REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP

KeithHallsten KeithHallsten at quiknet.com
Thu Jul 8 20:23:39 CDT 2004 

Darryl,

The prices are on the "Propeller Models" page of their website.

After toying with the idea of ordering one of these nice CS props, I decided
to order a fixed-pitch Catto instead.  Even if I eventually decide to go to
a constant-speed, the fixed-pitch will be a good backup prop.

Keith Hallsten, XLFG


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kufalk" <kufalk at wi.rr.com>
To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP


> I went to http://www.aerocomposites.com and signed up for their mailing
> list.  I said I am in the market for a prop for my Velocity XLRG and said
I
> may be able to wait until next spring to purchase one.  I got a reply from
> Harry.  Here it is...
>
>
> Darrell:
> Thanks for your information.  We will be ready when you are.  We have had
> lots of interest from the Velocity community and orders.  We have
production
> spots in December 04 and January 05.
> Harry
>
>
>
> No mention of cost, but it appears they are moving forward with a pusher
> prop design.
>
> Darrell Kufalk
> building an XLRG in Waukesha WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Velocity xl" <velocityxl at fastmail.fm>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 9:24 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
>
>
> > One thing to keep in mind about a tough prop is if it does not give
> > something else will. And that something could cost a lot more than
> > the propeller .On boats you use aluminum
> > bladed props if you think you might hit some thing. And stainless if
> > you are sure the water is deep and free of debris. If you hit some thing
> > hard enough  with aluminum prop you lose a prop, if you hit some thing
> > with a stainless prop you ding the prop and loose the lower unit.
> >
> > $100 aluminum prop
> > $600 stainless prop
> > $3,000 lower unit
> >
> >
> > Food for thought.
> >
> > Ron
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 4:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> >
> >
> > > Scott,
> > >
> > > The blades of an MT prop are wood (beech near the hub, spruce further
> out)
> > > with two layers of bid laid up wet over the wood.  The Aerocomposites
> prop
> > > has several layers of carbon fiber alternating with woven fiberglass
> tubes
> > > over a foam core.  The epoxy is injected in the mold by
vacuum-assisted
> > > resin transfer, which guarantees no voids and complete wet-out.  The
> epoxy
> > > itself is a special super-tough formulation that can be deflected
> > > significantly without cracking.
> > >
> > > The superior toughness of the Aerocomposites prop was proven when a
> > tractor
> > > airplane had a nose-gear collapse on landing.  After a few powerful
> > > propstikes on the runway, the engine quit and the plane skidded to a
> stop
> > > supported on two blade tips of the 3-blade prop!  I don't remember the
> > > details of this incident, but the image made an impression on me!
> > Contrast
> > > this with any MT prop that's hit something hard - splinters!
> > >
> > > The aerodynamics suuperiority stems mostly from the thinner section
that
> > is
> > > possible with the carbon-fiber construction.  It's well dcoumented in
> > > performance increases with tractor aircraft.  See, for example, the
> > > testimonials on the Aerocomposites website.  Although these are
> anecdotal,
> > I
> > > think you will find a lot of Aerocomposites props on the air race
> winners
> > > this year.
> > >
> > > All that said, I have not yet concluded that I can justify the
increased
> > > cost on my plane.
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 5:32 AM
> > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > >
> > >
> > > > $15,000 sounds like a lot, when an MT is about $10,000.
> > > >
> > > > How did you evaluate its aerodynamic efficiency and in mechanical
> > > strength?
> > > >
> > > > Scott
> > > >
> > > > At 10:23 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote:
> > > > >I did have an extended conversation with the owner of American
> > Propeller
> > > at
> > > > >Golden West.  I told him that I thought Aerocomposites was going to
> > find
> > > it
> > > > >a hard sell to Velocity owners/builders at the price that they were
> > > asking.
> > > > >He took it to heart and said he would discuss it with
Aerocomposites
> > and
> > > get
> > > > >back to me.  Sure enough, Cory called me today to advise that the
> price
> > > for
> > > > >the pusher prop for Velocities has been reduced.  It's now back to
> > $13.9K
> > > > >for the prop and $950 for the spinner, for a total of $14,850.  I
had
> > > been
> > > > >hoping for a little more move in this direction, but at least we
have
> > > some
> > > > >movement!  See http://www.aerocomposites.com
> > > > >
> > > > >I did spend a little time examining an AeroComposites blade in
> > comparison
> > > to
> > > > >an MT blade in American Propeller's booth.  It is clearly a better
> > blade,
> > > > >both in aerodynamic efficiency and in mechanical strength and
> > toughness.
> > > > >Even lightning protection!  Now we have to decide whether these
> > > advantages
> > > > >can justify the price premium!
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith Hallsten, XLFG
> > > > >Still contemplating a propeller order!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> > > > >To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > > >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:42 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The latest on the price situation is that AeroComposites appears
> to
> > > have
> > > > > > raised their price for the pusher prop and spinner recently.
It's
> > now
> > > > > > listed as $14.9K for the prop and $1.15K for the spinner kit,
for
> a
> > > total
> > > > >of
> > > > > > $16,050 plus tax and shipping and handling from Redding, CA.  If
I
> > can
> > > get
> > > > > > TWO MTs for the price of one AeroComposites prop, it kind of
makes
> > the
> > > > > > superior toughness of the AC come at a pretty high price!  I'll
> talk
> > > to
> > > > > > American Propeller at the Golden West fly-in and see what story
> they
> > > tell.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG
> > > > > > Engine on order, trying to decide on a prop!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > > > > > To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:36 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's a quote for an MT I just got.  Almost half the price.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Scott,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have an MT Propeller similar to the MTV-12-B/LD168-101b  3
> blade
> > > > > > > hydraulic propeller listed for the Velocity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is your engine set up for a hydraulic CS propeller?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > List price for this propeller is $9,850 to be delivered from
> > > Germany.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If this is the correct propeller for your Velocity, I can
offer
> it
> > > to
> > > > >you
> > > > > > > for $8,150 assembled in Southern California.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I will check with MT Propeller to make certain I am quoting
the
> > > correct
> > > > > > > propeller for your Velocity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is also an MT elec. CS propeller available for your
> engine,
> > if
> > > you
> > > > > > > are not set up for the hydraulic CS propeller.
> > > > > > > Let me know which will work best for you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Where are you located (city, state)?
> > > > > > > I would like to be able to provide you with an assembled and
> > > delivered
> > > > > > > price, if you are not in Southern California.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 7.25% State Sales tax for California Residents
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim Ayers
> > > > > > > Less Drag Products, Inc.
> > > > > > > <mailto:jim at lessdrag.com>jim at lessdrag.com
> > > > > > > www.lessdrag.com
> > > > > > > (805) 795-5377
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At 10:23 PM 4/26/2004, Keith Hallsten wrote:
> > > > > > > >No, the "Spinner Kit"  (You cut out for blades, sand & paint)
> is
> > an
> > > > > > > >additional $950.  So we're pretty close to that $15K number.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >However, if their claims for superior durability actually
work
> > out
> > > in
> > > > > > > >operation, that might come out cheap, compared to initial
cost
> +
> > > repair
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > >an MT.  It will be interesting to see how this works out.
They
> > > have a
> > > > > > > >pretty good story on their website with regard to design and
> > > > > > > >manufacturing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Keith Hallsten, XLFG (no prop ordered yet)
> > > > > > > >Roseville, CA
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >From: <mailto:sbakr at comcast.net>Scott Baker
> > > > > > > >To: <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>reflector at tvbf.org
> > > > > > > >Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 3:31 PM
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Actually, when Velocity first talked with Aero Composites a
> > little
> > > over
> > > > >a
> > > > > > > >year ago to do a joint-development of a pusher propeller,
they
> > were
> > > > > > > >thinking in the $14K to $15K range.  I'm not sure if the
$13.9K
> > > price
> > > > > > > >includes a spinner, or not.  Hopefully it does.
> > > > > > > >Scott B.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
> > > > - Benjamin Franklin
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
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> >
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>
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