REFLECTOR: Crossflow Aero Engine Debacle

Thu Aug 26 13:24:21 CDT 2004

I know the following is not the same as getting your own engine delivered:

However, a friend of mine does actually have his Crossflow engine but it took a long time to receive it.  I mentioned your plight an he nodded, yes he too had a lot of problems getting his engine.  He received his engine after Oshkosh 2003.  

He is now ready to fly but the engine is stumbling badly at 4000 rpm and will not make full rpm.  Crossflow came down (to NC) once and a Ivo prop pitch problem - went to full pitch - prevented finishing the "tuning".

Crossflow was supposed to be here again this past Monday.  Now he says he will be here on Saturday - he has a flight number now.  

My friend is still having cooling problems.  The Fire Wall Forward kit built and supplied for his Lancair 320 didn't have a radiator that would fit in his cowl. It was a large radiator that was hung below the oil pan but hardly able to fit in the cowl.  So he had to order two new radiators similar to the Eggenfeller radiators.  But still running hot.  The airplane is ready to fly except for the engine problems.  Hopefully he can make some better progress soon.

Perhaps this note will help you somewhat - at least one builder has received an engine.  

I'd suggest MORE pressure.  Get a date and go get your engine.  If you can't get immediate satisfaction, I'd start a letter writing campaign.  Since he is running ads again, he must need more money via deposits.  Drying up his source of income should put enough pressure on him to get your engine delivered - IF he has enough funds to get your engine together and delivered.

As a closing comment - this engine is not an inexpensive auto engine alternative.  The cost of the FWF package rivals the more expensive traditional engines.  And from my observation, few of the alternative engines have demonstrated that they are a good alternative in terms of reliability, lower operating costs and 2000 hour TBOs.  And by the way, I seriously contemplated a Chevy V-6 or V-8 for my Velocity - then decided I really wanted to go flying, so I purchased one of Don George's Lycomings.  After 150 hours and 1.5 years of flying, I'm very happy with my decision.  Any body considering an auto engine needs to purchase Tim England's video on his experiences using a Chevy V6 BEFORE making a decision.  

Ronnie Brown

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: DOHAYES at aol.com 
  To: reflector at tvbf.org 
  Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 1:15 PM
  Subject: REFLECTOR: Crossflow Aero Engine Debacle

  Dear Reflectorites -

  I noticed that Crossflow Aero has been advertising in Sport Aviation with increasingly larger and more prominent page space, which is nice, because it means they are at least pretending to be in business. Has anyone out there ever ordered and received an engine from them, or even know anyone who has? Did anyone see their booth at Oshkosh? Do they even have an engine to show, much less to sell? Are there any Canadians out there, who live near Toronto, who know a way to put pressure on them? I ordered my engine in October of 2001. Has anyone else had to wait three years for an engine?

  As some of you may remember, I brought this up a few months ago, and have so far only received numerous promises that it will be shipped in two weeks. When nothing shows up, I call and am very calmly given another date, with no mention of what happened to the last one. I tried the firm approach, but it only got me shock and dismay at my rude and offensive behavior for a response. My current patient approach doesn't seem to be working either, so I need to try something else.

  I'd appreciate any help or advice anyone can provide in this matter. I'm thinking of sending portions of this letter to Sport Aviation's advertising department, in case Crossflow is in fact only in the business of taking money. They can hardly be expected to make any guarantees about their advertisers, but I think they'd like to know if something bad was happening. I suppose Crossflow could be experiencing backlogs or technical difficulties, but repeatedly making promises they can't keep is hardly the way to handle that.

  For those who are interested, here is a little more background: The engine was supposed to be delivered six months after placing the order, but there was nothing in the contract to that effect, so that's really only a starting point. They asked for the second payment in February of 2002, so at that point everything seemed to be on track. Around that time, my painter completely ruined my Velocity, abandoned half of it in a hangar two hundred miles away, and left town. As I had no use for an engine while I was sanding off paint, I didn't put any pressure on Crossflow when I didn't hear from them during the rest of 2002. Once, I called to make sure they were still in business and some tech told me that they had lost their reduction unit provider and were building their own. As that seemed reasonable, I forgave them for the delay, but not for the fact that they didn't bother to tell me. In the later part of 2003, my next painter seemed to be closing in on fixing the mess the first one had made, so I called Crossflow to check on the status of my engine. No one who knew anything was there, but Jorge called back and expressed his surprise that I had been waiting for so long without any explanation, apologized, and promised that my engine would be shipped in two weeks. A month or so later, Anna, who had taken my initial order, told me that Jorge was wrong, but that they would have my engine ready in two weeks. She is very pleasant, and we discussed what had happened up to that point, including the fact that other than not being told what was going on, I wasn't particularly upset about not having my engine, due to problems with painters. A couple of months later, after several more two week delivery dates came and went, I tried my firm approach, attacking their completely lack of communication with their customers and inability to live up to numerous promises on delivery dates, in a letter even longer than this one. Anna was shocked and dismayed, called my statements appalling, slanderous, and untrue, and said she couldn't believe I would say such things considering the pleasant and professional relationship we had built up over the years. When she calmed down, her only explanation was that she thought I didn't want my engine until my painter was finished and that she was waiting for me to let her know when I was ready. Seeing that I would get nowhere being firm, I told her I was ready, and she asked for the final payment in April of 2004. According to the contract, the final payment is to be made when the engine is ready for shipment. Once she had the payment she told me they would ship my engine in two weeks. She has said the same thing many times since April, and still no engine. The last promised shipment date was in July, but she added that they were getting ready for Oshkosh and that they were waiting for Velocity to provide them with some dimensions. I realized then that she was lying about the delivery date, and decided to come up with a new plan before calling her again. Obviously, I have made several mistakes in dealing with them, including: admitting I didn't mind the initial delay, trusting them, and sending the final payment without some kind of guarantee that they were actually going to send me an engine in return. But these are hardly mistakes that harm Crossflow, so I don't know what they could blame me for, other than causing a misunderstanding or two.

  To anyone who has made it this far: any suggestions?

  Doug Hayes
  Velocity 173FG (in limbo)
  Boulder, CO

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