REFLECTOR: Props and runway surfaces (was XLRG on grass)

Alex Balic alex157 at direcway.com
Wed Jul 7 10:01:47 CDT 2004


That would be great Dave, Craig sent me a prop to experiment with as well-
but it is for a 200hp cozy, and I will have just over 300, so it will just
be a basic starting point- I was planning to use his fixed pitch only for
taxi and prelim flight testing, but if he can develop one that is close,
then I might just stick with him for the long term- also, next time you
talk, please ask him if he would be interested in making replacement
constant speed blades.....

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of Dave Dent
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:04 PM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Props and runway surfaces (was XLRG on grass)


I had a long talk with Catto today.  It was most interesting.  When he gets
back from France he and I are putting together a test.  Before he gets back
I am doing a data collection on the MT with my XL  Then he's going to build
me a fixed pitch prop like he did for my the EZ and Cozy.  Of course it will
be for a IO-540 260hp engine.  Much like he did for the Jack Morrison
supercharged E-racer that is pushing a IO-540.  And seeing better then
270Kts.  But he will design it around the Velocity XL specs needed, to come
within 10% of what the MT can do   I told him it wouldn't be hard.  Also it
will be better explosion proof prop, unlike the MT's.  I have seen what a
Catto prop can take and survive.

I know one thing the construction would be a lot better and  it will cost
close to $10,000 Less.  Let alone do away with the pitch control issue and
all that goes with it.

If you want to see one on the IO-540 take a look at the November 2003  Sport
Aviation Magazine. Page 44.
I know with our EZ and Cozy climbing out at 1800fpm and cursing at 170Kts is
nothing to sneeze at.
A friend of mine took the Hartzel CS off his RV-4 and put the Catto fixed on
and he only lost 100fpm on climb and increased on the top end.  Of course he
lost 30lbs plus off the nose as well.

I knew there had to be a better way.   With these new airfoils that he is
coming up with, for the props on light planes the CS props are a waste,
unless you live in the very high altitudes.  Believe me, the prop is the
second most important part on the aircraft.  Without you are nothing but a
glider, but we shouldn't have to pay the cost of sometimes half the price of
a new engine to replace it.  And just to have MT repair, and they don't, you
pay half the price of a new one.  Not good.

I will keep you guys posted on the progress when we get into the testing
with the fixed pitch.


----- Original Message -----
From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Props and runway surfaces (was XLRG on grass)


> Yes, there are no props that won't be damaged, but it seems that the MTs
are
> more fragile than average.  That's one reason why I'm still entertaining
the
> thought of the pricy Aerocomposites prop.  I'm sure it will safely take a
> bit more of the normal wear and tear that the real world inflicts upon all
> things than an MT will.  Probably along the lines of a Catto!
> Keith
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Poole" <gpoole at zeta.org.au>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 1:52 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: XLRG on Grass
>
>
> > In my experience there are grass strips (finely manicured, high %
coverage
> > and no stones, sand or sticks) and there are grass strips (grass 4"
long,
> > 45% coverage, heaps of small to medium stones to vacuum up) so it is
hard
> to
> > draw comparisons when you only have a couple to draw on.
> >
> > My experience with Leon Howe's XL (that Dave Dent now has in California)
> is
> > that the damage to the 3rd set of MT prop blades (within TT of 40hrs)
that
> > was on the plane (the first was destroyed in a hard landing, the 2nd set
> > (you saw in my pictures that Dave Black reposted here) lost 6" off two
> > blades while we were away on a trip, and the 3rd set had very little
time
> > before Mr Dent  bought the aircraft - is that the majority of stone
damage
> > occurred on takeoff, landing and runups on tar.  The XL would likely
take
> > slightly more revs to get rolling on rough surfaces than a Std
fuselage -
> > perhaps that might be another factor involved?
> >
> > Unfortunately all sets of prop blades looked beaten after just a half
> dozen
> > takeoffs and landings. I think our experience backs John Ward's
experience
> > except we might have alot more stones sitting on our asphalt than the US
> > has. My memory of Sebastian FL aerodrome is one of a similar surface as
we
> > have where Leon's plane operated out of. I know the factory regularly
> > refinishes the MT prop blades on its' airplanes but do not recall seeing
> the
> > same amount of dings for time in use that we experienced.
> >
> > I'm looking to put deflectors on my mains and nosegear and to use a more
> > resilient c/s prop than the MT if I can find one ....methinks MT might
be
> > making to much money from repairing blades to bother with putting any
> effort
> > into making a stronger, more resilient blade..
> >
> > Greg in Sydney.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "johnward" <n120rj at gulftel.com>
> > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:03 AM
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: XLRG on Grass
> >
> >
> > > Tim, I'm the John Ward that Ronnie mentioned and I operate my Standard
> > > Velocity RG Elite from a 2,500 foot turf strip.  The engine is an
> > IO-360C1e6
> > > with MT prop.  I wouldn't operate from here if I didn't own the strip
> > > because it's barely long enough.  Have to be pretty light on fuel if I
> > have
> > > a passenger.  The only prop damage, mostly sand abrasion of paint and
> > stone
> > > dings were when I flew off the initial hours after certification at
> > > Sebastian.  The prop has since been repainted and looks like new
except
> > for
> > > one ding from a stone (I think) that happened at RYY, a paved runway.
I
> > > have a total of 155 hours on the plane and I would prefer a grass
strip
> > but
> > > a nice long one like Leeward Air Ranch in central Florida.  The only
> > > downside I have from the turf strip is the dead bug residue on the
prop
> > that
> > > is more prevalent than from a paved surface.  I guess you could hit
the
> > > grass on rotation but that hasn't been a problem since it's mowed once
a
> > > week in the growing season.  I don't believe the grass
clipping/residue
> > that
> > > may hit the prop is going to any more significant than the bugs that
run
> > > into the prop.  I have friends with an XL and long EZ that haven't had
a
> > > problem at my strip.
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > John Ward
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <TimRhod at aol.com>
> > > To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 10:08 PM
> > > Subject: REFLECTOR: XLRG on Grass
> > >
> > >
> > > > Can Anyone share their experience using the XLRG on grass strips.
Does
> > it
> > > > hurt you MT prop if it hits the grass?  Does it hit the grass on
> > rotation
> > > or
> > > > landing?   Any gear problems on grass. Im considering retiring to
an
> > > airpark
> > > > and a lot of the ones I'm considering have grass Strips. If grass is
> OK
> > > what
> > > > would you consider a minimum runway length?   Thanks Tim
Rhodenbaugh
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