REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS

Ronnie Brown reflector@tvbf.org
Fri, 2 Jan 2004 08:13:42 -0500


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Hi Andy,

Actually, the certified GPS receivers are only certified to do GPS =
approaches only.  You can't legally do a VOR, Localizer, or NDP approach =
using the GPS only.  You can do it if you have the appropriate equipment =
(NAV or ADF).  Real crock of stuff.  There was an article in the October =
2003 Plane and Pilot which contains the following statement:  (see =
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2003/oct/ifr_gps.html for the =
whole article).

"Since your GPS has essentially all approaches in its database, which of =
them can you shoot using the GPS receiver as your primary navigation =
source? The answer is whenever the word GPS is in the title of the =
approach. In that case, you don=92t need other navigation receivers =
(VOR, RNAV, ADF, DME) operational or installed. Of course, there may be =
other reasons why you need some of them. The General Requirements call =
for a VOR receiver for en-route operations if you=92re following airways =
and maybe a DME if the airway changes course at a DME fix".

There is an AC that says in certain conditions you can use the GPS for =
NDB locations and DME.  That is why I suggested a solution to this =
dilemma is to install a NAV receiver which gets you more legal =
functionality with your IFR certified GPS.

I was really appalled to see the what was Legal for a certified GPS.  =
Even though the NDB approaches are being phased out, the FAA doesn't =
want to concede that the GPS may be FAR MORE ACCURATE than the ADF =
receiver that is good at pointing your alternator or strobe lights.

One of these days the FAA Regulatory folks will talk to the ATC folks =
and realize the safety, usefulness and accuracy that pilots are finding =
with GPS.  The regulators have not caught up with reality yet.

Ronnie




----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Andy Millin=20
  To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
  Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:22 PM
  Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS


  I may be missing something here, but from what I understand, it would =
be perfectly legal to fly without a NAV receiver.  It is legal to shoot =
all VOR and NDB approaches using a GPS.  About the only thing you =
couldn't do would be an ILS, or localizer approach.  As long as you can =
locate the intersections, and a GPS is better at that than the NAV, then =
you are good to go.

  Andy
    -----Original Message-----
    From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
    Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 2:02 PM
    To: reflector@tvbf.org
    Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS


    The panel looks great Wayne. You have done a great job picking and =
choosing. =20

    The only thing I would add is some sort of VOR receiver/CDI so you =
can fly legal IFR.  I fly the east coast often, and there is enough ugly =
days to make light IFR a real asset, just getting out of a foggy =
airport, climbing to nice weather on top, a local IFR let down to =
descend through a solid layer where there is  1000-3000 foot ceilings.  =
And the TruTrack will make single pilot IFR much easier.

    Are you flying yet?  Sounds like you are close!

    Happy New Year and Happy Flying!

    Ronnie
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Wayne Lanza=20
      To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
      Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 10:50 AM
      Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS


      Happy New Year to ALL!!!

      Al Gietzen asks about the component / configuration details =
regarding
      my instrument panel, so here goes...

      I decided to use the Digifly fms100 EFIS systems along with the =
fms-AT
      (AHRS) and fms-ENG (engine data module). This combination affords
      me a fairly complete instrument compliment with some redundancy =
and
      a great deal of flexibility. The fms100 display has three primary =
display
      modes which can be selected on any screen at any time. This is =
possible
      because the engine and flight data come from their respective =
modules
      via a serial link that is fed to all displays. Each display has =
it's own CPU
      and does not rely on a big box somewhere in the airplane, this =
makes
      for some really simplified wiring. The three display modes are =
moving
      map (Jepp data base), PFD (primary flight display) and engine =
data.
      You can not split the screen but access to alternate pages is 1-2 =
key=20
      strokes away. There is an alarm function that will flash a red =
border to
      alert you of an out of bounds parameter, this function can also be =
used
      to flash an external annunciator if desired. To sum up the =
usefulness of
      the alarm, consider that you have a 1 or 2 screen system and are =
not=20
      looking at the engine page on either - an engine problem will =
flash the
      border on the current display, you can then goto the engine page =
or=20
      goto the menu and look at an alarm listing.
      I have decided to use two Garmin GPS16 WAAS receivers, one is =
shared
      between the two upper displays while #2 is devoted to the lower =
left screen.
      This gives me complete navigational redundancy. I can also select =
that either
      the upper or lower left screen be ported to the auto pilot.

      For radios and transponder I am using the Microair equipment. It =
is small
      affordable is well regarded by the avionics shop's that I have =
spoke to. I have
      reluctantly decided to forego the installation of a NAV radio. =
Most of our flying
      will be up and down the east coast, light IFR, and we have family =
all along the
      way. I will have to be mindful of not getting caught in the =
crap...

      Other than that I've installed a TruTrak 'Digitrak" A/P, Davtron =
chronometer,
      Flightcom 403 intercom and a CD player. The power panel is a one =
off of my
      design. The instrument panel was hand molded, trimmed in grey =
vinyl and
      varnished mahogany. The artwork is 10 mil thick Lexan overlay.

      There is a single Jeff Rose ignition installed on the IO360-C1C6, =
the 4 jugs
      have under 200hrs since Lycoming factory new - the rest of the =
engine is in
      excellent shape and has been professionally maintained. I've =
installed the new
      stainless forward exhaust, all new engine sensors, etc... While at =
it, I painted
      everything that I didn't have powder coated. There is a blower for =
fresh air -=20
      gets hot here... and I added a secondary power system for EFIS =
backup.=20

      When I bought this airplane, Duane Swing included all new landing =
gear,
      wheels, brakes, tires, interior and replacement of any other major =
defectives.
      We found 2 required AD's, oil pump and wrist pins. I 'started' =
this project by
      gutting the airframe to the 'glass and going anew from there - a =
lot of work!
      But I'd like to thank Duane & Scott for their support and a great =
deal on 81VA.
      If you get by the factory, stop by the builder's center and say =
hello.

      Best Regards,
      Wayne Lanza
      Composite Design, Inc.

      For more information on the Digifly please visit our web page at-
      http://www.CompositeDesignInc.com
      ______________________________________________________________

      On Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 08:34 PM, Al Gietzen wrote:


        ... Needless to say I built a new panel
        for my new toy and included the Fms systems in the effort. Find =
attached a
        small JPEG of my panel, if you would like more detail - just let =
me know.

         Cheers,
        Wayne

        Oh; I see =96 just a couple a little changesJ.
        Yeah; maybe you could list out the major items.

        Al


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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Andy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Actually, the certified&nbsp;GPS receivers are only =
certified=20
to do GPS approaches only.&nbsp; You can't legally&nbsp;do a VOR, =
Localizer, or=20
NDP approach using the GPS only.&nbsp; You can do it if you have the =
appropriate=20
equipment (NAV or ADF).&nbsp; Real crock of stuff.&nbsp; There was an =
article in=20
the October 2003&nbsp;Plane and Pilot&nbsp;which contains the following=20
statement:&nbsp; (see <A=20
href=3D"http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2003/oct/ifr_gps.html">ht=
tp://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2003/oct/ifr_gps.html</A>&nbsp;for =

the whole article).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>Since your GPS has =
essentially all=20
approaches in its database, which of them can you shoot using the GPS =
receiver=20
as your primary navigation source? The answer is whenever the word GPS =
is in the=20
title of the approach. In that case, you don=92t need other navigation =
receivers=20
(VOR, RNAV, ADF, DME) operational or installed. Of course, there may be =
other=20
reasons why you need some of them. The General Requirements call for a =
VOR=20
receiver for en-route operations if you=92re following airways and maybe =
a DME if=20
the airway changes course at a DME fix".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There is an AC that says in certain conditions you =
can use the=20
GPS for NDB locations and DME.&nbsp; That is why I suggested a solution =
to this=20
dilemma is to install a NAV receiver which gets you more legal =
functionality=20
with your IFR certified GPS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was really appalled to see the what was Legal for =
a=20
certified GPS.&nbsp; Even though the NDB approaches are being phased =
out, the=20
FAA doesn't want to concede that the GPS may be FAR MORE ACCURATE than =
the ADF=20
receiver that is good at pointing your alternator or strobe =
lights.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>One of these days the FAA&nbsp;Regulatory folks will =
talk to=20
the ATC folks and realize the safety, usefulness and accuracy that =
pilots are=20
finding with GPS.&nbsp; The regulators have not caught up with reality=20
yet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Damillin@sbcglobal.net =
href=3D"mailto:amillin@sbcglobal.net">Andy=20
  Millin</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, =
2004 11:22=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Digifly =
EFIS</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D940241904-02012004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I=20
  may be missing something here, but from what I understand, it would be =

  perfectly legal to fly without a NAV receiver.&nbsp; It is legal to =
shoot all=20
  VOR and NDB approaches using a GPS.&nbsp; About the only thing you =
couldn't do=20
  would be an ILS, or localizer approach.&nbsp; As long as you can =
locate the=20
  intersections, and a GPS is better at that than the NAV, then you are =
good to=20
  go.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D940241904-02012004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D940241904-02012004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
    [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie=20
    Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, 2004 2:02 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
    reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:Digifly=20
    EFIS<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The panel looks great Wayne. You have done a =
great job=20
    picking and choosing.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The only thing I would add is some sort of VOR=20
    receiver/CDI so you can fly legal IFR.&nbsp; I fly the east coast =
often, and=20
    there is enough ugly days to make light IFR a real asset, just =
getting out=20
    of a foggy airport, climbing to nice weather on top, a local IFR let =
down to=20
    descend through a solid layer where there is&nbsp; 1000-3000 foot=20
    ceilings.&nbsp; And the TruTrack will make single pilot IFR much=20
    easier.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Are you flying yet?&nbsp; Sounds like you are=20
    close!</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Happy New Year and Happy Flying!</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3Dwlanza@bellsouth.net =
href=3D"mailto:wlanza@bellsouth.net">Wayne=20
      Lanza</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
      href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, =
2004=20
      10:50 AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
REFLECTOR:Digifly=20
      EFIS</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>Happy New Year to ALL!!!<BR><BR>Al Gietzen asks =
about the=20
      component / configuration details regarding<BR>my instrument =
panel, so=20
      here goes...<BR><BR>I decided to use the Digifly fms100 EFIS =
systems along=20
      with the fms-AT<BR>(AHRS) and fms-ENG (engine data module). This=20
      combination affords<BR>me a fairly complete instrument compliment =
with=20
      some redundancy and<BR>a great deal of flexibility. The fms100 =
display has=20
      three primary display<BR>modes which can be selected on any screen =
at any=20
      time. This is possible<BR>because the engine and flight data come =
from=20
      their respective modules<BR>via a serial link that is fed to all =
displays.=20
      Each display has it's own CPU<BR>and does not rely on a big box =
somewhere=20
      in the airplane, this makes<BR>for some really simplified wiring. =
The=20
      three display modes are moving<BR>map (Jepp data base), PFD =
(primary=20
      flight display) and engine data.<BR>You can not split the screen =
but=20
      access to alternate pages is 1-2 key <BR>strokes away. There is an =
alarm=20
      function that will flash a red border to<BR>alert you of an out of =
bounds=20
      parameter, this function can also be used<BR>to flash an external=20
      annunciator if desired. To sum up the usefulness of<BR>the alarm, =
consider=20
      that you have a 1 or 2 screen system and are not <BR>looking at =
the engine=20
      page on either - an engine problem will flash the<BR>border on the =
current=20
      display, you can then goto the engine page or <BR>goto the menu =
and look=20
      at an alarm listing.<BR>I have decided to use two Garmin GPS16 =
WAAS=20
      receivers, one is shared<BR>between the two upper displays while =
#2 is=20
      devoted to the lower left screen.<BR>This gives me complete =
navigational=20
      redundancy. I can also select that either<BR>the upper or lower =
left=20
      screen be ported to the auto pilot.<BR><BR>For radios and =
transponder I am=20
      using the Microair equipment. It is small<BR>affordable is well =
regarded=20
      by the avionics shop's that I have spoke to. I have<BR>reluctantly =
decided=20
      to forego the installation of a NAV radio. Most of our =
flying<BR>will be=20
      up and down the east coast, light IFR, and we have family all =
along=20
      the<BR>way. I will have to be mindful of not getting caught in the =

      crap...<BR><BR>Other than that I've installed a TruTrak 'Digitrak" =
A/P,=20
      Davtron chronometer,<BR>Flightcom 403 intercom and a CD player. =
The power=20
      panel is a one off of my<BR>design. The instrument panel was hand =
molded,=20
      trimmed in grey vinyl and<BR>varnished mahogany. The artwork is 10 =
mil=20
      thick Lexan overlay.<BR><BR>There is a single Jeff Rose ignition =
installed=20
      on the IO360-C1C6, the 4 jugs<BR>have under 200hrs since Lycoming =
factory=20
      new - the rest of the engine is in<BR>excellent shape and has been =

      professionally maintained. I've installed the new<BR>stainless =
forward=20
      exhaust, all new engine sensors, etc... While at it, I=20
      painted<BR>everything that I didn't have powder coated. There is a =
blower=20
      for fresh air - <BR>gets hot here... and I added a secondary power =
system=20
      for EFIS backup. <BR><BR>When I bought this airplane, Duane Swing =
included=20
      all new landing gear,<BR>wheels, brakes, tires, interior and =
replacement=20
      of any other major defectives.<BR>We found 2 required AD's, oil =
pump and=20
      wrist pins. I 'started' this project by<BR>gutting the airframe to =
the=20
      'glass and going anew from there - a lot of work!<BR>But I'd like =
to thank=20
      Duane &amp; Scott for their support and a great deal on =
81VA.<BR>If you=20
      get by the factory, stop by the builder's center and say=20
      hello.<BR><BR>Best Regards,<BR>Wayne Lanza<BR>Composite Design,=20
      Inc.<BR><BR>For more information on the Digifly please visit our =
web page=20
      =
at-<BR>http://www.CompositeDesignInc.com<BR>_____________________________=
_________________________________<BR><BR>On=20
      Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 08:34 PM, Al Gietzen =
wrote:<BR><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE><?smaller>... Needless to say I built a new<?/smaller> =
<?smaller>panel<?/smaller><BR><?smaller>for my new toy and included the=20
        Fms systems in the effort. Find<?/smaller> <?smaller>attached =
a<?/smaller><BR><?smaller>small JPEG of my panel, if you would like more =

        detail - just let me<?/smaller> =
<?smaller>know.<?/smaller><BR><BR><?smaller>&nbsp;Cheers,<?/smaller><BR><=
?smaller>Wayne<?/smaller><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param 0000,0000,0000><?smaller>Oh;=20
        I see =96 just a couple a little =
changes<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><?color><?param =
0000,0000,0000>J<?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana>.<?/fontfamily><?/color><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param 0000,0000,0000><?smaller>Yeah;=20
        maybe you could list out the major =
items.<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param =
0000,0000,0000><?smaller>Al<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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