REFLECTOR: Vortilons

Mon, 26 Jan 2004 23:53:16 -0600

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I am going to keep my lower winglets, and if I make another canard (which I aim to do)
I'll install them.  They inhibit spanwise flow, and if I have a little wing down in a
crosswind landing, I will merely skag the lower winglet and not tear a rudder off.

I will keep my vortilons and install them on my next airplane because they inhibit
spanwise flow (a big contributor to deep stall), because Burt is really adamant about
retaining vortilons and because I haven't heard an authoritative voice or a convincing
argument for taking/leaving them off.  Besides, they cost nothing in performance.

I have VGs that cost two bucks, take a couple of hours to install or remove.  They buy
me between 8 and 10 kts on landing and 5 on Takeoff.  They may cost me a couple of kts
cruise - I don't know.

I aim to try TE fences, bracketing the ailerons.  They inhibit spanwise flow and
enhance roll authority at low speed.  There's rumors that they make for faster cruise,
but that's rumors.

I have aileron hinge gap seals that enhance low speed roll authority and are reported
to help at cruise.  I see no compelling reason to install rudder hinge gap seals, but
they cost about $1 so why not?  They take about 10 min to install.

With 450 lb in the front seat and a full load of fuel, I fly my approach at about 75
kts and touch down at 65-70.  Someone whose V gets mushy below 100 kts might want to
consider re-visiting some of his cosmetic decisions.

What works for me .... Jim S.

Ronnie Brown wrote:

> And add one more option - lower winglets.  And it would be nice to get an
> "opinion", (Not an official factory recommendation!) for all three
> configurations (if there are some things that would make it different for
> the three).
>
> 1. Std fuse, std wings
> 2. 173 - Std fuse, Long Wings
> 3. XL
>
> Ronnie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Martino" <tmartino@troubleshooter.com>
> To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:40 PM
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Vortilons
>
> | OK ... I must ask the obvious question of those at the factory (Scott,
> Brenden, etc.) ...
> | If you were considering what to do on your very own plane ... what would
> you do?
> |
> | Vortilons?  VGs?  Fences?  All three?  One or the other?
> |
> | I know that you are reluctant to make general recommendations ... but I am
> asking what would YOU do?
> |
> |
> |
> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: Jack Sheehan [mailto:j.f.sheehan@larc.nasa.gov]
> | Sent: Mon 1/26/2004 12:03 PM
> | To: reflector@tvbf.org
> | Cc:
> | Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Vortilons
> |
> |
> |
> | Wow ! So much discussion VG's Vortillons , Trailing edge fences. I
> | must be nuts. I have about 150 Hours on my XL-RG I did the test
> | flying without anything. It flew great. I painted the airplane and it
> | flew better. ( guess I just got better). I have looked at all the
> | stuff and am reluctant to make any changes because the wing just
> | looks good clean. The airplane gets a little sloppy below 100 knots
> | with the gear down. You have to use the rudders to lead the turn and
> | the aileron inputs are very deliberate. The problem I have is I am so
> | used to it everything feels OK. I plan to install the vortillons and
> | see if that makes a big change and then put on some trailing edge
> | fences to see if that does anything. I would remove anything that
> | effects the top end. I would rather go fast.
> | The only other modification I would be looking to do would be to get
> | some more heat in the airplane. On a trip back from Kentucky last
> | week I was really cold OAT -8C @  FL 015 but the ground speed was 260
> | KTS 285 in the decent.
> | Jack
> | N55XL
> | _______________________________________________
> | To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> |
> | Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> | Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery!  www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html

--
Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T

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I am going to keep my lower winglets, and if I make another canard (which
I aim to do) I'll install them.&nbsp; They inhibit spanwise flow, and if
I have a little wing down in a crosswind landing, I will merely skag the
lower winglet and not tear a rudder off.
I will keep my vortilons and install them on my next airplane because
they inhibit spanwise flow (a big contributor to deep stall), because Burt
is really adamant about retaining vortilons and because I
haven't heard an authoritative voice or a convincing argument for taking/leaving
them off.&nbsp; Besides, they cost nothing in performance.
I have VGs that cost two bucks, take a couple of hours to install or
remove.&nbsp; They buy me between 8 and 10 kts on landing and 5 on Takeoff.&nbsp;
They may cost me a couple of kts cruise - I don't know.
I aim to try TE fences, bracketing the ailerons.&nbsp; They inhibit
spanwise flow and enhance roll authority at low speed.&nbsp; There's rumors
that they make for faster cruise, but that's rumors.
I have aileron hinge gap seals that enhance low speed roll authority
and are reported to help at cruise.&nbsp; I see no compelling reason to
install rudder hinge gap seals, but they cost about $1 so why not?&nbsp;
They take about 10 min to install.
With 450 lb in the front seat and a full load of fuel, I fly my approach
at about 75 kts and touch down at 65-70.&nbsp; Someone whose V gets mushy
below 100 kts might want to consider re-visiting some of his cosmetic decisions.
What works for me .... Jim S.
 &nbsp;
Ronnie Brown wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>And add one more option - lower winglets.&nbsp; And
it would be nice to get an
 "opinion", (Not an official factory recommendation!) for all three
 configurations (if there are some things that would make it different
for
 the three).
1. Std fuse, std wings
 2. 173 - Std fuse, Long Wings
 3. XL
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----
 From: "Tom Martino" &lt;tmartino@troubleshooter.com>
 To: &lt;reflector@tvbf.org>
 Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:40 PM
 Subject: RE: REFLECTOR: Vortilons
| OK ... I must ask the obvious question of those at the factory (Scott,
 Brenden, etc.) ...
 | If you were considering what to do on your very own plane ... what
would
 you do?
 |
 | Vortilons?&nbsp; VGs?&nbsp; Fences?&nbsp; All three?&nbsp; One or
the other?
 |
 | I know that you are reluctant to make general recommendations ...
but I am
 asking what would YOU do?
 |
 |
 |
 | -----Original Message-----
 | From: Jack Sheehan [<a href="mailto:j.f.sheehan@larc.nasa.gov">mailto:j.f.sheehan@larc.nasa.gov</a>]
 | Sent: Mon 1/26/2004 12:03 PM
 | To: reflector@tvbf.org
 | Cc:
 | Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Vortilons
 |
 |
 |
 | Wow ! So much discussion VG's Vortillons , Trailing edge fences.
I
 | must be nuts. I have about 150 Hours on my XL-RG I did the test
 | flying without anything. It flew great. I painted the airplane and
it
 | flew better. ( guess I just got better). I have looked at all the
 | stuff and am reluctant to make any changes because the wing just
 | looks good clean. The airplane gets a little sloppy below 100 knots
 | with the gear down. You have to use the rudders to lead the turn
and
 | the aileron inputs are very deliberate. The problem I have is I am
so
 | used to it everything feels OK. I plan to install the vortillons
and
 | see if that makes a big change and then put on some trailing edge
 | fences to see if that does anything. I would remove anything that
 | effects the top end. I would rather go fast.
 | The only other modification I would be looking to do would be to
get
 | some more heat in the airplane. On a trip back from Kentucky last
 | week I was really cold OAT -8C @&nbsp; FL 015 but the ground speed
was 260
 | KTS 285 in the decent.
 | Jack
 | N55XL
 | _______________________________________________
 | To change your email address, visit
 <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector">http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</a>
 |
 | Visit the gallery!&nbsp; www.tvbf.org/gallery
 | user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
 | Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
 | Check old archives: <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html">http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</a>
 |
 |
 |
 |
_______________________________________________
 To change your email address, visit <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector">http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</a>
Visit the gallery!&nbsp; www.tvbf.org/gallery
 user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
 Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
 Check old archives: <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html">http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</a></blockquote>

<p>--
<br>Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything
<br>Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
<br>Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
<br>&nbsp;</html>

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