REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP

Fri Jul 2 16:53:03 CDT 2004

Scott,

The blades of an MT prop are wood (beech near the hub, spruce further out)
with two layers of bid laid up wet over the wood.  The Aerocomposites prop
has several layers of carbon fiber alternating with woven fiberglass tubes
over a foam core.  The epoxy is injected in the mold by vacuum-assisted
resin transfer, which guarantees no voids and complete wet-out.  The epoxy
itself is a special super-tough formulation that can be deflected
significantly without cracking.

The superior toughness of the Aerocomposites prop was proven when a tractor
airplane had a nose-gear collapse on landing.  After a few powerful
propstikes on the runway, the engine quit and the plane skidded to a stop
supported on two blade tips of the 3-blade prop!  I don't remember the
details of this incident, but the image made an impression on me!  Contrast
this with any MT prop that's hit something hard - splinters!

The aerodynamics suuperiority stems mostly from the thinner section that is
possible with the carbon-fiber construction.  It's well dcoumented in
performance increases with tractor aircraft.  See, for example, the
testimonials on the Aerocomposites website.  Although these are anecdotal, I
think you will find a lot of Aerocomposites props on the air race winners
this year.

All that said, I have not yet concluded that I can justify the increased
cost on my plane.

Keith

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP

> $15,000 sounds like a lot, when an MT is about $10,000.
>
> How did you evaluate its aerodynamic efficiency and in mechanical
strength?
>
> Scott
>
> At 10:23 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote:
> >I did have an extended conversation with the owner of American Propeller
at
> >Golden West.  I told him that I thought Aerocomposites was going to find
it
> >a hard sell to Velocity owners/builders at the price that they were
asking.
> >He took it to heart and said he would discuss it with Aerocomposites and
get
> >back to me.  Sure enough, Cory called me today to advise that the price
for
> >the pusher prop for Velocities has been reduced.  It's now back to $13.9K
> >for the prop and $950 for the spinner, for a total of $14,850.  I had
been
> >hoping for a little more move in this direction, but at least we have
some
> >movement!  See http://www.aerocomposites.com
> >
> >I did spend a little time examining an AeroComposites blade in comparison
to
> >an MT blade in American Propeller's booth.  It is clearly a better blade,
> >both in aerodynamic efficiency and in mechanical strength and toughness.
> >Even lightning protection!  Now we have to decide whether these
advantages
> >can justify the price premium!
> >
> >Keith Hallsten, XLFG
> >Still contemplating a propeller order!
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten at quiknet.com>
> >To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> >Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 11:42 AM
> >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> >
> >
> > > The latest on the price situation is that AeroComposites appears to
have
> > > raised their price for the pusher prop and spinner recently.  It's now
> > > listed as $14.9K for the prop and $1.15K for the spinner kit, for a
total
> >of
> > > $16,050 plus tax and shipping and handling from Redding, CA.  If I can
get
> > > TWO MTs for the price of one AeroComposites prop, it kind of makes the
> > > superior toughness of the AC come at a pretty high price!  I'll talk
to
> > > American Propeller at the Golden West fly-in and see what story they
tell.
> > >
> > > Keith Hallsten, XLFG
> > > Engine on order, trying to decide on a prop!
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
> > > To: <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:36 AM
> > > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > >
> > >
> > > > Here's a quote for an MT I just got.  Almost half the price.
> > > >
> > > > Hi Scott,
> > > >
> > > > I have an MT Propeller similar to the MTV-12-B/LD168-101b  3 blade
> > > > hydraulic propeller listed for the Velocity.
> > > >
> > > > Is your engine set up for a hydraulic CS propeller?
> > > >
> > > > List price for this propeller is $9,850 to be delivered from
Germany.
> > > >
> > > > If this is the correct propeller for your Velocity, I can offer it
to
> >you
> > > > for $8,150 assembled in Southern California.
> > > >
> > > > I will check with MT Propeller to make certain I am quoting the
correct
> > > > propeller for your Velocity.
> > > >
> > > > There is also an MT elec. CS propeller available for your engine, if
you
> > > > are not set up for the hydraulic CS propeller.
> > > > Let me know which will work best for you.
> > > >
> > > > Where are you located (city, state)?
> > > > I would like to be able to provide you with an assembled and
delivered
> > > > price, if you are not in Southern California.
> > > >
> > > > 7.25% State Sales tax for California Residents
> > > >
> > > > Jim Ayers
> > > > Less Drag Products, Inc.
> > > > <mailto:jim at lessdrag.com>jim at lessdrag.com
> > > > www.lessdrag.com
> > > > (805) 795-5377
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 10:23 PM 4/26/2004, Keith Hallsten wrote:
> > > > >No, the "Spinner Kit"  (You cut out for blades, sand & paint) is an
> > > > >additional $950.  So we're pretty close to that $15K number.
> > > > >
> > > > >However, if their claims for superior durability actually work out
in
> > > > >operation, that might come out cheap, compared to initial cost +
repair
> >of
> > > > >an MT.  It will be interesting to see how this works out.  They
have a
> > > > >pretty good story on their website with regard to design and
> > > > >manufacturing.
> > > > >
> > > > >Keith Hallsten, XLFG (no prop ordered yet)
> > > > >Roseville, CA
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: <mailto:sbakr at comcast.net>Scott Baker
> > > > >To: <mailto:reflector at tvbf.org>reflector at tvbf.org
> > > > >Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 3:31 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:AERO COMPOSITES PUSHER PROP
> > > > >
> > > > >Actually, when Velocity first talked with Aero Composites a little
over
> >a
> > > > >year ago to do a joint-development of a pusher propeller, they were
> > > > >thinking in the $14K to $15K range.  I'm not sure if the $13.9K
price
> > > > >includes a spinner, or not.  Hopefully it does.
> > > > >Scott B.
> >
> >
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>
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>
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