REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids Engine Monitor

Chuck Jensen cjensen at dts9000.com
Sat Aug 28 10:30:57 CDT 2004


I wish my XL were a little more 'ultra light'.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 10:19 AM
To: Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids Engine Monitor


The Rotax is a 912 in a Europa.

The other 5:
RV6 - IO320 Lycoming
RV6A - Carbureted  O320
Velox - 300 HP IO 540
Pitts - 300 HP IO 540
Velocity - 200 HP IO 360

And Chuck's XL with IO540

Not hardly ultralights.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids Engine Monitor


| Actually Ronnie nowhere in your email below did you disagree.  It seemed
| more like you supported my claim that the GRT in its current configuration
| is designed more for the ultralight crowd.  Used on Rotax's??  How many  4
| place experimental are using that engine?  How many real 2 place enclosed
| are ?  not many..
|
| I agree  the lower cost compared to Vision is very enticing, that was what
| peaked my initial interest.
|
| I don't have a CS prop, and I think MAP is still needed.  Just like I
think
| full egt/cht are needed.  MAP is a great indication of engine health, very
| usefull.
|
| TIT is an EGT like measurement, very critical in a turbo installation.
The
| whole point of an engine monitor is to consolidate the information in a
| well organized and similar display for quick interpretation.   One of the
| most useful features of a "good" EIS is aural and/or visual alerts of out
| of bounds condition, the Vision and the GRT offer this.  If I have to
| install  individual gauges outside the EIS because the IES is inadequate
to
| the task, the EIS has failed in its purpose. Installing separate gauges
for
| TIT or fuel flow or what ever tells me I need to go somewhere else for an
| engine monitor.
|
| As far as AMPS being useless,  how wrong can you be. Volts/Amps is like
| Fuel pressure/fuel flow or Oil pressure/oil temp.  individually they only
| tell you  part of the picture, together they tell you more than the sum of
| their parts.  Why not say you don''t need oil temp?   If the oil
pressure's
| good the temp must be OK right?
|
| I think the GRT is a fine instrument, but in its current configuration it
| "seems" to have the ultralight mentality in many ways.
|
| Justify carb heat temp as a standard gauge!!!!  1950's type thinking.  How
| many V's or Longs', or Cozy's or  RV's are installing injected engines vs.
| carburated?
|
| Airspeed on my engine monitor?? How useless is that unless you flying an
| ultralight with limited instrumentation.  Another  ultralight mentality
| designed in.
|
| I think GRT is on the right track, I'm just not sure they are ready for a
6
| cylinder big bore engine...  I there answer to my inquiry confirms they
are
| still think little plane, little engine.
|
| Scott
|
| At 07:17 AM 8/28/2004, you wrote:
| >I disagree with your assessment of GRT.
| >
| >They may have started out as being focused on the ultralight crowd, but
| >their EIS has evolved into a mighty fine engine monitoring instrument.  I
| >have half a dozen friends flying with the EIS on Lycomings and Rotaxes
and I
| >have one on my Lycoming/Velocity. One even got rid of his Vision (talking
| >about inflexible!!!) and installed a GRT.  Less room, lower cost and does
| >the engine monitoring function much better and they are very reliable.
| >
| >Not everybody has a constant speed prop so they don't need the MAP like
you
| >do.  And very few homebuilts are running turbo charger so why should GRT
| >include that.  If TIT is that important, you could put a dedicated
display
| >on it and vacuum too.  Or move one of your EGT's.  By the way, what is
the
| >difference between TIT and EGT?
| >
| >I don't know of anyone running GRT's color graphic display, but if GRT
does
| >their normally fine job, the graphic and EFIS will be excellent additions
to
| >the EIS line.
| >
| >Some suggestions - forget the AMPS - doesn't tell you anything about the
| >health of the charging system that the voltmeter won't tell you.  Less
than
| >13.2 and the alternator isn't charging.  More than 14.8 and the regulator
| >isn't working.  Anything in between is fine.
| >
| >Re the fuel level, you could wire the two fuel levels into one switch and
| >feed that to the GRT if you run out of Aux inputs.  There are 4 aux
inputs -
| >two are used for MAP and Fuel Pressure.  That leaves 2. Fuel flow is an
| >option but doesn't use the aux inputs.
| >
| >I used the Water temp input to monitor the exhaust air out of the Cowl.
My
| >Velocity runs about 160 degrees.  I set the alarm at 200.
| >
| >In closing, I do have a high opinion of Grand Rapids Tech.  They have
been
| >around a long time and they have sold a BUNCH of EIS systems and support
is
| >fantastic.
| >
| >Ronnie Brown
| >
| >
| >----- Original Message -----
| >From: "Scott Derrick" <scott at tnstaafl.net>
| >To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>;
| ><reflector at tvbf.org>
| >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:05 AM
| >Subject: REFLECTOR: Grand Rapids Engine Monitor
| >
| >
| >| I was seriously considering swapping my 4 cylinder Vision for GRT's 6
cyl
| >| graphical Engine monitor.  I looked over the specs and realized the aux
| >| inputs were limited and the standard ones were wasted and not
changeable
| >| items like Carb temp and OAT.
| >|
| >| I asked their tech support about how I could make it work  with my
| >| instrumentation needs.  They replied that I would just have to do
without
| >| TIT or some of the other items. Are they serious? They considered them
not
| >| really needed like fuel flow or manifold pressure???  While I haven't
| >| completely crossed them off my list of possible's I think their product
is
| >| definitely oriented towards the ultralight  and wheenie simple engine
| >market...
| >|
| >| Why would they force me to display Carb heat when most new engines are
| >| injected? OAT is nice but way down on my list for an engine monitor.
| >|
| >| here was my request.
| >|
| >|  > I'm in the process of upgrading to a TSIO520 and will need to
replace
| >the
| >|  > engine monitor I have now.
| >|  >
| >|  > I like the 6000 combined with the graphical display.
| >|  >
| >|  > However I can't see how I can display everything I need.
| >|  >
| >|  > Here's your built in functions
| >|  > 6  Exhaust Gas Temperatures
| >|  > 6 Cylinder Head Temperatures
| >|  > Tachometer
| >|  > Oil Temperature
| >|  > Oil Pressure
| >|  > Outside Air Temperature( I have one of these already, can it be used
| >for
| >| something else?)
| >|  > Voltmeter
| >|  > Carburetor Temperature  ( I won't need this, can I use it for
something
| >|  > else like TIT?)
| >|  >
| >|  >
| >|  > Heres what I need to add ( 8 items)
| >|  > Manifold Pressure ( I'm surprised this isn't in the built in
functions)
| >|  > Fuel Pressure(same with this one)
| >|  > Fuel Flow( and this one two)
| >|  > 2 Fuel Level  Gages(using capacitive sending units)
| >|  > Tubine Inlet Temp (TIT)
| >|  > Ammeter(this should be standard)
| >|  > Vacuum
| >|
| >| "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
| >| - Benjamin Franklin
| >|
| >|
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| >
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|
|
| "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
| - Benjamin Franklin
|
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