REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
Ronnie Brown
romott at adelphia.net
Thu Aug 5 08:10:08 CDT 2004
Ah, that is a whole different problem!!!!
I suggest you buy an autopilot such as the Navaid or TruTrak!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Gallup" <LGallup at mn.rr.com>
To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
| Fred,
| Maybe the term "self-centering" doesn't give the right picture. Here's
what
| I'm talking about:
|
| OK, you are flying along with no turbulance at 10,000 feet. You want to
make
| a tiny aileron adjustment because the GPS says you are ever so slowly
going
| off-course. So you try to make a tiny adjustment but normal "stiction"
| (sticky friction) in the system makes your adjustment just a tiny bit too
| much so you hunt back and forth a few time and finally you seem to have
it -
| But no you don't, not quite, so you keep at it. After a while you don't
care
| so much about maintaining the course, so you wait until the GPS says your
a
| mile off course and then you adjust it. But then you decide, this is
pretty
| crappy flying - I ought to be able to put the wings dead level and
maintain
| a straight-line course for at least three minutes. So it goes, five hours
of
| constant tiny readjustments of the ailerons to get from the gulf coast to
| home
|
| Maybe the word is "null", there's no null point. If you offset the
ailerons
| 1/1000 inch - That, by god, is where they will stay!
| Maybe I just flew the A36 Bonanza for too many hours before I started
flying
| the Velocity - I'm spoiled.
| Regards,
| Lynn
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Fred Marconi" <fmarconi at bellsouth.net>
| To: <Jim_Agnew_2 at yahoo.com>; "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
| <reflector at tvbf.org>
| Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:30 PM
| Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
|
|
| > What am I missing. We have done aileron rolls with N244FM the plane
| > respons beautifully and I have just a standard set up except my tubes
are
| > steel rather than the aluminum.
| >
| > Fred
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "Jim Agnew" <jim_agnew_2 at yahoo.com>
| > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
| > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:59 PM
| > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
| >
| >
| > > Ronnie,
| > >
| > > The answer is simple, the AL tube in a direct twisting
| > > application will deliver all of the torque and motion to
| > > the aileron. When it is swung through an arc the AL tub
| > > will suddenly bow when the aileron load becomes to high and
| > > the torque is transformed into a bowing of the tube rather
| > > than moving the aileron.
| > >
| > > Jim
| > > --- Ronnie Brown <romott at adelphia.net> wrote:
| > >
| > > > I'm not sure you have a problem.
| > > >
| > > > The 172 that I flew for 10 years didn't do a very good
| > > > job of returning to
| > > > wings level if you turned the yoke loose while in a turn.
| > > > In fact, if you
| > > > were more than about 20-30 degrees banked, it would turn
| > > > even steeper.
| > > > Called spiral stability - I'm not sure I understand why
| > > > that is desirable in
| > > > a certified airplane.
| > > >
| > > > The tendency for an airplane to return to wings level is
| > > > dihedral effect.
| > > > The Velocity is supposed to be fairly good at trying to
| > > > do this, although I
| > > > haven't really tested this on my 173 Elite RG. You
| > > > wouldn't think the Velo
| > > > would be as good as a C172, since the 172 is hanging
| > > > under its wings - the
| > > > Velo has mid wings, and they go straight out. I guess
| > > > the swept wings
| > > > causes the dihedral effect. I love the way mine flies,
| > > > very stable for
| > > > cross country and IFR. And it handles well at low speed,
| > > > on final. Just
| > > > lands fast like a canard. Otherwise, GREAT airplane!
| > > >
| > > > Having the ailerons set at 1/2" down while centered
| > > > sounds scary. That
| > > > would cause a pretty good pitch "down" effect. Are you
| > > > saying that your
| > > > ailerons go to faired straight neutral while in the air?
| > > > Sounds like
| > > > something is giving too much slop in your aileron control
| > > > linkages?
| > > >
| > > > My ailerons have one piece torque tubes - no connector
| > > > near the aileron end.
| > > > I don't see the slop or give that some folks say they see
| > > > with the "off
| > > > center" aluminum torque tube arrangement. I can't see
| > > > that it matters where
| > > > the torque tube is mounted in relationship to the hinge
| > > > line. As long as
| > > > the torque tube is attached in such a way that it points
| > > > to the aileron bell
| > > > crank at the root of the wing, I don't understand the
| > > > "wrap-up" that you
| > > > mention.
| > > >
| > > > Ronnie
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > > From: "Lynn Gallup" <LGallup at mn.rr.com>
| > > > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
| > > > <reflector at tvbf.org>
| > > > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 6:17 PM
| > > > Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > | Velo-people,
| > > > | A while back I started a thread called "aileron
| > > > stiffness". This really
| > > > | related more to the degree of aileron self-centering
| > > > following a turn than
| > > > | to stiffness per se. On my airplane I thought the
| > > > ailerons displayed
| > > > almost
| > > > | no self-centering in flight and I attributed this to
| > > > stiffness or friction
| > > > | in the system.
| > > > |
| > > > | I noticed that on the ground the aileron control seemed
| > > > fairly smooth and
| > > > | easy compared to in-flight so I decided to reject the
| > > > "stiffness and
| > > > | friction" hypothesis and look elsewhere. I postulated
| > > > that there might be
| > > > | some kind of "slack" or "wrap-up" in the system due,
| > > > possibly, to bending
| > > > of
| > > > | the aileron torque tubes because they are not attached
| > > > at the center of
| > > > | pivot of the ailerons. As an experiment, I adjusted the
| > > > ailerons so they
| > > > had
| > > > | a half-inch of droop when centered. I felt this would
| > > > torque-load the
| > > > system
| > > > | in flight and I should feel at least something
| > > > different. I have now flown
| > > > | the airplane about ten hours this way and pretty much
| > > > put it through it's
| > > > | paces. My feeling is that the change definitely helped
| > > > but not enough.
| > > > |
| > > > | I believe the aileron droop idea is really a
| > > > second-order fix, good enough
| > > > | for an experiment but not the primary factor so I
| > > > really don't want to
| > > > | increase the droop; I might break something - Like my
| > > > head. So I am now
| > > > | thinking about two things (1) replacing the aluminum
| > > > aileron torque tubes
| > > > | with steel and/or (2) installing universal joints where
| > > > the tubes attach
| > > > to
| > > > | the ailerons.
| > > > |
| > > > | Have any of you had any experience with either of these
| > > > ideas?
| > > > |
| > > > | Regards,
| > > > | Lynn
| > > > |
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| > >
| > >
| > > =====
| > > James F. Agnew
| > > Jim_Agnew_2 at Yahoo.Com
| > > Tampa, FL
| > > Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying
| > > _______________________________________________
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| > >
| >
| >
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|
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http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
|
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