REFLECTOR: RE: Crossflow Aero delays

[Alex Balic]

Dear Doug,

Yes, Crossflow is PAINFULLY, PAINFULLY, PAINFULLY slow at delivering stuff-
I know this first hand- it is maddening, it is frustrating it makes you want
to go there and do the work yourself- or punch one of them, or punch them
while you work on your stuff- I have been dealing with them for about 3
years- and all what has been said about them in the last post is true- but
all I can say is that their engines, sub assemblies, parts and engineering
are first rate and believe it or not, ( in my opinion), worth the long
wait...... those guys create art in everything that leaves the door- I
received a (horribly expensive) engine mount for my SVX- and it is
beautiful- all welds are absolutely perfect, fit-up is perfect, paint is
perfect, the prop flange is perfectly placed to the face of the cowl- so how
much can I yell- a little bit I suppose, but when the dust settles and you
eventually get your stuff, you will be pleased with it- I built my own
motor, so I have been getting only sub assemblies from them, but everything
eventually got to me, and it is all great stuff.   I even offered to be an
official US contact point for them if it would help get things out the door,
but Jorge is confident that they will get their situation on order- Part of
what it is I think is the whole Canadian attitude towards time schedules and
40 hour work weeks (neither exist north of the border apparently) and I have
noticed that they seem to have at least 3 holidays each month too- Canada
will never dominate the world, or North America for that matter, but
Crossflow makes good parts, and they know that Subaru motor like nobodies
business- The method that worked for me was to pound away at them with daily
or hourly phone calls- it worked for me eventually- really you should not
have to do this, yes this is true I know- but try it for about 2 weeks- call
at least 2 times each day or 3 or 4 if you have the time, they will send
your stuff just to keep you from bothering them so much.......it is the
Canadian way....

Alex

 -----Original Message-----
From: reflector-bounces at tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-bounces at tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of DOHAYES at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 11:16 AM
To: reflector at tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR: Crossflow Aero Engine Debacle


  Dear Reflectorites -

  I noticed that Crossflow Aero has been advertising in Sport Aviation with
increasingly larger and more prominent page space, which is nice, because it
means they are at least pretending to be in business. Has anyone out there
ever ordered and received an engine from them, or even know anyone who has?
Did anyone see their booth at Oshkosh? Do they even have an engine to show,
much less to sell? Are there any Canadians out there, who live near Toronto,
who know a way to put pressure on them? I ordered my engine in October of
2001. Has anyone else had to wait three years for an engine?

  As some of you may remember, I brought this up a few months ago, and have
so far only received numerous promises that it will be shipped in two weeks.
When nothing shows up, I call and am very calmly given another date, with no
mention of what happened to the last one. I tried the firm approach, but it
only got me shock and dismay at my rude and offensive behavior for a
response. My current patient approach doesn't seem to be working either, so
I need to try something else.

  I'd appreciate any help or advice anyone can provide in this matter. I'm
thinking of sending portions of this letter to Sport Aviation's advertising
department, in case Crossflow is in fact only in the business of taking
money. They can hardly be expected to make any guarantees about their
advertisers, but I think they'd like to know if something bad was happening.
I suppose Crossflow could be experiencing backlogs or technical
difficulties, but repeatedly making promises they can't keep is hardly the
way to handle that.

  For those who are interested, here is a little more background: The engine
was supposed to be delivered six months after placing the order, but there
was nothing in the contract to that effect, so that's really only a starting
point. They asked for the second payment in February of 2002, so at that
point everything seemed to be on track. Around that time, my painter
completely ruined my Velocity, abandoned half of it in a hangar two hundred
miles away, and left town. As I had no use for an engine while I was sanding
off paint, I didn't put any pressure on Crossflow when I didn't hear from
them during the rest of 2002. Once, I called to make sure they were still in
business and some tech told me that they had lost their reduction unit
provider and were building their own. As that seemed reasonable, I forgave
them for the delay, but not for the fact that they didn't bother to tell me.
In the later part of 2003, my next painter seemed to be closing in on fixing
the mess the first one had made, so I called Crossflow to check on the
status of my engine. No one who knew anything was there, but Jorge called
back and expressed his surprise that I had been waiting for so long without
any explanation, apologized, and promised that my engine would be shipped in
two weeks. A month or so later, Anna, who had taken my initial order, told
me that Jorge was wrong, but that they would have my engine ready in two
weeks. She is very pleasant, and we discussed what had happened up to that
point, including the fact that other than not being told what was going on,
I wasn't particularly upset about not having my engine, due to problems with
painters. A couple of months later, after several more two week delivery
dates came and went, I tried my firm approach, attacking their completely
lack of communication with their customers and inability to live up to
numerous promises on delivery dates, in a letter even longer than this one.
Anna was shocked and dismayed, called my statements appalling, slanderous,
and untrue, and said she couldn't believe I would say such things
considering the pleasant and professional relationship we had built up over
the years. When she calmed down, her only explanation was that she thought I
didn't want my engine until my painter was finished and that she was waiting
for me to let her know when I was ready. Seeing that I would get nowhere
being firm, I told her I was ready, and she asked for the final payment in
April of 2004. According to the contract, the final payment is to be made
when the engine is ready for shipment. Once she had the payment she told me
they would ship my engine in two weeks. She has said the same thing many
times since April, and still no engine. The last promised shipment date was
in July, but she added that they were getting ready for Oshkosh and that
they were waiting for Velocity to provide them with some dimensions. I
realized then that she was lying about the delivery date, and decided to
come up with a new plan before calling her again. Obviously, I have made
several mistakes in dealing with them, including: admitting I didn't mind
the initial delay, trusting them, and sending the final payment without some
kind of guarantee that they were actually going to send me an engine in
return. But these are hardly mistakes that harm Crossflow, so I don't know
what they could blame me for, other than causing a misunderstanding or two.

  To anyone who has made it this far: any suggestions?

  Doug Hayes
  Velocity 173FG (in limbo)
  Boulder, CO
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