REFLECTOR: Aileron Rolls
Lynn Gallup
LGallup at mn.rr.com
Fri Aug 6 07:59:28 CDT 2004
Fred,
I have practiced aileron rolls about twenty times and they are always
terrible. I have talked to Scott Swing by phone to learn his technique and
to one other Velocity owner, Kirk Lindberg. But try as I might I always wind
up in a dive to one side or the other depending upon the direction of the
roll. I have never accomplished a roll with less than 800 ft. loss of
altitude except once I did it with 500 ft. loss but have never been able to
duplicate it. When you were learning to do them was there a particular thing
which stands out as as the "secret"? (Mine is a long-wing, maybe that makes
a difference.)
Thanks,
Lynn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Marconi" <fmarconi at bellsouth.net>
To: <Jim_Agnew_2 at yahoo.com>; "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
<reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
> What am I missing. We have done aileron rolls with N244FM the plane
> respons beautifully and I have just a standard set up except my tubes are
> steel rather than the aluminum.
>
> Fred
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Agnew" <jim_agnew_2 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
>
>
> > Ronnie,
> >
> > The answer is simple, the AL tube in a direct twisting
> > application will deliver all of the torque and motion to
> > the aileron. When it is swung through an arc the AL tub
> > will suddenly bow when the aileron load becomes to high and
> > the torque is transformed into a bowing of the tube rather
> > than moving the aileron.
> >
> > Jim
> > --- Ronnie Brown <romott at adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure you have a problem.
> > >
> > > The 172 that I flew for 10 years didn't do a very good
> > > job of returning to
> > > wings level if you turned the yoke loose while in a turn.
> > > In fact, if you
> > > were more than about 20-30 degrees banked, it would turn
> > > even steeper.
> > > Called spiral stability - I'm not sure I understand why
> > > that is desirable in
> > > a certified airplane.
> > >
> > > The tendency for an airplane to return to wings level is
> > > dihedral effect.
> > > The Velocity is supposed to be fairly good at trying to
> > > do this, although I
> > > haven't really tested this on my 173 Elite RG. You
> > > wouldn't think the Velo
> > > would be as good as a C172, since the 172 is hanging
> > > under its wings - the
> > > Velo has mid wings, and they go straight out. I guess
> > > the swept wings
> > > causes the dihedral effect. I love the way mine flies,
> > > very stable for
> > > cross country and IFR. And it handles well at low speed,
> > > on final. Just
> > > lands fast like a canard. Otherwise, GREAT airplane!
> > >
> > > Having the ailerons set at 1/2" down while centered
> > > sounds scary. That
> > > would cause a pretty good pitch "down" effect. Are you
> > > saying that your
> > > ailerons go to faired straight neutral while in the air?
> > > Sounds like
> > > something is giving too much slop in your aileron control
> > > linkages?
> > >
> > > My ailerons have one piece torque tubes - no connector
> > > near the aileron end.
> > > I don't see the slop or give that some folks say they see
> > > with the "off
> > > center" aluminum torque tube arrangement. I can't see
> > > that it matters where
> > > the torque tube is mounted in relationship to the hinge
> > > line. As long as
> > > the torque tube is attached in such a way that it points
> > > to the aileron bell
> > > crank at the root of the wing, I don't understand the
> > > "wrap-up" that you
> > > mention.
> > >
> > > Ronnie
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lynn Gallup" <LGallup at mn.rr.com>
> > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
> > > <reflector at tvbf.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 6:17 PM
> > > Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
> > >
> > >
> > > | Velo-people,
> > > | A while back I started a thread called "aileron
> > > stiffness". This really
> > > | related more to the degree of aileron self-centering
> > > following a turn than
> > > | to stiffness per se. On my airplane I thought the
> > > ailerons displayed
> > > almost
> > > | no self-centering in flight and I attributed this to
> > > stiffness or friction
> > > | in the system.
> > > |
> > > | I noticed that on the ground the aileron control seemed
> > > fairly smooth and
> > > | easy compared to in-flight so I decided to reject the
> > > "stiffness and
> > > | friction" hypothesis and look elsewhere. I postulated
> > > that there might be
> > > | some kind of "slack" or "wrap-up" in the system due,
> > > possibly, to bending
> > > of
> > > | the aileron torque tubes because they are not attached
> > > at the center of
> > > | pivot of the ailerons. As an experiment, I adjusted the
> > > ailerons so they
> > > had
> > > | a half-inch of droop when centered. I felt this would
> > > torque-load the
> > > system
> > > | in flight and I should feel at least something
> > > different. I have now flown
> > > | the airplane about ten hours this way and pretty much
> > > put it through it's
> > > | paces. My feeling is that the change definitely helped
> > > but not enough.
> > > |
> > > | I believe the aileron droop idea is really a
> > > second-order fix, good enough
> > > | for an experiment but not the primary factor so I
> > > really don't want to
> > > | increase the droop; I might break something - Like my
> > > head. So I am now
> > > | thinking about two things (1) replacing the aluminum
> > > aileron torque tubes
> > > | with steel and/or (2) installing universal joints where
> > > the tubes attach
> > > to
> > > | the ailerons.
> > > |
> > > | Have any of you had any experience with either of these
> > > ideas?
> > > |
> > > | Regards,
> > > | Lynn
> > > |
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> >
> >
> > =====
> > James F. Agnew
> > Jim_Agnew_2 at Yahoo.Com
> > Tampa, FL
> > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
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