are there other contributing causes? Here are some things I would check: 1) Make sure the hinges are lubricated (use Silicone lubricant on wings that are painted - or a petroleum based lubricant if the aircraft is still in primer). 2) The aileron torque tube movement inside of the wing is not concentric. The hole (cavity) inside the foam sometimes needs to be enlarged to keep the torque tube from rubbing against the foam when the ailerons are moving. This is best inspected with the wings off of the aircraft. With the aileron and aileron torque tube attached, look down the cavity (from the vantage of the wing root) and take a look-see if the tt is rubbing. The aileron torque tube (inside the wing) has a union that features two bolts and nuts - this area of the tt is larger than the naked tubing and it sometimes rubs against the foam inside the wing. Use a "ram rod" (broomstick) kind of device with sticky-back sand paper - and work on removing the foam where it is required. Make sure the foam doesn't interfere with the tt operation through it's full range of motion. 3) Check the routing of the push-pull cables - making sure there are no sharp bends as it travels from the keel through the firewall. Too sharp of a bend will greatly increase the resistance in the cable movement. You may need to re-route the cables to get a more gentle (more friction free) approach. 4) Are the control bearings inside of the keel aligned? If not, you will feel resistance in the side-to-side movement of the stick. 5) Make sure the rod ends are not binding on a) the keel aileron horn and b) the aileron tt horns coming out of the wing. You may require a few small washers between the rod end and the aileron horn to keep things from pinching. Ronnie is correct, the cables will have some initial resistance when new - and become more free with time. Still ... you need to feel comfortable with the aileron movement. Reserve final judgment on this until after you fly and take note of the how the aircraft "feels". Call us at the factory and we can help you brainstorm this further. Best regards, Scott B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Martino" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! > > I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. > > So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 00:57:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Baker) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:57:26 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE References: <001501c40639$3c1b9680$0200a8c0@DAD> Message-ID: <001f01c4063a$aa6a75b0$0200a8c0@DAD> I wanted to offer a clarification to an earlier post where I said ... "How are the ailerons balanced? Do they droop below the trailing edge of the wings and is their movement almost 'frictionless'?" When properly balanced, the trailing edge of the ailerons should rise slightly above the trailing edge of the wings. I was wanting to say that IF the ailerons on Tom's aircraft drooped below the trailing edge of the main wings, then this is a problem. Besides inviting flutter, an aileron that is not balanced may also contribute to greater stick forces - which is what we are trying to trouble shoot from Tom's message. Scott B. From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 02:18:47 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:18:47 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals References: <019201c40635$f548aa70$6501a8c0@HOOPGATEWAY> Message-ID: <006f01c40646$05850ea0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C4061C.1C3060C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Phil. The problem must be on my end. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Phil Hooper=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals I looked at the KPC replacement pages yesterday and they were fine. = Just checked the manuals, worked. -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On = Behalf Of Ronnie Brown Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:35 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals I have been having problems accessing the online manuals. Brendon = says they seem to be working ok from the factory. Could some of you check and see if you can access the manuals at: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/manuals/manuals.html I am getting an error message saying I need to provide a user name and = pass word, but I never get the user name and password screen. THANKS From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 02:24:29 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:24:29 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals References: <019201c40635$f548aa70$6501a8c0@HOOPGATEWAY> Message-ID: <007701c40646$d10d3e80$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0074_01C4061C.E7FBB420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, it is working now. I reset my internet security options to default = - and now it works. (don't know how they got changed???) Ronnie ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Phil Hooper=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:23 PM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals I looked at the KPC replacement pages yesterday and they were fine. = Just checked the manuals, worked. -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On = Behalf Of Ronnie Brown Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:35 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:On Line Manuals I have been having problems accessing the online manuals. Brendon = says they seem to be working ok from the factory. Could some of you check and see if you can access the manuals at: http://www.velocityaircraft.com/manuals/manuals.html I am getting an error message saying I need to provide a user name and = pass word, but I never get the user name and password screen. THANKS From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 08:44:47 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tom Martino) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:44:47 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE [text] Message-ID: Without the cables installed (behind the center keel) the stick flops back and forth with virtually no resistance. The ailerons move easily as well -- when the cables are not hooked up. I believe the cables are the problem. I have brand new Cablecraft cables made -- supposedly high quality with low friction and efficient in tight bends. My cable routing is a gentle curve from the keel out to the wing root. The auto pilot servo is hooked up with a push rod ... but doesn't seem to add much resistance. But when you add everything up ... it is stiff! However, the movement is smooth. Thanks for all the tips. I will check each and every item again. -----Original Message----- From: Scott Baker [mailto:sbakr@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 5:47 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE [text] Tom, How do things feel with the aileron cables disconnected (at the back of the keel and inside the engine compartment)? Does the stick flop back and forth without resistance? How are the ailerons balanced? Do they droop below the trailing edge of the wings and is their movement almost "frictionless"? Do the push-pull cables themselves move freely? In other words is the control resistance specific to the aileron cables - or are there other contributing causes? Here are some things I would check: 1) Make sure the hinges are lubricated (use Silicone lubricant on wings that are painted - or a petroleum based lubricant if the aircraft is still in primer). 2) The aileron torque tube movement inside of the wing is not concentric. The hole (cavity) inside the foam sometimes needs to be enlarged to keep the torque tube from rubbing against the foam when the ailerons are moving. This is best inspected with the wings off of the aircraft. With the aileron and aileron torque tube attached, look down the cavity (from the vantage of the wing root) and take a look-see if the tt is rubbing. The aileron torque tube (inside the wing) has a union that features two bolts and nuts - this area of the tt is larger than the naked tubing and it sometimes rubs against the foam inside the wing. Use a "ram rod" (broomstick) kind of device with sticky-back sand paper - and work on removing the foam where it is required. Make sure the foam doesn't interfere with the tt operation through it's full range of motion. 3) Check the routing of the push-pull cables - making sure there are no sharp bends as it travels from the keel through the firewall. Too sharp of a bend will greatly increase the resistance in the cable movement. You may need to re-route the cables to get a more gentle (more friction free) approach. 4) Are the control bearings inside of the keel aligned? If not, you will feel resistance in the side-to-side movement of the stick. 5) Make sure the rod ends are not binding on a) the keel aileron horn and b) the aileron tt horns coming out of the wing. You may require a few small washers between the rod end and the aileron horn to keep things from pinching. Ronnie is correct, the cables will have some initial resistance when new - and become more free with time. Still ... you need to feel comfortable with the aileron movement. Reserve final judgment on this until after you fly and take note of the how the aircraft "feels". Call us at the factory and we can help you brainstorm this further. Best regards, Scott B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Martino" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! > > I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. > > So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 17:22:07 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Al Gietzen) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:22:07 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c406c4$36fe5210$6400a8c0@BigAl> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C40681.28DB1210 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ubject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! My system moved very freely with the original cables. When I changed over to the current heavier-duty high-temp cables, it took about 1 - 1 1/4 lbs of side force on the stick to make them move; pretty much all drag in the cables. I was concerned, but Scott B assured me that this was fine, and that they would loosen up. I think they move a bit more freely now after being in there a few months and played with now and then (and I haven't flown yet). Al From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 17:42:07 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:42:07 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Message-ID: <410-22004331017427760@earthlink.net> Tom You are at Front Range right? While I haven't tested the aileron control forces on many Velocities, I could come out and tell you how yours compares with mine. At this point, I would probably drive out because I don't want to fly into Front Range now because I don't have my transponder certified yet. Don Royer > [Original Message] > From: Tom Martino > To: > Date: 3/9/04 12:36:06 PM > Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > > Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! > > I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. > > So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 17:35:59 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:35:59 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE In-Reply-To: <000201c406c4$36fe5210$6400a8c0@BigAl> References: <000201c406c4$36fe5210$6400a8c0@BigAl> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040310103130.035c58b0@mail.tnstaafl.net> Mine move very freely, I have the factory cables. When I bought the plane they were fairly stiff, after re-rigging with Brendan they were smooth and easy to move. Both of the ends(behind the seat) and in the engine compartment were not aligned well. Scott At 10:22 AM 3/10/2004, you wrote: >ubject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > >Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and >airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not >believe the force it took to move them! > >My system moved very freely with the original cables. When I changed over >to the current heavier-duty high-temp cables, it took about 1 - 1 1/4 lbs >of side force on the stick to make them move; pretty much all drag in the >cables. I was concerned, but Scott B assured me that this was fine, and >that they would loosen up. I think they move a bit more freely now after >being in there a few months and played with now and then (and I haven't >flown yet). > >Al > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 17:46:30 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jack Sheehan) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:46:30 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited In-Reply-To: <404D2F52.000054.03972@MEDSKER1> References: <404D2F52.000054.03972@MEDSKER1> Message-ID: Just for information Pam Lineberry with AUA ( i think). called me a few weeks ago concerning the fact that she had quoted insurance for me about 18 months ago and she was interested in giving me a new quote based on the fact that they had a new underwriter. I have not heard what the quote is yet. The previous quote was almost double my current premium. Jack From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 18:01:03 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tom Martino) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:01:03 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Message-ID: Hey Don, I am based at Front Range ... but I took the plane home for wiring, panel, etc. I live in Franktown! By the way ... I am convinced the problem is in the cables. Although they move great (without being hooked to anything) ... as soon as they bend and get hooked up ... it is very stiff. -----Original Message----- From: Donald Royer [mailto:djroyer@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:42 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Tom You are at Front Range right? While I haven't tested the aileron control forces on many Velocities, I could come out and tell you how yours compares with mine. At this point, I would probably drive out because I don't want to fly into Front Range now because I don't have my transponder certified yet. Don Royer > [Original Message] > From: Tom Martino > To: > Date: 3/9/04 12:36:06 PM > Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > > Am I the only one experiencing this? When I installed my wings and airlerons, along with the associated control cables ... I could not believe the force it took to move them! > > I double-checked all the rigging and counter balance and am convinced everything was done correctly. I even went so far as having new high-tech cables built. The results were the same. > > So my question to fellow builders/flyers ... is it just a Velocity characteristic? Are the ailerons "stiff". Is it unrealistic to expect them to move like a regular plane? > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 21:05:36 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:05:36 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Message-ID: <410-22004331021536430@earthlink.net> Tom Yes, I think that Franktown would be a bit far to drive. I have had some experience with stiff aileron cables. I have the 173 wings and my kit was mistakenly shipped with cables for the standard wings. The cables for the standard wings are a couple of inches shorter than those for the 173 wings .I got the cables that came with kit installed and they looked pretty good., but they were very stiff. After some confusion and miscommunication with the factory. We figured out what the problem was, and I replaced the cables with the correct length. I was then able to rig the cables with very little friction. It then became clear what the problem with the short cables was. With the short cables I had to start the bend in the aft direction too close to the forward end of the cable. My experience was that about the last foot of the cable, and the cable end itself, should be as straight as possible. Is it possible that you might have the wrong length cables? Don > [Original Message] > From: Tom Martino > To: > Date: 3/10/04 11:02:05 AM > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > > Hey Don, > > I am based at Front Range ... but I took the plane home for wiring, panel, etc. > > I live in Franktown! > > By the way ... I am convinced the problem is in the cables. Although they move great (without being hooked to anything) ... as soon as they bend and get hooked up ... it is very stiff From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 10 21:10:16 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tom Martino) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:10:16 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 11 00:16:33 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:16:33 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE Message-ID: <410-2200434110163310@earthlink.net> I have the same fuselage and wing combination that you have. The length of the cables that I have now are 4' 9" and the cables for the standard wings were 4' 6". > [Original Message] > From: Tom Martino > To: > Date: 3/10/04 2:20:04 PM > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > > It is very possible that the cables are too short. I have the long wings and standard fuselage. I call it the Long Wing Elite. > > Can you give me the length of your cables as they are now? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Donald Royer [mailto:djroyer@earthlink.net] > Sent: Wed 3/10/2004 2:05 PM > To: reflector@tvbf.org > Cc: > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > > > > Tom > Yes, I think that Franktown would be a bit far to drive. > > I have had some experience with stiff aileron cables. I have the 173 wings > and my kit was mistakenly shipped with cables for the standard wings. The > cables for the standard wings are a couple of inches shorter than those for > the 173 wings .I got the cables that came with kit installed and they > looked pretty good., but they were very stiff. After some confusion and > miscommunication with the factory. We figured out what the problem was, and > I replaced the cables with the correct length. I was then able to rig the > cables with very little friction. It then became clear what the problem > with the short cables was. With the short cables I had to start the bend in > the aft direction too close to the forward end of the cable. My experience > was that about the last foot of the cable, and the cable end itself, should > be as straight as possible. > > Is it possible that you might have the wrong length cables? > > Don > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Tom Martino > > To: > > Date: 3/10/04 11:02:05 AM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:AILERON CONTROL FORCE > > > > Hey Don, > > > > I am based at Front Range ... but I took the plane home for wiring, > panel, etc. > > > > I live in Franktown! > > > > By the way ... I am convinced the problem is in the cables. Although > they move great (without being hooked to anything) ... as soon as they bend > and get hooked up ... it is very stiff > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 11 01:22:16 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:22:16 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited References: <404D2F52.000054.03972@MEDSKER1> Message-ID: <001a01c40707$4a728080$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Good luck Jack. Pam is not very reliable. I have called her 3-4 times for quotes with no response - this was last year when I first started flying my V. Then she calls me a couple of weeks ago and asks if I still need insurance. I said I did - she said she would call back with a quote. Guess what, still no call. Ronnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Sheehan" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:46 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited | Just for information Pam Lineberry with AUA ( i think). called me a | few weeks ago concerning the fact that she had quoted insurance for | me about 18 months ago and she was interested in giving me a new | quote based on the fact that they had a new underwriter. I have not | heard what the quote is yet. The previous quote was almost double my | current premium. | Jack | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 11 01:32:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:32:28 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited Message-ID: <24.50ea75ea.2d811bac@aol.com> --part1_24.50ea75ea.2d811bac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been carrying insurance with Pam for two years. As a low time Velocity pilot, I felt lucky to get coverage of any sort. The bitter pill for me was the 10% dedcutable on hull coverage. I have recently renewed with Falcon. The premium is about $100 less, the hull deductable is $100 and the coverage includes all ground operations as opposed to coverage only when not operating. BTW, I am a VFR pilot, have about 360 hours total, 219 in a Velocity. Mine is an XL FG. And some of you will recall that I had an accident last fall at Copperstate. So right now, Falcon is my friend. Bob Wood --part1_24.50ea75ea.2d811bac_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have been carrying insurance with= Pam for two years. As a low time Velocity pilot, I felt lucky to get covera= ge of any sort. The bitter pill for me was the 10% dedcutable on hull covera= ge.

I have recently renewed with Falcon. The premium is about $100 less, the hul= l deductable is $100 and the coverage includes all ground operations as oppo= sed to coverage only when not operating.

BTW, I am a VFR pilot, have about 360 hours total, 219 in a Velocity. Mine i= s an XL FG. And some of you will recall that I had an accident last fall at=20= Copperstate. So right now, Falcon is my friend.

Bob Wood --part1_24.50ea75ea.2d811bac_boundary-- From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 11 12:31:48 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:31:48 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited Message-ID: <1e8.1b068a35.2d81b634@aol.com> --part1_1e8.1b068a35.2d81b634_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wayne, Interesting. My policy says personal and business, but not for hire. Bob Wood From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 13 14:52:17 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:52:17 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited In-Reply-To: <24.50ea75ea.2d811bac@aol.com> References: <24.50ea75ea.2d811bac@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040313075201.03614870@mail.tnstaafl.net> Who'd you talk to at Falcon? Scott At 06:32 PM 3/10/2004, you wrote: >I have been carrying insurance with Pam for two years. As a low time >Velocity pilot, I felt lucky to get coverage of any sort. The bitter pill >for me was the 10% dedcutable on hull coverage. > >I have recently renewed with Falcon. The premium is about $100 less, the >hull deductable is $100 and the coverage includes all ground operations as >opposed to coverage only when not operating. > >BTW, I am a VFR pilot, have about 360 hours total, 219 in a Velocity. Mine >is an XL FG. And some of you will recall that I had an accident last fall >at Copperstate. So right now, Falcon is my friend. > >Bob Wood "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 13 17:58:38 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:58:38 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited Message-ID: <129.3c7e6404.2d84a5ce@aol.com> --part1_129.3c7e6404.2d84a5ce_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Mackey at bmackey@falconinsurance.com --part1_129.3c7e6404.2d84a5ce_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob Mackey at bmackey@falconinsuran= ce.com  --part1_129.3c7e6404.2d84a5ce_boundary-- From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 15 01:50:00 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:50:00 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:N503PV Flies!!! Message-ID: <007401c40a2f$d44be1e0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C40A05.EB21ED80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Phil Vaughn of Greensboro flew his XL FG for the first time today. I = flew chase, made sure nothing was falling off or leaking, and took = pictures. The this flight lasted about 45 minutes, included two landings, slow = flight, climbs and descents - and just flew great!!!! Phil lurks on the Reflector - but doesn't contribute often. But he is one proud poppa!!!! Ronnie Brown From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 15 05:44:25 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jim Sower) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:44:25 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... Message-ID: <405542B9.7725A1CD@frontiernet.net> I've got a problem for some of you Lyc doctors .... I've been hearing off and on about checking valve guides on Lycs for too much or too little clearance - either ready to seize or burning oil. I'm doing my annual now and thought I'd check the guides on my angle valve IO-360. Went to the local IA and he said that if he checks them at all, it's pull the jug, remove the valve and mic it. Seemed a little much since I thought what I'd been hearing involved pulling the spring, wiggling the stem and estimating the severity of the lash problem. Is the "quick and dirty" check, I've described common practice? If so, how exactly, does one perform the inspection? If not, how common is pulling the jugs, field stripping them and mic-ing the guides? Do I need to bother at all with 500 hrs on the engine and two jugs with 100 and 200 hrs on them? Need some straight answers .... Jim S. From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 15 13:50:39 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:50:39 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... References: <405542B9.7725A1CD@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <000b01c40a94$80842d00$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Jim, See http://www.prime-mover.org/Aviation/Manuf_Page/sb388b-1.html for a copy of this mandatory service bulletin issued by Lycoming. You're supposed to inspect the valve guides every 400 hours. Lycoming says they don't have a problem with these valve guides - yet, they issued a new and improved valve guide a couple of years ago for parallel valve engines. Nothing yet for angle valve engines. There is a pretty good set of write ups at http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Marvel/index.html Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sower" To: "Cozy Forum" ; "Velocity Forum" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:44 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... | I've got a problem for some of you Lyc doctors .... | | I've been hearing off and on about checking valve guides on Lycs | for too much or too little clearance - either ready to seize or | burning oil. I'm doing my annual now and thought I'd check the | guides on my angle valve IO-360. Went to the local IA and he | said that if he checks them at all, it's pull the jug, remove | the valve and mic it. Seemed a little much since I thought what | I'd been hearing involved pulling the spring, wiggling the stem | and estimating the severity of the lash problem. | | Is the "quick and dirty" check, I've described common practice? | If so, how exactly, does one perform the inspection? If not, | how common is pulling the jugs, field stripping them and mic-ing | the guides? Do I need to bother at all with 500 hrs on the | engine and two jugs with 100 and 200 hrs on them? | | Need some straight answers .... Jim S. | | | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 15 14:51:13 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 07:51:13 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... In-Reply-To: <405542B9.7725A1CD@frontiernet.net> References: <405542B9.7725A1CD@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040315074909.03698d38@mail.tnstaafl.net> I thought you could do that by dropping the valve into the cylinder and then pulling the stem out through the spark plug hole. Cleaning and measuring, then re-install valve using rope to push it back up through the guide? Scott At 10:44 PM 3/14/2004, you wrote: >I've got a problem for some of you Lyc doctors .... > >I've been hearing off and on about checking valve guides on Lycs >for too much or too little clearance - either ready to seize or >burning oil. I'm doing my annual now and thought I'd check the >guides on my angle valve IO-360. Went to the local IA and he >said that if he checks them at all, it's pull the jug, remove >the valve and mic it. Seemed a little much since I thought what >I'd been hearing involved pulling the spring, wiggling the stem >and estimating the severity of the lash problem. > >Is the "quick and dirty" check, I've described common practice? >If so, how exactly, does one perform the inspection? If not, >how common is pulling the jugs, field stripping them and mic-ing >the guides? Do I need to bother at all with 500 hrs on the >engine and two jugs with 100 and 200 hrs on them? > >Need some straight answers .... Jim S. > > >_______________________________________________ >To change your email address, visit >http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > >Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery >user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose >Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail >Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 15 16:58:14 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Airmech) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:58:14 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... References: <405542B9.7725A1CD@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <037201c40aae$b5090130$3201a8c0@airmech1pzvzmf> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_036F_01C40A6B.A6B673D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You don't need to remove the cylinder or try to stick the valve end out = the plug hole. Lycoming service instruction SI 1424 tells how to check = for sticking and how to remove and install the valves. Once you remove = the spring(s) you can tell if it sticks by just moving the valve in and = out with your fingers. It's very simple and just takes some cotton rope = and a valve spring compresor. bg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim Sower=20 To: Cozy Forum ; Velocity Forum=20 Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 9:44 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... I've got a problem for some of you Lyc doctors .... I've been hearing off and on about checking valve guides on Lycs for too much or too little clearance - either ready to seize or burning oil. I'm doing my annual now and thought I'd check the guides on my angle valve IO-360. Went to the local IA and he said that if he checks them at all, it's pull the jug, remove the valve and mic it. Seemed a little much since I thought what I'd been hearing involved pulling the spring, wiggling the stem and estimating the severity of the lash problem. Is the "quick and dirty" check, I've described common practice? If so, how exactly, does one perform the inspection? If not, how common is pulling the jugs, field stripping them and mic-ing the guides? Do I need to bother at all with 500 hrs on the engine and two jugs with 100 and 200 hrs on them? Need some straight answers .... Jim S. _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit = http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: = http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 15 17:01:05 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Nolan Frederick) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:01:05 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... References: <405542B9.7725A1CD@frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <000e01c40aaf$1b25e780$08c262d8@nolan> Dear Jim, Here's a little bit about valve guides you may want to consider: I've worked on lots of automobile engines and motorcycle engines, not on Lycosaurs. But they aren't really all that different from air-cooled MC engines. It is common practice nowadays to put these rubber boots on the valve stems of automobile engines especially. I suspect this practice is followed to minimize the ingress of oil into the cylinders and thereby delays the smoking that we used to see quite a lot of back in the old days. Now, I can see putting those things on the intakes but NOT on the exhaust valve stems. The exhaust stems are always under positive pressure from the escaping gasses so we don't see oil being sucked into the cylinders via the exhaust stem/guide clearance. In fact, If those booties aren't on the exhaust stems and there is some unburnt oil in the exhaust gas it could serve to lubricate the exhaust stems. I use a little MM in my gas occasionally just to increase the likelihood of getting some on my exhaust valve stems. I doesn't hurt. I learnt engine work from an old alcoholic race-car engine builder and he told me that if one pulls a piston from a cylinder and then puts it back it will pump oil like crazy. The rings won't seat unless the cylinder glaze is broken/removed and new rings are installed. So, if it were me, I certainly wouldn't be pulling my Lycosaur cylinders to check my valve stem clearance. Best wishes and some good luck too. nolan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sower" To: "Cozy Forum" ; "Velocity Forum" Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... > I've got a problem for some of you Lyc doctors .... > > I've been hearing off and on about checking valve guides on Lycs > for too much or too little clearance - either ready to seize or > burning oil. I'm doing my annual now and thought I'd check the > guides on my angle valve IO-360. Went to the local IA and he > said that if he checks them at all, it's pull the jug, remove > the valve and mic it. Seemed a little much since I thought what > I'd been hearing involved pulling the spring, wiggling the stem > and estimating the severity of the lash problem. > > Is the "quick and dirty" check, I've described common practice? > If so, how exactly, does one perform the inspection? If not, > how common is pulling the jugs, field stripping them and mic-ing > the guides? Do I need to bother at all with 500 hrs on the > engine and two jugs with 100 and 200 hrs on them? > > Need some straight answers .... Jim S. > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 16 02:51:08 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:51:08 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... Message-ID: -------------------------------1079405468 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim Lycoming service instruction No.1425A is all about the subject of valve sticking. If you give me your Fax. I will send you a copy Mack Murphree I,A. -------------------------------1079405468 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jim
  Lycoming service instruction No.1425A is all about the subject o= f valve sticking. If you give me your Fax. I will send you a copy
Mack Murphree I,A.
-------------------------------1079405468-- From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 16 03:19:33 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:19:33 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... References: Message-ID: <010001c40b05$81f0cb00$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01C40ADB.981EFDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mack, Lycoming SI 1425A is available at: http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/maintenancePublicati= ons/serviceInstructions/SI1425a.pdf Ronnie ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MMurp16900@aol.com=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Checking valve guides ... Hi Jim Lycoming service instruction No.1425A is all about the subject of = valve sticking. If you give me your Fax. I will send you a copy Mack Murphree I,A. From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 17:44:48 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dean May) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:44:48 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield Message-ID: <000901c40c47$91157390$6500a8c0@Office> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C40C15.402A7F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are people doing with the glare shield. I'm at the point where I = need to do something with it, but haven't yet decided. Are you painting = it or upolstering it? I am also thinking of covering it with a felt = material. Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks Dean May STGRG From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 18:09:07 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Velocity_AZ) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:09:07 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield In-Reply-To: <000901c40c47$91157390$6500a8c0@Office> Message-ID: Dean, Don’t use felt. When it gets dusty, it’ll be hell to clean. I suggest ultra-leather (synthetic leather). Don’t use vinyl. I was told that it emits a gas that will damage (or leave a film on, can’t remember) the windshield. I just upholstered mine. Didn’t even bother to secure it. Once upholstered, it fit snugly. I’ve also heard that you should not attach it to the instrument panel – when passengers try to pull their seat forward, they may grab the glare shield to pull themselves forward. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Dean May Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:45 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield What are people doing with the glare shield. I'm at the point where I need to do something with it, but haven't yet decided. Are you painting it or upolstering it? I am also thinking of covering it with a felt material. Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks Dean May STGRG From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 18:12:41 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dave Black) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:12:41 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Ping!! Message-ID: <4058951A.FC3E559F@comcast.net> Test From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 18:48:37 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:48:37 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield References: <000901c40c47$91157390$6500a8c0@Office> Message-ID: <002801c40c50$752fcb40$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C40C26.8C05D6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I painted mine with a black "hammered" look spray from Lowe's (similar = to the "crinkle finish" you might be more familiar with). Turned out nice, low glare and it is cleanable with a damp cloth. Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean May=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield What are people doing with the glare shield. I'm at the point where I = need to do something with it, but haven't yet decided. Are you painting = it or upolstering it? I am also thinking of covering it with a felt = material. Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks Dean May STGRG From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 18:57:50 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:57:50 -0500 Subject: Fw: REFLECTOR:More glare shield Message-ID: <003401c40c51$befdb9c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C40C27.D5CA9DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I painted mine with a black "hammered" look spray from Lowe's (similar = to the "crinkle finish" you might be more familiar with). Turned out nice, low glare and it is cleanable with a damp cloth. I also used some 3/8' divinycel foam to double up the glare shield - on = the bottom side of the glare shield. I cut a groove in this bottom = layer for the panel to fit into. This stiffened the panel nicely. = There are three screws at the top edge of the panel that goes into = angles on the underside of the glareshield to keep the glare shield = attached. All nice and stiff and up to someone pulling on it. Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean May=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield What are people doing with the glare shield. I'm at the point where I = need to do something with it, but haven't yet decided. Are you painting = it or upolstering it? I am also thinking of covering it with a felt = material. Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks Dean May STGRG From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 21:00:00 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:00:00 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield Message-ID: <15d.30576208.2d8a1650@aol.com> -------------------------------1079557200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dean, I covered my glareshield with 1/4" foam, and then with some trunk liner material. It is blackish grey with a mottled mix just like the panel. It is also washable and reasonable priced. I can provide a pic if you like. Kurt Winker 173 FGE (with the 4'6" aileron cables!!:( Still testing to see if I need the longer cables. From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 21:07:43 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jack Sheehan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:07:43 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Re: Landing Gear adjustment In-Reply-To: <003401c40c51$befdb9c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> References: <003401c40c51$befdb9c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: --============_-1132564828==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Just thought I would relate a problem I was having on my XL-RG. My normal decent procedure if the air is relatively smooth is to decent at about 200 kts indicated. at 500 fpm. After about 170 hours of flying time on the aircraft I began a routine decent and had a strange vibration that would start and stop by lowering the nose or pulling up slightly. I was able to determine that the vibration seemed to be from the gear doors. After some advice from Scott Swing I took a hard look at the gear rigging. Since the stop on the actuator controls the up position and the gear position lights indicated that the gear was up and the unsafe light out it all looked good. Turns out that in the down position there was just a little slack in the cable. They evidently stretch a little. I tightened the cable up ( only a few turns on the cable turnbuckle and the vibration was fixed. The message " Check cable tension every so often " they do stretch. Oh yeah In the process I built a pair of airplane jacks out of 4x4, some plywood legs and automotive bottle jacks. They work great and I spent about $30. Jack N55XL --============_-1132564828==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Re: Landing Gear adjustment

Just thought I would relate a problem I was having on my XL-RG. My normal decent procedure if the air is relatively smooth is to decent  at about 200 kts indicated. at 500 fpm.  After about 170 hours of flying time on the aircraft I began a routine decent and had a strange vibration that would start and stop by lowering the nose or pulling up slightly. I was able to determine that the vibration seemed to be from the gear doors. After some advice from Scott Swing I took a hard look at the gear rigging. Since the stop on the actuator controls the up position and the gear position lights indicated that the gear was up and the unsafe light out it all looked good.
Turns out that in the down position there was just a little slack in the cable. They evidently stretch a little. I tightened the cable up ( only a few turns on the cable turnbuckle and the vibration was fixed. The message " Check cable tension every so often " they do stretch. Oh yeah In the process I built a pair of airplane jacks out of 4x4, some plywood legs and automotive bottle jacks. They work great and I spent about $30.

Jack
N55XL
--============_-1132564828==_ma============-- From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 21:55:52 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Greg Poole) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:55:52 +1100 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... Message-ID: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C40CC6.D0D69C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the heads up on stretched cables being the cause of fuse = vibrations in flight. Now who (please) was the builder that modified the hinges of their gear = doors to avoid having to notch the fuselage and provided a better = (overlap?) seal between the doors when closed? I remember seeing this on = a particular builder's web site and am keen to follow it up. Have already cut out and finished my nosegear door hinge brackets (darn = it!) but am willing to do it again or modify same if there is sufficient = advantage on my STd RG E. Thanks, Greg. Greg Poole Principal POOLED RESOURCES PTY LTD 3 Cheltenham Close Castle Hill NSW 2154 =20 gregpoole@pacific.net.au tel:=20 fax:=20 mobile: (612) 9899 2737 (612) 9899 2726 0414 273199 =20 Powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this?=20 From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 22:46:38 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Schweitzer, Bill) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:46:38 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C40C71.B53AD43F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, that was the fellow/company that was building the jet Velocity. = Which led to another completely different discussion. =20 Bill Schweitzer Ramona, Ca Std RGE 90% done, 50% to go -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On = Behalf Of Greg Poole Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:56 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... Thanks for the heads up on stretched cables being the cause of fuse = vibrations in flight. =20 Now who (please) was the builder that modified the hinges of their gear = doors to avoid having to notch the fuselage and provided a better = (overlap?) seal between the doors when closed? I remember seeing this on = a particular builder's web site and am keen to follow it up. =20 Have already cut out and finished my nosegear door hinge brackets (darn = it!) but am willing to do it again or modify same if there is sufficient = advantage on my STd RG E. =20 Thanks, =20 Greg. Greg Poole Principal POOLED RESOURCES PTY LTD 3 Cheltenham Close Castle Hill NSW 2154 =09 gregpoole@pacific.net.au =09 tel:=20 fax:=20 mobile: (612) 9899 2737 (612) 9899 2726 0414 273199 =09 =09 Powered by Plaxo = Want a signature like this?=09 From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 02:56:02 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Andreas Christou) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:56:02 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Re: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... In-Reply-To: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040317215257.037d28a0@apollo.lunarpages.com> At 04:55 PM 3/17/04, you wrote: >Now who (please) was the builder that modified the hinges of their gear >doors to avoid having to notch the fuselage and provided a better >(overlap?) seal between the doors when closed? I remember seeing this on a >particular builder's web site and am keen to follow it up. Greg, Look at http://x-jets.com/gear_doors.html Andreas P. Christou Cell:(203) 470 7334 andreas@x-jets.com http://x-jets.com/ From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 08:01:39 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (CBarber) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:01:39 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Project website update In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.0.20040317215257.037d28a0@apollo.lunarpages.com> Message-ID: Ok, since I have received 3 emails this week mentioning I have not added anything new to my website and since I have no original thought at all and am completely directed by the liberal media and peer pressure ;-), .....I added some new pics tonight of me cutting up my pretty wings for pesky control surfaces. The pix are ugly (man this was a messy process) and I still have not seen fit to add much narrative. All the best, Chris www.LoneStarVelocity.com Look in the builders log...at the bottom Christopher Barber Barber & Pi, LLP Attorneys and Counselors at Law 11930 S Sam Houston Pkwy E Suite 103 Houston, Texas 77089-4755 281-464-LAWS (5297) "Serving the needs of Senior Texans" CBarber@TexasAttorney.net www.TexasAttorney.net From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 17:02:41 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Laurence Coen) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:02:41 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Main gear warning Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C40CD8.88AFAC20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0039_01C40CD8.88AFAC20" ------=_NextPart_001_0039_01C40CD8.88AFAC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BlankA gear up switch that is actuated by the main gear cylinder = position doesn't tell you where the gear are. It is possible to have a = broken cable and the red light out. I mounted two micro switches on the = gear bulkhead (one for each gear leg) and wired them in parallel. This = way both gear must be fully up for the light to go out. The gear down = switch is mounted on the over center bar and is actuated by the over = center locking arm. Larry Coen Std RG/E-Franklin N136LC From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 17:36:13 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:36:13 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Re: Hi Message-ID: From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 18:39:04 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:39:04 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield Message-ID: <0A907202.098DC0C4.0086622B@aol.com> Great chance to show off your planes, see others and make friends. EAA Chapter 48 at Moraine Airpark (south end of Dayton Ohio) is holding its 41st annual Sunday Funday Flyin in 2 May (Sunday) from 0800-1300. Pancake breakfast with aircraft judging. Last year we had over 240 aircraft show up and almost 100 were homebuilts, antiques or classics. Hope to see some fellow canardians Bill Stockman, Velocity Elite N12WS From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 20:27:02 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dave Black) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:27:02 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> Message-ID: <405A0616.423D5B3D@comcast.net> Greg, > Now who (please) was the builder that modified the hinges of > their gear doors to avoid having to notch the fuselage and > provided a better (overlap?) seal between the doors when > closed? Me? For best geometry, the nose gear Swing Arms should PIVOT as close to the fuselage as possible. I modified my doors to overlap when closed, in order to provide a better seal. > Have already cut out and finished my nosegear door hinge > brackets (darn it!) but am willing to do it again or modify > same if there is sufficient advantage on my STd RG E. If it's working, leave it! I modified virtually everything on the plane at least once, and look where I am now. While my mods all contributed to a better airplane, they also greatly extended my build time. In essence, I've built two Velocities and thrown away one. It would be better to build two airplanes: The first one according to plans and the second with all the mods. Then when you finish the second, you can sell the first. Dave Black From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 21:21:57 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (John & Mary Wright) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:21:57 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Project website update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405A12F5.9030504@cox.net> Chris, Loved your website !!!! No narrative required ! Really nice ! Always enjoy your sense of humor, too ! :-) Thanks for "sharing". The Wrights CBarber wrote: >Ok, since I have received 3 emails this week mentioning I have not added >anything new to my website and since I have no original thought at all and >am completely directed by the liberal media and peer pressure ;-), .....I >added some new pics tonight of me cutting up my pretty wings for pesky >control surfaces. The pix are ugly (man this was a messy process) and I >still have not seen fit to add much narrative. > >All the best, > >Chris >www.LoneStarVelocity.com >Look in the builders log...at the bottom > > > >Christopher Barber > >Barber & Pi, LLP >Attorneys and Counselors at Law >11930 S Sam Houston Pkwy E >Suite 103 >Houston, Texas 77089-4755 >281-464-LAWS (5297) > >"Serving the needs of Senior Texans" > >CBarber@TexasAttorney.net >www.TexasAttorney.net > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > >Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery >user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose >Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail >Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 21:45:21 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Alex Balic) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:45:21 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_e+DsA+q0GH4JDt5IwRUTAA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, the sun is shining, and the epoxy is flowing again here in Dallas, so I am inviting all area builders to come and see what is going on at hanger 44 in Denton- all are welcome- the venerable turbocharged Subaru SVX is mounted, wiring is starting, so anyone who wants to come an have a look-se let me know- I will be going to SNF to look for some goodies, but sometime soon after that would be good- it has been a while since our last meeting......... Alex --Boundary_(ID_e+DsA+q0GH4JDt5IwRUTAA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Well, the sun is shining, and the epoxy is flowing again here in Dallas, so I am inviting all  area builders to come and see what is going on at hanger 44 in Denton- all are welcome-   the venerable  turbocharged Subaru SVX  is mounted, wiring is starting, so anyone who wants to come an have a look-se let me know- I will be going to SNF to look for some goodies, but sometime soon after that would be good- it has been a while since our last meeting.........
 
Alex
--Boundary_(ID_e+DsA+q0GH4JDt5IwRUTAA)-- From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 22:49:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Bob Kuc) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:49:26 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders References: Message-ID: <07a601c40d3b$43e15950$0301a8c0@win2k> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07A3_01C40D11.5AC82DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alex, Can you tell me more about the turbo'ed svx. Maybe we can meet = somewhere during sun-n-fun and discuss this? bob ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alex Balic=20 To: reflector@awpi.com=20 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:45 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders Well, the sun is shining, and the epoxy is flowing again here in = Dallas, so I am inviting all area builders to come and see what is = going on at hanger 44 in Denton- all are welcome- the venerable = turbocharged Subaru SVX is mounted, wiring is starting, so anyone who = wants to come an have a look-se let me know- I will be going to SNF to = look for some goodies, but sometime soon after that would be good- it = has been a while since our last meeting......... Alex From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 23:07:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Alex Balic) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:07:28 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders In-Reply-To: <07a601c40d3b$43e15950$0301a8c0@win2k> Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_vau1PypK7JB0aDvbZSHezA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Bob- I would like to say that you can just add a turbo and go, but there are a few things that need to be changed- namely the pistons- need to swap for turbo Legacy units- stock compression on the SVX is too high for a pressurized intake, but not too bad at $95 each and new rings to go with them of course. Also ported the heads for good measure, re-lapped the valves, and had a minor re-grind to the exhaust cams to run better at the higher RPMs The other thing that I had to do was change the injectors to larger ones- from a 300zx- other than that- I had a lot of help from Crossflow Aero in Canada, including a pre-programmed ECU which also required a few minor changes - different sensors- but otherwise, not too difficult- changing pistons was the biggie- not too hard, but you need some dexterity for sure.... Crossflow also has a mount that fits perfectly to the XL- kind of pricey, but very well made... I will let you know my schedule for Sun-N-Fun, but I should be at the dinner..... Alex -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Bob Kuc Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:49 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders Alex, Can you tell me more about the turbo'ed svx. Maybe we can meet somewhere during sun-n-fun and discuss this? bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Balic To: reflector@awpi.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:45 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders Well, the sun is shining, and the epoxy is flowing again here in Dallas, so I am inviting all area builders to come and see what is going on at hanger 44 in Denton- all are welcome- the venerable turbocharged Subaru SVX is mounted, wiring is starting, so anyone who wants to come an have a look-se let me know- I will be going to SNF to look for some goodies, but sometime soon after that would be good- it has been a while since our last meeting......... Alex From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 18 23:50:00 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Christopher Barber) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:50:00 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_05A8_01C40D11.6F587610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wish I would have know earlier. My SWMBO, Jana just left this afternoon for a big dog show in Ft Worth (her home town). She asked if I wanted to go, but I would rather fly a spamcan than sit at another dog show (they were fun the first 50 times ). However, I could have visited your project again (btw, thanks for the first visit). Oh, well, I guess I will get a lot more airplane building done this way...I have elevators to connect and a center spar to install. Lets hear it for auto conversions!!! (even if mine is a Rotary) ;-) All the best, Chris Christopher Barber Attorney & Counselor at Law Barber & Pi, LLP Houston, Texas Serving the Needs of Senior Texans 281-464-LAWS (5297) www.TexasAttorney.net CBarber@TexasAttorney.net -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of Alex Balic Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:45 PM To: reflector@awpi.com Subject: REFLECTOR:Dallas Area Builders Well, the sun is shining, and the epoxy is flowing again here in Dallas, so I am inviting all area builders to come and see what is going on at hanger 44 in Denton- all are welcome- the venerable turbocharged Subaru SVX is mounted, wiring is starting, so anyone who wants to come an have a look-se let me know- I will be going to SNF to look for some goodies, but sometime soon after that would be good- it has been a while since our last meeting......... Alex From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 01:27:13 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Nolan Frederick) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:27:13 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:More glare shield References: <003401c40c51$befdb9c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <000a01c40d51$4efef3e0$edc262d8@nolan> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C40D16.A2245C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ronnie, Did you get your 3/8" Divinycell foam from ACS? =20 nolan. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronnie Brown=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:57 AM Subject: Fw: REFLECTOR:More glare shield I painted mine with a black "hammered" look spray from Lowe's (similar = to the "crinkle finish" you might be more familiar with). Turned out nice, low glare and it is cleanable with a damp cloth. I also used some 3/8' divinycel foam to double up the glare shield - = on the bottom side of the glare shield. I cut a groove in this bottom = layer for the panel to fit into. This stiffened the panel nicely. = There are three screws at the top edge of the panel that goes into = angles on the underside of the glareshield to keep the glare shield = attached. All nice and stiff and up to someone pulling on it. Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean May=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield What are people doing with the glare shield. I'm at the point where = I need to do something with it, but haven't yet decided. Are you = painting it or upolstering it? I am also thinking of covering it with a = felt material. Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks Dean May STGRG From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 03:59:13 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:59:13 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:More glare shield References: <003401c40c51$befdb9c0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> <000a01c40d51$4efef3e0$edc262d8@nolan> Message-ID: <003f01c40d66$8ac666a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C40D3C.A19C7240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was some of the foam that came with the Velocity kit. I call it = divinycell but it may not be. Its the foam that came with the kit. I = glued it to the bottom of the glare shield with micro and covered it = with one layer of fine bid. Ronnie ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Nolan Frederick=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:27 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:More glare shield Ronnie, Did you get your 3/8" Divinycell foam from ACS? =20 nolan. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ronnie Brown=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:57 AM Subject: Fw: REFLECTOR:More glare shield I painted mine with a black "hammered" look spray from Lowe's = (similar to the "crinkle finish" you might be more familiar with). Turned out nice, low glare and it is cleanable with a damp cloth. I also used some 3/8' divinycel foam to double up the glare shield - = on the bottom side of the glare shield. I cut a groove in this bottom = layer for the panel to fit into. This stiffened the panel nicely. = There are three screws at the top edge of the panel that goes into = angles on the underside of the glareshield to keep the glare shield = attached. All nice and stiff and up to someone pulling on it. Ronnie Brown ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean May=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: REFLECTOR:glare shield What are people doing with the glare shield. I'm at the point = where I need to do something with it, but haven't yet decided. Are you = painting it or upolstering it? I am also thinking of covering it with a = felt material. Any suggestions or pictures? Thanks Dean May STGRG From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 04:01:43 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:01:43 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> <405A0616.423D5B3D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <004901c40d66$e4795a40$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Dave, just when are you going to fly that bird?????? We await patiently while you perfect your bird - but some day its gotta fly!!!! The building process is even more rewarding when you fly and enjoy all of your enhancements that you created. Ronnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Black" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:27 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... | Greg, | | > Now who (please) was the builder that modified the hinges of | > their gear doors to avoid having to notch the fuselage and | > provided a better (overlap?) seal between the doors when | > closed? | | Me? | | For best geometry, the nose gear Swing Arms should PIVOT as close to the | fuselage as possible. I modified my doors to overlap when closed, in order to | provide a better seal. | | > Have already cut out and finished my nosegear door hinge | > brackets (darn it!) but am willing to do it again or modify | > same if there is sufficient advantage on my STd RG E. | | If it's working, leave it! I modified virtually everything on the plane at | least once, and look where I am now. | | While my mods all contributed to a better airplane, they also greatly extended | my build time. In essence, I've built two Velocities and thrown away one. It | would be better to build two airplanes: The first one according to plans and | the second with all the mods. Then when you finish the second, you can sell | the first. | | Dave Black | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 13:46:49 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dan Fast) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:46:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Transporting your Velocity or parts, supplies, or anything else Engines props etc Message-ID: <20040319134649.72976.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Guys and Gals, I have two trips coming up, one to the Pacific NW next week, and a couple of weeks later to northern Ca. I'm dead heading out which is extremely unusual, so plenty of space with dead head shipping pricing, also if you are moving or selling or buying an aircraft or kit, I may be able to save you a lot of money and headache. So call Natalie at Velocity and order your stuff and I will bring it..Thanks Dan "FAST AIRCRAFT DELIVERY" 772-473-6090 SERG-Franklin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 18:24:04 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:24:04 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons Message-ID: <1e2.1ba995cb.2d8c94c4@aol.com> -------------------------------1079720644 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well this is interesting. Just a few days ago, someone was mentioning that the aileron cables for the long wing were supposed to be 4' 9"... and 4' 6" for the short wing. I have the 173 Elite (long wing.. little fuselage) and the cables I have are 4' 6" long. Since I am in the process of rigging my ailerons, I measured them and checked the curvature. I don't have room for 3 more inches of control cable in my bird. The cables run right along the keel fin, make a nice curve to the side of the fuselage, and right to the brackets. Another interesting note is that my manual says the holes for the aileron cable clamp (in the engine bay) are pre-drilled. I didn't have any holes in my brackets. Right now, I have 2.7" of left up/right down aileron, but only 1.7" or right up/left down. Hopefully this can be tweaked out by adjustment, but I haven't got there yet. I waded through the archives but didn't see anything regarding aileron travel & rigging. Any pointers? Thanks, Kurt Winker 173 FGE 4.3L alum V-6 Chevy. -------------------------------1079720644 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well this is interesting.  Just a few days ago, someone was mentio= ning that the aileron cables for the long wing were supposed to be 4' 9"...=20= and 4' 6" for the short wing.
 
I have the 173 Elite (long wing.. little fuselage) and the cables I hav= e are 4' 6" long. Since I am in the process of rigging my ailerons, I measur= ed them and checked the curvature.  I don't have room for 3 more inches= of control cable in my bird.  The cables run right along the keel fin,= make a nice curve to the side of the fuselage, and right to the brackets.&n= bsp;
 
Another interesting note is that my manual says the holes for the ailer= on cable clamp (in the engine bay) are pre-drilled.  I didn't have any=20= holes in my brackets.
 
Right now, I have 2.7" of left up/right down aileron, but only 1.7" or=20= right up/left down. Hopefully this can be tweaked out by adjustment, but I h= aven't got there yet. I waded through the archives but didn't see anything r= egarding aileron travel & rigging.
 
 
Any pointers?
 
Thanks, 
 
Kurt Winker
173 FGE  4.3L alum V-6 Chevy.
-------------------------------1079720644-- From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 19:05:22 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tom Martino) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:05:22 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons Message-ID: From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 19:07:03 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dave Black) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:07:03 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> <405A0616.423D5B3D@comcast.net> <004901c40d66$e4795a40$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <405B44D8.6B9FCF08@comcast.net> Ronnie, > Dave, just when are you going to fly that bird?????? > > We await patiently while you perfect your bird - but some day its gotta > fly!!!! That is definitely the $64 question. Though I am theoretically within a month or so of flying the Velocity, projects and crises continue to jump ahead in the queue. > The building process is even more rewarding when you fly and enjoy all of > your enhancements that you created. I can only imagine. It's been 'under construction' for so long now I think of it as a project rather than as an airplane. However, I really do hope to fly it this summer. Dave Black Shortwing RG From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 21:26:20 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Royer) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:26:20 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons Message-ID: <410-220043519212620770@earthlink.net> ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I was the one that said that I needed 4'9" cables for my 173 Elite. A first glance, the longer cables looked as thought they were too long, but after I re drilled the holes in the fire wall and got them in, they worked much better than the shorter ones. However, these birds are all different and so go with whatever works. I did a lot of fiddling with rigging the ailerons. My first suggestion would be to be sure you are getting full travel at the front bell crank and that the cables are properly centered on the bell crank. Then at the aft end of the cables, be sure that the angle between the cable end and the bell crank is the same on both sides, and that the cable ends are screwed on to the cables the same distance on both sides. I know that these things seem that they wouldn't make much difference, but both of them can make a surprising difference in the aileron travel. I found that for me an angle about 110 degrees between the cable ends and the bell crank with the ailerons centered, and the cable ends screwed almost as far out as they could safely go worked best. The position of the cable ends matters because it changes the distance between the point when the cable end pivots and the bell crank. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: To: reflector@tvbf.org Sent: 3/19/04 11:24:05 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons Well this is interesting. Just a few days ago, someone was mentioning that the aileron cables for the long wing were supposed to be 4' 9"... and 4' 6" for the short wing. I have the 173 Elite (long wing.. little fuselage) and the cables I have are 4' 6" long. Since I am in the process of rigging my ailerons, I measured them and checked the curvature. I don't have room for 3 more inches of control cable in my bird. The cables run right along the keel fin, make a nice curve to the side of the fuselage, and right to the brackets. Another interesting note is that my manual says the holes for the aileron cable clamp (in the engine bay) are pre-drilled. I didn't have any holes in my brackets. Right now, I have 2.7" of left up/right down aileron, but only 1.7" or right up/left down. Hopefully this can be tweaked out by adjustment, but I haven't got there yet. I waded through the archives but didn't see anything regarding aileron travel & rigging. Any pointers? Thanks, Kurt Winker 173 FGE 4.3L alum V-6 Chevy. From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 21:45:41 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jack Sheehan) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:45:41 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons In-Reply-To: <410-220043519212620770@earthlink.net> References: <410-220043519212620770@earthlink.net> Message-ID: All of that stuff is correct. Each little thing makes a difference. One of the first thing to check is the travel stop. i.e. figure out what is stopping the travel. In this process I found that my travel limit was a function of the hole in the top of the keel with the stick in it. The left and right travel was hitting the side of the keel. I needed a larger hole. Jack N55XL From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 22:12:03 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Al Gietzen) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:12:03 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons In-Reply-To: <1e2.1ba995cb.2d8c94c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <001901c40dff$3592a100$6400a8c0@BigAl> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C40DBC.276F6100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also check the travel of each cable when it is unhooked. Stop to stop should be at least 3=94. If not, return to Velocity for a replacement. = I had one that was only about 2 =BD=94, that extra half inch makes a big difference in the aileron travel. Once you get the cables clamped at the keel so the travel is centered and goes 1 =BD each way you=92ll be = well on your way. I had to re-drill for one of the attach brackets on the keel to get the cable positioned properly, without running out of adjustment travel. =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On Behalf Of NMFlyer1@aol.com Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 10:24 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: REFLECTOR:Ailerons =20 Well this is interesting. Just a few days ago, someone was mentioning that the aileron cables for the long wing were supposed to be 4' 9"... and 4' 6" for the short wing.=20 =20 I have the 173 Elite (long wing.. little fuselage) and the cables I have are 4' 6" long. Since I am in the process of rigging my ailerons, I measured them and checked the curvature. I don't have room for 3 more inches of control cable in my bird. The cables run right along the keel fin, make a nice curve to the side of the fuselage, and right to the brackets. =20 =20 Another interesting note is that my manual says the holes for the aileron cable clamp (in the engine bay) are pre-drilled. I didn't have any holes in my brackets.=20 =20 Right now, I have 2.7" of left up/right down aileron, but only 1.7" or right up/left down. Hopefully this can be tweaked out by adjustment, but I haven't got there yet. I waded through the archives but didn't see anything regarding aileron travel & rigging.=20 =20 =20 Any pointers?=20 =20 Thanks, =20 =20 Kurt Winker 173 FGE 4.3L alum V-6 Chevy.=20 From reflector@tvbf.org Fri Mar 19 22:48:34 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:48:34 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> <405A0616.423D5B3D@comcast.net> <004901c40d66$e4795a40$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> <405B44D8.6B9FCF08@comcast.net> Message-ID: <003c01c40e04$501f40a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> GREAT!!!! I hope you do get to fly this summer!!!!!! Let me know when you're ready. I'm close enough to fly up and fly chase. Ronnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Black" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:07 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... | Ronnie, | | > Dave, just when are you going to fly that bird?????? | > | > We await patiently while you perfect your bird - but some day its gotta | > fly!!!! | | That is definitely the $64 question. Though I am theoretically within a month | or so of flying the Velocity, projects and crises continue to jump ahead in | the queue. | | > The building process is even more rewarding when you fly and enjoy all of | > your enhancements that you created. | | I can only imagine. It's been 'under construction' for so long now I think of | it as a project rather than as an airplane. However, I really do hope to fly | it this summer. | | Dave Black | Shortwing RG | _______________________________________________ | To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector | | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 20 06:50:48 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Greg Poole) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:50:48 +1100 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> <405A0616.423D5B3D@comcast.net> <004901c40d66$e4795a40$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> <405B44D8.6B9FCF08@comcast.net> <003c01c40e04$501f40a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <008a01c40e47$ad7ddbb0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> Ah the pressure is on Dave Black! Greg in Sydney. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Brown" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... > GREAT!!!! > > I hope you do get to fly this summer!!!!!! > > Let me know when you're ready. I'm close enough to fly up and fly chase. > > Ronnie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Black" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:07 PM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... > > > | Ronnie, > | > | > Dave, just when are you going to fly that bird?????? > | > > | > We await patiently while you perfect your bird - but some day its gotta > | > fly!!!! > | > | That is definitely the $64 question. Though I am theoretically within a > month > | or so of flying the Velocity, projects and crises continue to jump ahead > in > | the queue. > | > | > The building process is even more rewarding when you fly and enjoy all > of > | > your enhancements that you created. > | > | I can only imagine. It's been 'under construction' for so long now I think > of > | it as a project rather than as an airplane. However, I really do hope to > fly > | it this summer. > | > | Dave Black > | Shortwing RG > | _______________________________________________ > | To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > | > | Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 20 07:27:42 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dave Black) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 02:27:42 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... References: <00a701c40c6a$9d93eac0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> <405A0616.423D5B3D@comcast.net> <004901c40d66$e4795a40$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> <405B44D8.6B9FCF08@comcast.net> <003c01c40e04$501f40a0$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> Message-ID: <405BF270.5FF87531@comcast.net> Ronnie, > I hope you do get to fly this summer!!!!!! > > Let me know when you're ready. I'm close enough to fly up and fly chase. Neat! Looking forward to the aerial company. Dave From reflector@tvbf.org Sat Mar 20 16:47:17 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:47:17 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Re:Ailerons update Message-ID: <110.2f96b1a7.2d8dcf95@aol.com> -------------------------------1079801237 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well. with all the advice I got here and from Brendan, here's where I am. I measured the throw of the cables, and marked the center (neutral) position. I then hooked up the left aileron cable with the aileron in the " 1/8" droop " position and both rod-ends in the middle adjustment. I have the "old style" cable bracket pieces, and unhooked the cable clamp (that was installed per the old manual). I then clamped it in place with a big spring clamp. Through lots of tweakage, I now have 2-7/16" up travel, and 2-5/16" down travel. So.. it is getting closer. I'll tweak some more this morning and see how close I can get. Then I'll hook up the right aileron and see how bad it makes things :) Right now, it seems like there isn't too much stiffness in the system, and IM sure it will smooth out after time. I just want to make sure I get full deflection for out mighty crosswinds out here. Thanks for the help. Kurt Winker 173 FGE.... flipper fiddling. From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 22 03:50:46 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Fred Marconi) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:50:46 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited References: <24.50ea75ea.2d811bac@aol.com> <6.0.3.0.0.20040313075201.03614870@mail.tnstaafl.net> Message-ID: <01b201c40fc0$db7a9d80$6700a8c0@thebeach.net> Bob: Who did you get at Falcon. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" To: Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:52 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited > Who'd you talk to at Falcon? > > Scott > > At 06:32 PM 3/10/2004, you wrote: > >I have been carrying insurance with Pam for two years. As a low time > >Velocity pilot, I felt lucky to get coverage of any sort. The bitter pill > >for me was the 10% dedcutable on hull coverage. > > > >I have recently renewed with Falcon. The premium is about $100 less, the > >hull deductable is $100 and the coverage includes all ground operations as > >opposed to coverage only when not operating. > > > >BTW, I am a VFR pilot, have about 360 hours total, 219 in a Velocity. Mine > >is an XL FG. And some of you will recall that I had an accident last fall > >at Copperstate. So right now, Falcon is my friend. > > > >Bob Wood > > > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." > - Benjamin Franklin > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 22 12:00:46 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:00:46 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited Message-ID: <30.5230531a.2d902f6e@aol.com> --part1_30.5230531a.2d902f6e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim Nelson at 1-866-67-4322 Bob From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 22 12:01:32 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:01:32 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:Insurance revisited Message-ID: <112.302671a3.2d902f9c@aol.com> --part1_112.302671a3.2d902f9c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Make that Jim Nelson at 1-866-647-4322 Bob From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 23 02:02:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jim Sower) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:02:26 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Fuel Flow gauge ... References: <110.2f96b1a7.2d8dcf95@aol.com> Message-ID: <405F9AB2.30EE3ED0@frontiernet.net> Does anyone have any experience with the Micro-1000 Mizer fuel flow gauge on p-363 of the ASS catalog? I'm considering one but would like to hear recommendations for and against if anyone has any first- or second-hand info. Thanks ... Jim S. From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 25 15:38:15 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Jack Sheehan) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:38:15 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR: In-Reply-To: <0A907202.098DC0C4.0086622B@aol.com> References: <0A907202.098DC0C4.0086622B@aol.com> Message-ID: Test, Test, Test From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 25 17:51:57 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:51:57 EST Subject: REFLECTOR: Message-ID: <7a.53470a27.2d94763d@aol.com> --part1_7a.53470a27.2d94763d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Working, working, working. Bob Wood From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 25 21:48:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ronnie Brown) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:48:28 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR: References: <7a.53470a27.2d94763d@aol.com> Message-ID: <002c01c412b2$e8d88880$92414744@atlaga.adelphia.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C41288.FFA6F300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Flying, flying, flying.=20 Dave and the rest of you, glad to hear you are working, working, = working. Then you can be Flying, flying, flying, soon!!! Ronnie ----- Original Message -----=20 From: SlvEgl99@aol.com=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Working, working, working. Bob Wood From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 25 22:40:30 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Ueli Christen) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:40:30 +0100 Subject: AW: REFLECTOR: In-Reply-To: <7a.53470a27.2d94763d@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040325224039.BPNL24688.fep01-svc.swip.net@uelichristen> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C412C2.9092C630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Waiting, waiting, waiting, again for flying with my Velocity to Lakeland. Hope I see you all there Best Regards Ueli _____ =20 Von: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] Im = Auftrag von SlvEgl99@aol.com Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. M=E4rz 2004 18:52 An: reflector@tvbf.org Betreff: Re: REFLECTOR: =20 Working, working, working. Bob Wood From reflector@tvbf.org Thu Mar 25 23:20:28 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:20:28 EST Subject: AW: REFLECTOR: Message-ID: <1c2.16c1d462.2d94c33c@aol.com> --part1_1c2.16c1d462.2d94c33c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ueli, I will have a booth in the ultralight area. We are holding a Sport Aviation Expo here at our airport in October and we are advertizing it at Sun'nFun next month. See you there. Bob --part1_1c2.16c1d462.2d94c33c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ueli,

I will have a booth in the ultralight area.  We are holding a Sport Avi= ation Expo here at our airport in October and we are advertizing it at Sun'n= Fun next month.

See you there.

Bob --part1_1c2.16c1d462.2d94c33c_boundary-- From reflector@tvbf.org Sun Mar 28 19:18:41 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Chuck Jensen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:18:41 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C414F9.7BBC1EE0 Content-Type: text/plain Has anyone had some experience with Grand Rapids ( http://www.grtavionics.com/relatively ) new EFIS unit. I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system and think well of it and the company, but of course, the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On GRT's web site, under installation, there was a photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com , but I haven't been able to contact him by email to see if the unit was installed before he sold the plane or who's currently flying it....and what their impressions were. In short, anyone have any feedback about GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss the same. Chuck 27GV, Panel under (re)construction From reflector@tvbf.org Sun Mar 28 19:48:40 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Chuck Jensen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:48:40 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C414FD.ACD82070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" With correct web-link and in non-annoying smaller print. Has anyone had some experience with Grand Rapids ( http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system and think well of it and the company, but of course, the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On GRT's web site, under installation, there was a photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't been able to contact him by email to see if the unit was installed before he sold the plane or who's currently flying it....and what their impressions were. In short, anyone have any feedback about GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss the same. Chuck 27GV, Panel under (re)construction From reflector@tvbf.org Sun Mar 28 22:16:06 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:16:06 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: Message-ID: <001501c41512$43ee45a0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C414CF.3587E220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chuck, I'm also looking for some "reports from the field" on the GRT EFIS. I = have been checking their website pretty regularly the last few months, = and they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so it's still = pretty early. They are shipping them as fast as they come off the line, = so a lot more will be flying by Oshkosh time. Unless I hear some horror stories in the next few months, I'll probably = be putting a two-display GRT system in my panel along with their EIS = 6000 engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary flight display = for the upper, and a multiple-mode display for the lower. That would = provide moving map and graphical engine parameters on the lower display = under normal conditions, and a backup for the primary flight display if = the upper one ever goes belly-up. The handheld and panel-mount GPSs = would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would provide digital = engine parameters. The other backups would be a mechanical airspeed and = altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from TruTrak. This looks to be = a pretty fault-tolerant no-gyro system at a very reasonable cost. Any = critics? The only real shock lately has been the enormous recent price spike in = pitot tubes. Anyone got a line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? Keith Hallsten, XLFG ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Jensen=20 To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'=20 Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS With correct web-link and in non-annoying smaller print.=20 Has anyone had some experience with Grand Rapids = (http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. I understand several have = flow the GRT EIS system and think well of it and the company, but of = course, the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On GRT's web = site, under installation, there was a photo of an installation in = Velocity N31VC, which, with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand = belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't been able to = contact him by email to see if the unit was installed before he sold the = plane or who's currently flying it....and what their impressions were. In short, anyone have any feedback about GRT's EFIS or know anyone I = could contact to discuss the same. Chuck 27GV, Panel under (re)construction From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 03:36:14 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Chuck Jensen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:36:14 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Message-ID: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4153E.FE09E260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Keith, I don't know if its a good price but Dynon ( http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/pitotfeatures.html ) has a $199 unit on their site that also does angle of attach (apparently by measuring the pressure differential between an angled opening and the pressure in the main pitot) but that's only with their EFIS. I didn't figure out if the pitot works without their EFIS. If it does, is $199 half way reasonable for a heated pitot? If I get any other feedback on the GRT unit from other than the Reflector, I'll pass it along. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of KeithHallsten Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:16 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Chuck, I'm also looking for some "reports from the field" on the GRT EFIS. I have been checking their website pretty regularly the last few months, and they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so it's still pretty early. They are shipping them as fast as they come off the line, so a lot more will be flying by Oshkosh time. Unless I hear some horror stories in the next few months, I'll probably be putting a two-display GRT system in my panel along with their EIS 6000 engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary flight display for the upper, and a multiple-mode display for the lower. That would provide moving map and graphical engine parameters on the lower display under normal conditions, and a backup for the primary flight display if the upper one ever goes belly-up. The handheld and panel-mount GPSs would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would provide digital engine parameters. The other backups would be a mechanical airspeed and altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from TruTrak. This looks to be a pretty fault-tolerant no-gyro system at a very reasonable cost. Any critics? The only real shock lately has been the enormous recent price spike in pitot tubes. Anyone got a line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? Keith Hallsten, XLFG ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Jensen To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS With correct web-link and in non-annoying smaller print. Has anyone had some experience with Grand Rapids ( http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system and think well of it and the company, but of course, the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On GRT's web site, under installation, there was a photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't been able to contact him by email to see if the unit was installed before he sold the plane or who's currently flying it....and what their impressions were. In short, anyone have any feedback about GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss the same. Chuck 27GV, Panel under (re)construction From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 03:43:19 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:43:19 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:LYCOMING 540 AD ALERT!! Message-ID: <29CE5873.5194D818.00182997@aol.com> For those of you out there that have the lycoming 540 Engine the FAA has just revised AD (AD 2002-23-06) with (AD 2004-05-24) Amendment 39-13519, effective March 30, 2004. The AD includes 161 more engines to the list of engines needin the crankshaft gear bolt replacemen. Hope it does not include yours. But this is a serious AD if you are not aware of it get a copy. Steve Velocity XL-RG N787SB From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 15:53:48 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:53:48 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: Message-ID: <000d01c415a6$064d4c20$1da33c42@quiknet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C41562.F7C556E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chuck, Yes, I've been looking at that one. It's not clear if they have any = brackets to mount it under a wing or on the canard. I may have to call = them. Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? Keith=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Jensen=20 To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'=20 Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Keith, I don't know if its a good price but Dynon = (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/pitotfeatures.html) has a $199 unit = on their site that also does angle of attach (apparently by measuring = the pressure differential between an angled opening and the pressure in = the main pitot) but that's only with their EFIS. I didn't figure out if = the pitot works without their EFIS. If it does, is $199 half way = reasonable for a heated pitot? If I get any other feedback on the GRT unit from other than the = Reflector, I'll pass it along. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On = Behalf Of KeithHallsten Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:16 PM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Chuck, I'm also looking for some "reports from the field" on the GRT EFIS. = I have been checking their website pretty regularly the last few months, = and they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so it's still = pretty early. They are shipping them as fast as they come off the line, = so a lot more will be flying by Oshkosh time. Unless I hear some horror stories in the next few months, I'll = probably be putting a two-display GRT system in my panel along with = their EIS 6000 engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary = flight display for the upper, and a multiple-mode display for the lower. = That would provide moving map and graphical engine parameters on the = lower display under normal conditions, and a backup for the primary = flight display if the upper one ever goes belly-up. The handheld and = panel-mount GPSs would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would = provide digital engine parameters. The other backups would be a = mechanical airspeed and altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from = TruTrak. This looks to be a pretty fault-tolerant no-gyro system at a = very reasonable cost. Any critics? The only real shock lately has been the enormous recent price spike = in pitot tubes. Anyone got a line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? Keith Hallsten, XLFG ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Jensen=20 To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'=20 Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS With correct web-link and in non-annoying smaller print.=20 Has anyone had some experience with Grand Rapids = (http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. I understand several have = flow the GRT EIS system and think well of it and the company, but of = course, the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On GRT's web = site, under installation, there was a photo of an installation in = Velocity N31VC, which, with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand = belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't been able to = contact him by email to see if the unit was installed before he sold the = plane or who's currently flying it....and what their impressions were. In short, anyone have any feedback about GRT's EFIS or know = anyone I could contact to discuss the same. Chuck 27GV, Panel under (re)construction From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 15:54:16 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Derrick) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:54:16 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dynon EFIS D-10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.0.20040329085158.037d4c48@mail.tnstaafl.net> Anybody flying with the Dynon EFIS? It looks like the best bang for you buck in the EFIS market. Is it sunlight readable? Does it look as good as the picture on the web site? Any problems? Scott "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." - Benjamin Franklin From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 17:15:56 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:15:56 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. Message-ID: <1dd.1dabdafc.2d99b3cc@aol.com> -------------------------------1080580556 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My hanger neighbor who is finishing up a Cozy4 and purchased a Hoffman propeller due the RPM restriction placed on mts installed on non-counter weighted engines told me that mt now has a new blade/propeller for sale that will eliminate the restrictions. Scott B; any info on this? I wonder if those who purchased before the restriction were put in place will be eligible for a blade replacement at a "fair" cost. TEC -------------------------------1080580556 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My hanger neighbor who is finishing up a Cozy4 and purchased a Hoffman=20= propeller due the RPM restriction placed on mts installed on non-counter wei= ghted engines told me that mt now has a new blade/propeller for sale th= at will eliminate the restrictions.
 
Scott B; any info on this? 
 
I wonder if those who purchased before the restriction were put in plac= e will be eligible for a blade replacement at a "fair" cost.
 
TEC
-------------------------------1080580556-- From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 17:35:39 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:35:39 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Message-ID: <18D1DC35.714C3DB2.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> >>On Grit's web site, under installation, there was a photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, with Ronnie Browns detective work, I understand belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, << Well I'll be! That is my old 115XL! The only way I could tell that once was mine though was by the throttle quadrant on the left. I would recognize those little wooden balls anywhere! :-) Sorry I can't give you any info Chuck. The buyer has apparently done this although it looks like he kept the same "Sacred 6" and the VMS 1000 that I had in there. Not much else is the same. I really like how he kept the basic steam gauges as a backup. I am stunned he squeezed all that in! :-) It's a shame this buyer is not on reflector as it looks like he has a lot of info to offer. I told him about reflector when I sold it to him. I see the electric heat switch and that was a recent thread. Ah well. Rob From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 17:46:20 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:46:20 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Message-ID: <306857AC.43894626.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, KeithHallsten@quiknet.com writes: > Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? IF anyone is interested.... I used a Russian heated pitot on 115XL. It is different but *very* reasonably priced. At one point I was thinking about importing them but our own Don Hammond was working on building his own heated pitot for sale to homebuilders so I dropped the idea. I have not heard from Don in a long time and don't know where his pitot project went. I e-mailed his old hot mail account last week just to see how things were, not related to pitot tubes, just a general catch up note since we are in the same area and the same career field but his hot mail account bounced back as no good anymore. Don? You out there? If not and if enough people are interested in a cheap yet effective Russian heated pitot tubes let me know and I will will follow up on getting some shipped. I am thinking they will be right around $50 after shipping-customs etc. Rob Johnson From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 18:11:18 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dan Fast) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:11:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS In-Reply-To: <000d01c415a6$064d4c20$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <20040329181118.18328.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Have you checked with Natalie at Velocity Factory...I have found that in most cases their pricing is competitive or less...Dan --- KeithHallsten wrote: > Chuck, > > Yes, I've been looking at that one. It's not clear > if they have any brackets to mount it under a wing > or on the canard. I may have to call them. Anyone > else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > Keith > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck Jensen > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:36 PM > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > Technologies-EFIS > > > Keith, > > I don't know if its a good price but Dynon > (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/pitotfeatures.html) > has a $199 unit on their site that also does angle > of attach (apparently by measuring the pressure > differential between an angled opening and the > pressure in the main pitot) but that's only with > their EFIS. I didn't figure out if the pitot works > without their EFIS. If it does, is $199 half way > reasonable for a heated pitot? > > If I get any other feedback on the GRT unit from > other than the Reflector, I'll pass it along. > > Chuck > -----Original Message----- > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org > [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of > KeithHallsten > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:16 PM > To: reflector@tvbf.org > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > Technologies-EFIS > > > Chuck, > > I'm also looking for some "reports from the > field" on the GRT EFIS. I have been checking their > website pretty regularly the last few months, and > they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so > it's still pretty early. They are shipping them as > fast as they come off the line, so a lot more will > be flying by Oshkosh time. > > Unless I hear some horror stories in the next > few months, I'll probably be putting a two-display > GRT system in my panel along with their EIS 6000 > engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary > flight display for the upper, and a multiple-mode > display for the lower. That would provide moving > map and graphical engine parameters on the lower > display under normal conditions, and a backup for > the primary flight display if the upper one ever > goes belly-up. The handheld and panel-mount GPSs > would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would > provide digital engine parameters. The other > backups would be a mechanical airspeed and > altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from > TruTrak. This looks to be a pretty fault-tolerant > no-gyro system at a very reasonable cost. Any > critics? > > The only real shock lately has been the enormous > recent price spike in pitot tubes. Anyone got a > line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chuck Jensen > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > Technologies-EFIS > > > With correct web-link and in non-annoying > smaller print. > > Has anyone had some experience with Grand > Rapids (http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. > I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system > and think well of it and the company, but of course, > the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On > GRT's web site, under installation, there was a > photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, > with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand > belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't > been able to contact him by email to see if the unit > was installed before he sold the plane or who's > currently flying it....and what their impressions > were. > > In short, anyone have any feedback about > GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss > the same. > > Chuck > 27GV, Panel under (re)construction __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 18:33:12 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tom Martino) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:33:12 -0700 Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C415BC.4A743A47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What, specifically, is the restriction? -----Original Message----- From: HYTEC45@aol.com [mailto:HYTEC45@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:16 AM To: reflector@awpi.com Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. My hanger neighbor who is finishing up a Cozy4 and purchased a Hoffman = propeller due the RPM restriction placed on mts installed on non-counter = weighted engines told me that mt now has a new blade/propeller for sale = that will eliminate the restrictions. =20 Scott B; any info on this? =20 =20 I wonder if those who purchased before the restriction were put in place = will be eligible for a blade replacement at a "fair" cost. =20 TEC From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 19:18:22 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:18:22 EST Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. Message-ID: -------------------------------1080587902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:35:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, tmartino@troubleshooter.com writes: What, specifically, is the restriction? VV # 34. Page 10. No contunuous operation between 2250-2550, and above 2650 rpm. TEC From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 20:52:36 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (John Tvedte) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:52:36 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. Message-ID: <6AC8927C5EE1794E8A8D8598BF6D7F043BCBC5@exchange.comp-sol.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 22:30:37 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Baker) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:30:37 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. References: <6AC8927C5EE1794E8A8D8598BF6D7F043BCBC5@exchange.comp-sol.com> Message-ID: <002101c415dd$7de91700$0200a8c0@DAD> and more precisely, only those O-360 and IO-360 Lycoming engines without a counter weighted crankshaft. Scott B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tvedte" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. > BTW Tom - this is for the 360 lycomings... > > -----Original Message----- > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org on behalf of HYTEC45@aol.com > Sent: Mon 3/29/2004 1:18 PM > To: reflector@tvbf.org > Cc: > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. > > > In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:35:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, tmartino@troubleshooter.com writes: > > What, specifically, is the restriction? > > VV # 34. Page 10. > > No contunuous operation between 2250-2550, and above 2650 rpm. > > TEC > > From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 22:33:20 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Alex Balic) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:33:20 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS In-Reply-To: <306857AC.43894626.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> Message-ID: Don fell into some financial difficulties and was selling his project last I heard- I wish him the best if he is still monitoring the reflector, but I don't think we will be seeing any pitos from him- he worked hard on that unit too- looked robust and was reasonably priced- I will have the Dynon with it's AOA pitot and a standard, overpriced heated tube that I got from ACS a while back when they were "just" $200 each. -----Original Message----- From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of RJohn15183@aol.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:46 AM To: reflector@tvbf.org Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, KeithHallsten@quiknet.com writes: > Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? IF anyone is interested.... I used a Russian heated pitot on 115XL. It is different but *very* reasonably priced. At one point I was thinking about importing them but our own Don Hammond was working on building his own heated pitot for sale to homebuilders so I dropped the idea. I have not heard from Don in a long time and don't know where his pitot project went. I e-mailed his old hot mail account last week just to see how things were, not related to pitot tubes, just a general catch up note since we are in the same area and the same career field but his hot mail account bounced back as no good anymore. Don? You out there? If not and if enough people are interested in a cheap yet effective Russian heated pitot tubes let me know and I will will follow up on getting some shipped. I am thinking they will be right around $50 after shipping-customs etc. Rob Johnson _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 22:40:47 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Baker) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:40:47 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. References: Message-ID: <002501c415de$e326f280$0200a8c0@DAD> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C415B4.F8124520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tom, Mt has started production of the "new style" blades, which make the = propeller suitable for non-counter weighted crankshaft Lycoming engines = (180, 200hp). We will be meeting with Mt during SnF to talk about = preferred overhaul pricing for previous Mt customers that are affected = by propellers with rpm restrictions. Give my regards to Don H. Scott B. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tom Martino=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:33 PM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. What, specifically, is the restriction? -----Original Message----- From: HYTEC45@aol.com [mailto:HYTEC45@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:16 AM To: reflector@awpi.com Subject: REFLECTOR:mt Blades. My hanger neighbor who is finishing up a Cozy4 and purchased a = Hoffman propeller due the RPM restriction placed on mts installed on = non-counter weighted engines told me that mt now has a new = blade/propeller for sale that will eliminate the restrictions. Scott B; any info on this? =20 I wonder if those who purchased before the restriction were put in = place will be eligible for a blade replacement at a "fair" cost. TEC From reflector@tvbf.org Mon Mar 29 22:45:56 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Baker) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:45:56 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: <20040329181118.18328.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003301c415df$9d783e50$0200a8c0@DAD> Velocity factory prices for heated pitot tubes are going through the roof ... $400 and climbing. Say ... Who was the builder in Texas who designed a "home grown" heated pitot? A few years ago he introduced it to the Reflector, but the price was too close to the "catalog" pitot tube that no one was especially interested. I think the time is right to bring this idea back to the front burner. I saw a prototype, all chromed up, looked okay, but still at bit "home grown". It looked quite functional however. SB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Fast" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > Have you checked with Natalie at Velocity Factory...I > have found that in most cases their pricing is > competitive or less...Dan > --- KeithHallsten wrote: > > Chuck, > > > > Yes, I've been looking at that one. It's not clear > > if they have any brackets to mount it under a wing > > or on the canard. I may have to call them. Anyone > > else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > > > Keith > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Jensen > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:36 PM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > Keith, > > > > I don't know if its a good price but Dynon > > > (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/pitotfeatures.html) > > has a $199 unit on their site that also does angle > > of attach (apparently by measuring the pressure > > differential between an angled opening and the > > pressure in the main pitot) but that's only with > > their EFIS. I didn't figure out if the pitot works > > without their EFIS. If it does, is $199 half way > > reasonable for a heated pitot? > > > > If I get any other feedback on the GRT unit from > > other than the Reflector, I'll pass it along. > > > > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org > > [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of > > KeithHallsten > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:16 PM > > To: reflector@tvbf.org > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > Chuck, > > > > I'm also looking for some "reports from the > > field" on the GRT EFIS. I have been checking their > > website pretty regularly the last few months, and > > they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so > > it's still pretty early. They are shipping them as > > fast as they come off the line, so a lot more will > > be flying by Oshkosh time. > > > > Unless I hear some horror stories in the next > > few months, I'll probably be putting a two-display > > GRT system in my panel along with their EIS 6000 > > engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary > > flight display for the upper, and a multiple-mode > > display for the lower. That would provide moving > > map and graphical engine parameters on the lower > > display under normal conditions, and a backup for > > the primary flight display if the upper one ever > > goes belly-up. The handheld and panel-mount GPSs > > would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would > > provide digital engine parameters. The other > > backups would be a mechanical airspeed and > > altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from > > TruTrak. This looks to be a pretty fault-tolerant > > no-gyro system at a very reasonable cost. Any > > critics? > > > > The only real shock lately has been the enormous > > recent price spike in pitot tubes. Anyone got a > > line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chuck Jensen > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > With correct web-link and in non-annoying > > smaller print. > > > > Has anyone had some experience with Grand > > Rapids (http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. > > I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system > > and think well of it and the company, but of course, > > the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On > > GRT's web site, under installation, there was a > > photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, > > with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand > > belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't > > been able to contact him by email to see if the unit > > was installed before he sold the plane or who's > > currently flying it....and what their impressions > > were. > > > > In short, anyone have any feedback about > > GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss > > the same. > > > > Chuck > > 27GV, Panel under (re)construction > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 02:31:38 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Airmech) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:31:38 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: <20040329181118.18328.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c415df$9d783e50$0200a8c0@DAD> Message-ID: <005201c415ff$2156ffd0$3201a8c0@airmech1pzvzmf> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C415BC.13077FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Air-Parts of Lock Haven sells new Piper type heated pitot/ static masts. = Last I checked I believe they were under $200. We mounted ours on the = fuselage side under the canard. You have to make a base for it to sit = straight. bg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Baker=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:45 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Velocity factory prices for heated pitot tubes are going through the = roof ... $400 and climbing. Say ... Who was the builder in Texas who designed a "home grown" = heated pitot? A few years ago he introduced it to the Reflector, but the = price was too close to the "catalog" pitot tube that no one was especially = interested. I think the time is right to bring this idea back to the front burner. = I saw a prototype, all chromed up, looked okay, but still at bit "home = grown". It looked quite functional however. SB ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Dan Fast" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > Have you checked with Natalie at Velocity Factory...I > have found that in most cases their pricing is > competitive or less...Dan > --- KeithHallsten wrote: > > Chuck, > > > > Yes, I've been looking at that one. It's not clear > > if they have any brackets to mount it under a wing > > or on the canard. I may have to call them. Anyone > > else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > > > Keith > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: Chuck Jensen > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:36 PM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > Keith, > > > > I don't know if its a good price but Dynon > > > (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/pitotfeatures.html) > > has a $199 unit on their site that also does angle > > of attach (apparently by measuring the pressure > > differential between an angled opening and the > > pressure in the main pitot) but that's only with > > their EFIS. I didn't figure out if the pitot works > > without their EFIS. If it does, is $199 half way > > reasonable for a heated pitot? > > > > If I get any other feedback on the GRT unit from > > other than the Reflector, I'll pass it along. > > > > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org > > [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of > > KeithHallsten > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:16 PM > > To: reflector@tvbf.org > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > Chuck, > > > > I'm also looking for some "reports from the > > field" on the GRT EFIS. I have been checking their > > website pretty regularly the last few months, and > > they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so > > it's still pretty early. They are shipping them as > > fast as they come off the line, so a lot more will > > be flying by Oshkosh time. > > > > Unless I hear some horror stories in the next > > few months, I'll probably be putting a two-display > > GRT system in my panel along with their EIS 6000 > > engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary > > flight display for the upper, and a multiple-mode > > display for the lower. That would provide moving > > map and graphical engine parameters on the lower > > display under normal conditions, and a backup for > > the primary flight display if the upper one ever > > goes belly-up. The handheld and panel-mount GPSs > > would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would > > provide digital engine parameters. The other > > backups would be a mechanical airspeed and > > altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from > > TruTrak. This looks to be a pretty fault-tolerant > > no-gyro system at a very reasonable cost. Any > > critics? > > > > The only real shock lately has been the enormous > > recent price spike in pitot tubes. Anyone got a > > line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: Chuck Jensen > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > With correct web-link and in non-annoying > > smaller print. > > > > Has anyone had some experience with Grand > > Rapids (http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. > > I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system > > and think well of it and the company, but of course, > > the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On > > GRT's web site, under installation, there was a > > photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, > > with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand > > belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't > > been able to contact him by email to see if the unit > > was installed before he sold the plane or who's > > currently flying it....and what their impressions > > were. > > > > In short, anyone have any feedback about > > GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss > > the same. > > > > Chuck > > 27GV, Panel under (re)construction > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: = http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit = http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: = http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 02:45:45 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Dave Nelson) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:45:45 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dynon EFIS D-10 References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040329085158.037d4c48@mail.tnstaafl.net> Message-ID: <002701c41601$1a091e00$6501a8c0@HomeVelocity> I've been flying the Dynon for about 70 hours in my STD-RG. Overall I'm very happy with the system. I've shot many "partial panel" approaches using just the D-10, and it sorta seems like cheating! No problems with sunlight readability. Good support from the factory (I did have a battery problem along the way). I really think for the money it's a bargain. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:54 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Dynon EFIS D-10 > Anybody flying with the Dynon EFIS? > > It looks like the best bang for you buck in the EFIS market. > > Is it sunlight readable? Does it look as good as the picture on the web site? > > Any problems? > > Scott > > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." > - Benjamin Franklin > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 03:08:18 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:08:18 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: <306857AC.43894626.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> Message-ID: <002d01c41604$40428cc0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Rob, If the Russian pitots are a reasonably sound, functional product and you could bring them in to sell for even $100 each, I think you would sell a TON of them. I would be the first in line! Do you have any photos or drawings? The US manufacturers seem to think they have a corner on the market and can milk it for all it's worth. It's interesting that you can buy a TSO'ed true airspeed indicator for FAR less than a simple heated pitot tube, and the difference in manufacturing capability isn't even in the same ballpark. Something smells rotten here, and I'm not in much of a mood to get reamed on the purchase of a pitot. It's either that or go back to the "make your own pitot tube from a piece of steel brake line" as shown in the old Velocity manual! Keith Hallsten ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, KeithHallsten@quiknet.com writes: > > > Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > IF anyone is interested.... > > I used a Russian heated pitot on 115XL. It is different but *very* reasonably priced. At one point I was thinking about importing them but our own Don Hammond was working on building his own heated pitot for sale to homebuilders so I dropped the idea. > > I have not heard from Don in a long time and don't know where his pitot project went. I e-mailed his old hot mail account last week just to see how things were, not related to pitot tubes, just a general catch up note since we are in the same area and the same career field but his hot mail account bounced back as no good anymore. > > Don? You out there? If not and if enough people are interested in a cheap yet effective Russian heated pitot tubes let me know and I will will follow up on getting some shipped. I am thinking they will be right around $50 after shipping-customs etc. > > Rob Johnson > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 03:12:46 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:12:46 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Dynon EFIS D-10 References: <6.0.3.0.0.20040329085158.037d4c48@mail.tnstaafl.net> Message-ID: <003701c41604$e02f6820$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Scott, I don't have a Dynon, but I've been watching the development of this product. I have decided that I want a larger display and more capability, along with greater assurance of data reliability. However, I have talked to several people who are flying with them and think they're great. I think they would make a terrific single-hole backup for your primary flight instruments. Keith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:54 AM Subject: REFLECTOR:Dynon EFIS D-10 > Anybody flying with the Dynon EFIS? > > It looks like the best bang for you buck in the EFIS market. > > Is it sunlight readable? Does it look as good as the picture on the web site? > > Any problems? > > Scott > > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither." > - Benjamin Franklin > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 04:17:34 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (KeithHallsten) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:17:34 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Heated Pitot References: <20040329181118.18328.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c415df$9d783e50$0200a8c0@DAD> <005201c415ff$2156ffd0$3201a8c0@airmech1pzvzmf> Message-ID: <000b01c4160d$ed9705a0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C415CA.DF277A60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Air Parts of Lock Haven's on-line 2002-2003 catalog shows an overhaul = price of $200 for most models of blade-type heated pitots, plus a core = charge of $100. I didn't see any new pitots in their catalog. It's = too late to call now, but I suspect that their 2004 price is much = higher, since that's what the market has done. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Airmech=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:31 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Air-Parts of Lock Haven sells new Piper type heated pitot/ static = masts. Last I checked I believe they were under $200. We mounted ours on = the fuselage side under the canard. You have to make a base for it to = sit straight. bg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Scott Baker=20 To: reflector@tvbf.org=20 Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:45 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS Velocity factory prices for heated pitot tubes are going through the = roof ... $400 and climbing. Say ... Who was the builder in Texas who designed a "home grown" = heated pitot? A few years ago he introduced it to the Reflector, but the = price was too close to the "catalog" pitot tube that no one was especially = interested. I think the time is right to bring this idea back to the front = burner. I saw a prototype, all chromed up, looked okay, but still at bit "home = grown". It looked quite functional however. SB ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Dan Fast" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:11 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > Have you checked with Natalie at Velocity Factory...I > have found that in most cases their pricing is > competitive or less...Dan > --- KeithHallsten wrote: > > Chuck, > > > > Yes, I've been looking at that one. It's not clear > > if they have any brackets to mount it under a wing > > or on the canard. I may have to call them. Anyone > > else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > > > Keith > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: Chuck Jensen > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:36 PM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > Keith, > > > > I don't know if its a good price but Dynon > > > (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/pitotfeatures.html) > > has a $199 unit on their site that also does angle > > of attach (apparently by measuring the pressure > > differential between an angled opening and the > > pressure in the main pitot) but that's only with > > their EFIS. I didn't figure out if the pitot works > > without their EFIS. If it does, is $199 half way > > reasonable for a heated pitot? > > > > If I get any other feedback on the GRT unit from > > other than the Reflector, I'll pass it along. > > > > Chuck > > -----Original Message----- > > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org > > [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of > > KeithHallsten > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:16 PM > > To: reflector@tvbf.org > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > Chuck, > > > > I'm also looking for some "reports from the > > field" on the GRT EFIS. I have been checking their > > website pretty regularly the last few months, and > > they note that 5 of their systems are now flying, so > > it's still pretty early. They are shipping them as > > fast as they come off the line, so a lot more will > > be flying by Oshkosh time. > > > > Unless I hear some horror stories in the next > > few months, I'll probably be putting a two-display > > GRT system in my panel along with their EIS 6000 > > engine monitor. I'm thinking of a dedicated primary > > flight display for the upper, and a multiple-mode > > display for the lower. That would provide moving > > map and graphical engine parameters on the lower > > display under normal conditions, and a backup for > > the primary flight display if the upper one ever > > goes belly-up. The handheld and panel-mount GPSs > > would provide backup moving map, and the EIS would > > provide digital engine parameters. The other > > backups would be a mechanical airspeed and > > altimeter, and the new turn coordinator from > > TruTrak. This looks to be a pretty fault-tolerant > > no-gyro system at a very reasonable cost. Any > > critics? > > > > The only real shock lately has been the enormous > > recent price spike in pitot tubes. Anyone got a > > line on a reasonable-priced heated pitot? > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: Chuck Jensen > > To: 'reflector@tvbf.org' > > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 AM > > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids > > Technologies-EFIS > > > > > > With correct web-link and in non-annoying > > smaller print. > > > > Has anyone had some experience with Grand > > Rapids (http://www.grtavionics.com) new EFIS unit. > > I understand several have flow the GRT EIS system > > and think well of it and the company, but of course, > > the jump to a full blow EFIS is a quantum leap. On > > GRT's web site, under installation, there was a > > photo of an installation in Velocity N31VC, which, > > with Ronnie Brown's detective work, I understand > > belonged to Rob at RJohn15183@aol.com, but I haven't > > been able to contact him by email to see if the unit > > was installed before he sold the plane or who's > > currently flying it....and what their impressions > > were. > > > > In short, anyone have any feedback about > > GRT's EFIS or know anyone I could contact to discuss > > the same. > > > > Chuck > > 27GV, Panel under (re)construction > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: = http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > _______________________________________________ To change your email address, visit = http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery user:pw =3D tvbf:jamaicangoose Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail Check old archives: = http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 04:39:00 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (velocity xl) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:39:00 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: Message-ID: <005101c41610$ec8d7d80$6400a8c0@attbi.com> If you are looking to make something for airplanes and to sell them the Eye Ball vents fall right up there with the best of them. $172 a piece and the average velocity needs 6 that's $1032.00 just to get some fresh air. Seams like a lot of profit margin in that price. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Balic" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:33 PM Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > Don fell into some financial difficulties and was selling his project last I > heard- I wish him the best if he is still monitoring the reflector, but I > don't think we will be seeing any pitos from him- he worked hard on that > unit too- looked robust and was reasonably priced- I will have the Dynon > with it's AOA pitot and a standard, overpriced heated tube that I got from > ACS a while back when they were "just" $200 each. > > -----Original Message----- > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On > Behalf Of RJohn15183@aol.com > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:46 AM > To: reflector@tvbf.org > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > > > In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, > KeithHallsten@quiknet.com writes: > > > Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > IF anyone is interested.... > > I used a Russian heated pitot on 115XL. It is different but *very* > reasonably priced. At one point I was thinking about importing them but our > own Don Hammond was working on building his own heated pitot for sale to > homebuilders so I dropped the idea. > > I have not heard from Don in a long time and don't know where his pitot > project went. I e-mailed his old hot mail account last week just to see how > things were, not related to pitot tubes, just a general catch up note since > we are in the same area and the same career field but his hot mail account > bounced back as no good anymore. > > Don? You out there? If not and if enough people are interested in a cheap > yet effective Russian heated pitot tubes let me know and I will will follow > up on getting some shipped. I am thinking they will be right around $50 > after shipping-customs etc. > > Rob Johnson > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 07:10:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Greg Poole) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:10:26 +1000 Subject: REFLECTOR:Heated Pitots References: <306857AC.43894626.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> <002d01c41604$40428cc0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c41626$13fef1e0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> Keith, I bought new the regular small heated "L" shaped Aero brand (from Cleveland) pitot for my Std RG E and also have the larger heated joint pitot / static tube from the same company in pretty good nick (for a second hand unit) if you or anybody else wants one at a reasonable price. I believe this larger unit is more suited to the XL model. It is a 12 volt unit and is fully chromed. I will test it to ensure the heater element works before I sell it to anyone. While the factory and other canard builders mount these to the side of the fuselage (as we did with the XL we built here but which is now in California), I note that these tubes are really meant to be mounted from above as "TOP" is stamped on the side of the tube which would face upwards if mounted down from a wing or canard - oh well! Greg in Sydney. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KeithHallsten" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > Rob, > > If the Russian pitots are a reasonably sound, functional product and you > could bring them in to sell for even $100 each, I think you would sell a TON > of them. I would be the first in line! Do you have any photos or drawings? > > The US manufacturers seem to think they have a corner on the market and can > milk it for all it's worth. It's interesting that you can buy a TSO'ed true > airspeed indicator for FAR less than a simple heated pitot tube, and the > difference in manufacturing capability isn't even in the same ballpark. > Something smells rotten here, and I'm not in much of a mood to get reamed on > the purchase of a pitot. > > It's either that or go back to the "make your own pitot tube from a piece of > steel brake line" as shown in the old Velocity manual! > > Keith Hallsten > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:46 AM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > > > > In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, > KeithHallsten@quiknet.com writes: > > > > > Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > > > IF anyone is interested.... > > > > I used a Russian heated pitot on 115XL. It is different but *very* > reasonably priced. At one point I was thinking about importing them but our > own Don Hammond was working on building his own heated pitot for sale to > homebuilders so I dropped the idea. > > > > I have not heard from Don in a long time and don't know where his pitot > project went. I e-mailed his old hot mail account last week just to see how > things were, not related to pitot tubes, just a general catch up note since > we are in the same area and the same career field but his hot mail account > bounced back as no good anymore. > > > > Don? You out there? If not and if enough people are interested in a cheap > yet effective Russian heated pitot tubes let me know and I will will follow > up on getting some shipped. I am thinking they will be right around $50 > after shipping-customs etc. > > > > Rob Johnson > > _______________________________________________ > > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 07:40:40 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (reflector@tvbf.org) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:40:40 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS In-Reply-To: <002d01c41604$40428cc0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> References: <306857AC.43894626.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20040329233955.04648660@mail.adelphia.net> At 07:08 PM 3/29/04 -0800, you wrote: >If the Russian pitots are a reasonably sound, functional product and you >could bring them in to sell for even $100 each, I think you would sell a TON >of them. I would be the first in line! Do you have any photos or drawings? I'd buy a Russian heated pitot for the same price as an American one, just for the novelty. From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 21:55:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Donald Hamm) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:55:26 -0600 Subject: REFLECTOR:Heated Pitot Message-ID: That would be me... I do have a home grown one, but I've had to get it tested in a 'real' situation. The other issue was 'liability' -- you would be suprised how much that is! I'm trying to work our a way to do this and help others... its works great on the ground and has over 5000 hours of testing on the prototype... I was working on the price point around $150 to $160 for a heated pitot/staticy system... -Don http://www.hammsaircraft.com/ttot/ttot.html _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp From reflector@tvbf.org Tue Mar 30 23:15:30 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Scott Derrick) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:15:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: REFLECTOR:Heated Pitot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1114.192.153.24.56.1080688530.squirrel@www.tnstaafl.net> How about a kit? Cheaper for the builder/user, limits liability, easier to produce. Scott > That would be me... > > I do have a home grown one, but I've had to get it tested in a 'real' > situation. The other issue was 'liability' -- you would be suprised how > much that is! > > I'm trying to work our a way to do this and help others... > > its works great on the ground and has over 5000 hours of testing on the > prototype... > > I was working on the price point around $150 to $160 for a heated > pitot/staticy system... > > -Don > > http://www.hammsaircraft.com/ttot/ttot.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and > safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 31 01:04:31 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Tony Babb) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:04:31 -0800 Subject: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS References: <306857AC.43894626.0BE7D1EB@aol.com> <002d01c41604$40428cc0$1da33c42@quiknet.com> Message-ID: <00a501c416bc$212ebb70$6401a8c0@pwcinternal.com> Dynon are offering their heated pitot for $199 and it looks like you need that if you want to display Angle of Attack using their display. ----- Original Message ----- From: "KeithHallsten" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:08 PM Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > Rob, > > If the Russian pitots are a reasonably sound, functional product and you > could bring them in to sell for even $100 each, I think you would sell a TON > of them. I would be the first in line! Do you have any photos or drawings? > > The US manufacturers seem to think they have a corner on the market and can > milk it for all it's worth. It's interesting that you can buy a TSO'ed true > airspeed indicator for FAR less than a simple heated pitot tube, and the > difference in manufacturing capability isn't even in the same ballpark. > Something smells rotten here, and I'm not in much of a mood to get reamed on > the purchase of a pitot. > > It's either that or go back to the "make your own pitot tube from a piece of > steel brake line" as shown in the old Velocity manual! > > Keith Hallsten > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:46 AM > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Grand Rapids Technologies-EFIS > > > > In a message dated 3/29/2004 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, > KeithHallsten@quiknet.com writes: > > > > > Anyone else have a pitot tube for less than $350? > > > > IF anyone is interested.... > > > > I used a Russian heated pitot on 115XL. It is different but *very* > reasonably priced. At one point I was thinking about importing them but our > own Don Hammond was working on building his own heated pitot for sale to > homebuilders so I dropped the idea. > > > > I have not heard from Don in a long time and don't know where his pitot > project went. I e-mailed his old hot mail account last week just to see how > things were, not related to pitot tubes, just a general catch up note since > we are in the same area and the same career field but his hot mail account > bounced back as no good anymore. > > > > Don? You out there? If not and if enough people are interested in a cheap > yet effective Russian heated pitot tubes let me know and I will will follow > up on getting some shipped. I am thinking they will be right around $50 > after shipping-customs etc. > > > > Rob Johnson > > _______________________________________________ > > To change your email address, visit > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector > > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 17:08:26 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Stockman, Bill) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:08:26 -0500 Subject: REFLECTOR:EAA Flyin at Moraine Airpart (Dayton, OH) Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C40C42.762DB0F9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forgive me for interrupting the serious discussions on this forum, but here is a chance to actually use your airplane or to use your car to see real airplanes. =20 EAA Chapter 48 at Moraine Airpark (I73) just south of Dayton Ohio is having its 41st annual fly-in on 2 May along with the required pancake breakfast, aircraft judging and general unlimited airplane talk. This is one of the best fly-ins in the region. Last year we had 240 airplanes show of which almost 100 were homebuilts. We get quite a few canards (LEZs, EZs, Quickies, Variviggins, Berkuts, Cozys, etc), but so far, I have the only Velocity on display. This is a sad showing for the birthplace of Velocity (well sort of, since Duane Swing started his stint with the company a few miles up the road in Phillipsburg)!! =20 =20 I'd love to see some other Velocities show up. If interested give me call on my cell or email. There are plenty of hotels in the area plus the USAF Museum-a truly religious experience for real airplane aficionados. =20 =20 =20 Bill Stockman Dayton Aerospace, Inc (937) 426-4300 (937) 369-4799 Cell =20 From reflector@tvbf.org Wed Mar 17 21:39:13 2004 From: reflector@tvbf.org (Greg Poole) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:39:13 +1100 Subject: REFLECTOR:Speaking of Nose Gear Doors... Message-ID: <008701c40c68$4a4d79a0$4deb64cb@CPQ15218298181> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01C40CC4.7D6D1280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please, who was the builder that modified the hinges of their gear doors = to avoid having to notch the fuselage and provided a better (overlap?) = seal between the doors when closed? Have already cut out and finished my nosegear door hinge brackets (darn = it!) but am willing to do it again or modify same if there is sufficient = advantage on my STd RG E. Thanks, Greg. Greg Poole Principal POOLED RESOURCES PTY LTD 3 Cheltenham Close Castle Hill NSW 2154 =20 gregpoole@pacific.net.au tel:=20 fax:=20 mobile: (612) 9899 2737 (612) 9899 2726 0414 273199 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this?=20 =20