REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS
Ronnie Brown
reflector@tvbf.org
Fri, 2 Jan 2004 08:13:42 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Hi Andy,
Actually, the certified GPS receivers are only certified to do GPS =
approaches only. You can't legally do a VOR, Localizer, or NDP approach =
using the GPS only. You can do it if you have the appropriate equipment =
(NAV or ADF). Real crock of stuff. There was an article in the October =
2003 Plane and Pilot which contains the following statement: (see =
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2003/oct/ifr_gps.html for the =
whole article).
"Since your GPS has essentially all approaches in its database, which of =
them can you shoot using the GPS receiver as your primary navigation =
source? The answer is whenever the word GPS is in the title of the =
approach. In that case, you don=92t need other navigation receivers =
(VOR, RNAV, ADF, DME) operational or installed. Of course, there may be =
other reasons why you need some of them. The General Requirements call =
for a VOR receiver for en-route operations if you=92re following airways =
and maybe a DME if the airway changes course at a DME fix".
There is an AC that says in certain conditions you can use the GPS for =
NDB locations and DME. That is why I suggested a solution to this =
dilemma is to install a NAV receiver which gets you more legal =
functionality with your IFR certified GPS.
I was really appalled to see the what was Legal for a certified GPS. =
Even though the NDB approaches are being phased out, the FAA doesn't =
want to concede that the GPS may be FAR MORE ACCURATE than the ADF =
receiver that is good at pointing your alternator or strobe lights.
One of these days the FAA Regulatory folks will talk to the ATC folks =
and realize the safety, usefulness and accuracy that pilots are finding =
with GPS. The regulators have not caught up with reality yet.
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Andy Millin=20
To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS
I may be missing something here, but from what I understand, it would =
be perfectly legal to fly without a NAV receiver. It is legal to shoot =
all VOR and NDB approaches using a GPS. About the only thing you =
couldn't do would be an ILS, or localizer approach. As long as you can =
locate the intersections, and a GPS is better at that than the NAV, then =
you are good to go.
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 2:02 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS
The panel looks great Wayne. You have done a great job picking and =
choosing. =20
The only thing I would add is some sort of VOR receiver/CDI so you =
can fly legal IFR. I fly the east coast often, and there is enough ugly =
days to make light IFR a real asset, just getting out of a foggy =
airport, climbing to nice weather on top, a local IFR let down to =
descend through a solid layer where there is 1000-3000 foot ceilings. =
And the TruTrack will make single pilot IFR much easier.
Are you flying yet? Sounds like you are close!
Happy New Year and Happy Flying!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Wayne Lanza=20
To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Digifly EFIS
Happy New Year to ALL!!!
Al Gietzen asks about the component / configuration details =
regarding
my instrument panel, so here goes...
I decided to use the Digifly fms100 EFIS systems along with the =
fms-AT
(AHRS) and fms-ENG (engine data module). This combination affords
me a fairly complete instrument compliment with some redundancy =
and
a great deal of flexibility. The fms100 display has three primary =
display
modes which can be selected on any screen at any time. This is =
possible
because the engine and flight data come from their respective =
modules
via a serial link that is fed to all displays. Each display has =
it's own CPU
and does not rely on a big box somewhere in the airplane, this =
makes
for some really simplified wiring. The three display modes are =
moving
map (Jepp data base), PFD (primary flight display) and engine =
data.
You can not split the screen but access to alternate pages is 1-2 =
key=20
strokes away. There is an alarm function that will flash a red =
border to
alert you of an out of bounds parameter, this function can also be =
used
to flash an external annunciator if desired. To sum up the =
usefulness of
the alarm, consider that you have a 1 or 2 screen system and are =
not=20
looking at the engine page on either - an engine problem will =
flash the
border on the current display, you can then goto the engine page =
or=20
goto the menu and look at an alarm listing.
I have decided to use two Garmin GPS16 WAAS receivers, one is =
shared
between the two upper displays while #2 is devoted to the lower =
left screen.
This gives me complete navigational redundancy. I can also select =
that either
the upper or lower left screen be ported to the auto pilot.
For radios and transponder I am using the Microair equipment. It =
is small
affordable is well regarded by the avionics shop's that I have =
spoke to. I have
reluctantly decided to forego the installation of a NAV radio. =
Most of our flying
will be up and down the east coast, light IFR, and we have family =
all along the
way. I will have to be mindful of not getting caught in the =
crap...
Other than that I've installed a TruTrak 'Digitrak" A/P, Davtron =
chronometer,
Flightcom 403 intercom and a CD player. The power panel is a one =
off of my
design. The instrument panel was hand molded, trimmed in grey =
vinyl and
varnished mahogany. The artwork is 10 mil thick Lexan overlay.
There is a single Jeff Rose ignition installed on the IO360-C1C6, =
the 4 jugs
have under 200hrs since Lycoming factory new - the rest of the =
engine is in
excellent shape and has been professionally maintained. I've =
installed the new
stainless forward exhaust, all new engine sensors, etc... While at =
it, I painted
everything that I didn't have powder coated. There is a blower for =
fresh air -=20
gets hot here... and I added a secondary power system for EFIS =
backup.=20
When I bought this airplane, Duane Swing included all new landing =
gear,
wheels, brakes, tires, interior and replacement of any other major =
defectives.
We found 2 required AD's, oil pump and wrist pins. I 'started' =
this project by
gutting the airframe to the 'glass and going anew from there - a =
lot of work!
But I'd like to thank Duane & Scott for their support and a great =
deal on 81VA.
If you get by the factory, stop by the builder's center and say =
hello.
Best Regards,
Wayne Lanza
Composite Design, Inc.
For more information on the Digifly please visit our web page at-
http://www.CompositeDesignInc.com
______________________________________________________________
On Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 08:34 PM, Al Gietzen wrote:
... Needless to say I built a new panel
for my new toy and included the Fms systems in the effort. Find =
attached a
small JPEG of my panel, if you would like more detail - just let =
me know.
Cheers,
Wayne
Oh; I see =96 just a couple a little changesJ.
Yeah; maybe you could list out the major items.
Al
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi Andy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Actually, the certified GPS receivers are only =
certified=20
to do GPS approaches only. You can't legally do a VOR, =
Localizer, or=20
NDP approach using the GPS only. You can do it if you have the =
appropriate=20
equipment (NAV or ADF). Real crock of stuff. There was an =
article in=20
the October 2003 Plane and Pilot which contains the following=20
statement: (see <A=20
href=3D"http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2003/oct/ifr_gps.html">ht=
tp://www.planeandpilotmag.com/content/2003/oct/ifr_gps.html</A> for =
the whole article).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"</FONT><FONT size=3D3>Since your GPS has =
essentially all=20
approaches in its database, which of them can you shoot using the GPS =
receiver=20
as your primary navigation source? The answer is whenever the word GPS =
is in the=20
title of the approach. In that case, you don=92t need other navigation =
receivers=20
(VOR, RNAV, ADF, DME) operational or installed. Of course, there may be =
other=20
reasons why you need some of them. The General Requirements call for a =
VOR=20
receiver for en-route operations if you=92re following airways and maybe =
a DME if=20
the airway changes course at a DME fix".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There is an AC that says in certain conditions you =
can use the=20
GPS for NDB locations and DME. That is why I suggested a solution =
to this=20
dilemma is to install a NAV receiver which gets you more legal =
functionality=20
with your IFR certified GPS.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was really appalled to see the what was Legal for =
a=20
certified GPS. Even though the NDB approaches are being phased =
out, the=20
FAA doesn't want to concede that the GPS may be FAR MORE ACCURATE than =
the ADF=20
receiver that is good at pointing your alternator or strobe =
lights.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>One of these days the FAA Regulatory folks will =
talk to=20
the ATC folks and realize the safety, usefulness and accuracy that =
pilots are=20
finding with GPS. The regulators have not caught up with reality=20
yet.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Damillin@sbcglobal.net =
href=3D"mailto:amillin@sbcglobal.net">Andy=20
Millin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, =
2004 11:22=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Digifly =
EFIS</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D940241904-02012004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I=20
may be missing something here, but from what I understand, it would be =
perfectly legal to fly without a NAV receiver. It is legal to =
shoot all=20
VOR and NDB approaches using a GPS. About the only thing you =
couldn't do=20
would be an ILS, or localizer approach. As long as you can =
locate the=20
intersections, and a GPS is better at that than the NAV, then you are =
good to=20
go.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D940241904-02012004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D940241904-02012004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie=20
Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, 2004 2:02 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:Digifly=20
EFIS<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The panel looks great Wayne. You have done a =
great job=20
picking and choosing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The only thing I would add is some sort of VOR=20
receiver/CDI so you can fly legal IFR. I fly the east coast =
often, and=20
there is enough ugly days to make light IFR a real asset, just =
getting out=20
of a foggy airport, climbing to nice weather on top, a local IFR let =
down to=20
descend through a solid layer where there is 1000-3000 foot=20
ceilings. And the TruTrack will make single pilot IFR much=20
easier.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Are you flying yet? Sounds like you are=20
close!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Happy New Year and Happy Flying!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dwlanza@bellsouth.net =
href=3D"mailto:wlanza@bellsouth.net">Wayne=20
Lanza</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 01, =
2004=20
10:50 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
REFLECTOR:Digifly=20
EFIS</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Happy New Year to ALL!!!<BR><BR>Al Gietzen asks =
about the=20
component / configuration details regarding<BR>my instrument =
panel, so=20
here goes...<BR><BR>I decided to use the Digifly fms100 EFIS =
systems along=20
with the fms-AT<BR>(AHRS) and fms-ENG (engine data module). This=20
combination affords<BR>me a fairly complete instrument compliment =
with=20
some redundancy and<BR>a great deal of flexibility. The fms100 =
display has=20
three primary display<BR>modes which can be selected on any screen =
at any=20
time. This is possible<BR>because the engine and flight data come =
from=20
their respective modules<BR>via a serial link that is fed to all =
displays.=20
Each display has it's own CPU<BR>and does not rely on a big box =
somewhere=20
in the airplane, this makes<BR>for some really simplified wiring. =
The=20
three display modes are moving<BR>map (Jepp data base), PFD =
(primary=20
flight display) and engine data.<BR>You can not split the screen =
but=20
access to alternate pages is 1-2 key <BR>strokes away. There is an =
alarm=20
function that will flash a red border to<BR>alert you of an out of =
bounds=20
parameter, this function can also be used<BR>to flash an external=20
annunciator if desired. To sum up the usefulness of<BR>the alarm, =
consider=20
that you have a 1 or 2 screen system and are not <BR>looking at =
the engine=20
page on either - an engine problem will flash the<BR>border on the =
current=20
display, you can then goto the engine page or <BR>goto the menu =
and look=20
at an alarm listing.<BR>I have decided to use two Garmin GPS16 =
WAAS=20
receivers, one is shared<BR>between the two upper displays while =
#2 is=20
devoted to the lower left screen.<BR>This gives me complete =
navigational=20
redundancy. I can also select that either<BR>the upper or lower =
left=20
screen be ported to the auto pilot.<BR><BR>For radios and =
transponder I am=20
using the Microair equipment. It is small<BR>affordable is well =
regarded=20
by the avionics shop's that I have spoke to. I have<BR>reluctantly =
decided=20
to forego the installation of a NAV radio. Most of our =
flying<BR>will be=20
up and down the east coast, light IFR, and we have family all =
along=20
the<BR>way. I will have to be mindful of not getting caught in the =
crap...<BR><BR>Other than that I've installed a TruTrak 'Digitrak" =
A/P,=20
Davtron chronometer,<BR>Flightcom 403 intercom and a CD player. =
The power=20
panel is a one off of my<BR>design. The instrument panel was hand =
molded,=20
trimmed in grey vinyl and<BR>varnished mahogany. The artwork is 10 =
mil=20
thick Lexan overlay.<BR><BR>There is a single Jeff Rose ignition =
installed=20
on the IO360-C1C6, the 4 jugs<BR>have under 200hrs since Lycoming =
factory=20
new - the rest of the engine is in<BR>excellent shape and has been =
professionally maintained. I've installed the new<BR>stainless =
forward=20
exhaust, all new engine sensors, etc... While at it, I=20
painted<BR>everything that I didn't have powder coated. There is a =
blower=20
for fresh air - <BR>gets hot here... and I added a secondary power =
system=20
for EFIS backup. <BR><BR>When I bought this airplane, Duane Swing =
included=20
all new landing gear,<BR>wheels, brakes, tires, interior and =
replacement=20
of any other major defectives.<BR>We found 2 required AD's, oil =
pump and=20
wrist pins. I 'started' this project by<BR>gutting the airframe to =
the=20
'glass and going anew from there - a lot of work!<BR>But I'd like =
to thank=20
Duane & Scott for their support and a great deal on =
81VA.<BR>If you=20
get by the factory, stop by the builder's center and say=20
hello.<BR><BR>Best Regards,<BR>Wayne Lanza<BR>Composite Design,=20
Inc.<BR><BR>For more information on the Digifly please visit our =
web page=20
=
at-<BR>http://www.CompositeDesignInc.com<BR>_____________________________=
_________________________________<BR><BR>On=20
Wednesday, December 31, 2003, at 08:34 PM, Al Gietzen =
wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><?smaller>... Needless to say I built a new<?/smaller> =
<?smaller>panel<?/smaller><BR><?smaller>for my new toy and included the=20
Fms systems in the effort. Find<?/smaller> <?smaller>attached =
a<?/smaller><BR><?smaller>small JPEG of my panel, if you would like more =
detail - just let me<?/smaller> =
<?smaller>know.<?/smaller><BR><BR><?smaller> Cheers,<?/smaller><BR><=
?smaller>Wayne<?/smaller><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param 0000,0000,0000><?smaller>Oh;=20
I see =96 just a couple a little =
changes<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><?color><?param =
0000,0000,0000>J<?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana>.<?/fontfamily><?/color><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param 0000,0000,0000><?smaller>Yeah;=20
maybe you could list out the major =
items.<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param =
Verdana><?color><?param =
0000,0000,0000><?smaller>Al<?/smaller><?/color><?/fontfamily><BR></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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