REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering

[Scott Derrick]

Ronnie,

The factory sells a new stick that has a "C" style mount to the torque tube 
instead of just bolting it through the tube&stick.  Completely eliminates 
the play there.  I guess you could weld one onto your existing stick

Scott

At 07:16 AM 8/4/2004, you wrote:
>How can the tubing in the wing bow???  It is in a rather tight tunnel in the
>wing.  I had to wrap some sand paper around a piece of tubing to open it up
>the hole to keep the tube from rubbing inside the wing.  Just how much
>force/torque were you and your engineer friends using to determine that
>there was a problem with the aluminum tubing warping?
>
>In normal flight, we are only talking about 10 pounds of stick force at the
>very most.  And by the way, re the warping in the keel - on my Elite RG,
>there IS a support bearing halfway down the keel.  Again, no way for the
>aluminum aileron tube in the keel to warp.  If there is any lost motion in
>the system, I would suspect the push/pull cables.  And at the method used to
>attach the control stick to the aileron torque tube - I gotta fix that!
>
>Ronnie
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Agnew" <jim_agnew_2 at yahoo.com>
>To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list" <reflector at tvbf.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 9:59 PM
>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
>
>
>| Ronnie,
>|
>| The answer is simple, the AL tube in a direct twisting
>| application will deliver all of the torque and motion to
>| the aileron.  When it is swung through an arc the AL tub
>| will suddenly bow when the aileron load becomes to high and
>| the torque is transformed into a bowing of the tube rather
>| than moving the aileron.
>|
>| Jim
>| --- Ronnie Brown <romott at adelphia.net> wrote:
>|
>| > I'm not sure you have a problem.
>| >
>| > The 172 that I flew for 10 years didn't do a very good
>| > job of returning to
>| > wings level if you turned the yoke loose while in a turn.
>| >  In fact, if you
>| > were more than about 20-30 degrees banked, it would turn
>| > even steeper.
>| > Called spiral stability - I'm not sure I understand why
>| > that is desirable in
>| > a certified airplane.
>| >
>| > The tendency for an airplane to return to wings level is
>| > dihedral effect.
>| > The Velocity is supposed to be fairly good at trying to
>| > do this, although I
>| > haven't really tested this on my 173 Elite RG.  You
>| > wouldn't think the Velo
>| > would be as good as a C172, since the 172 is hanging
>| > under its wings - the
>| > Velo has mid wings, and they go straight out.  I guess
>| > the swept wings
>| > causes the dihedral effect.  I love the way mine flies,
>| > very stable for
>| > cross country and IFR.  And it handles well at low speed,
>| > on final.  Just
>| > lands fast like a canard.  Otherwise, GREAT airplane!
>| >
>| > Having the ailerons set at 1/2" down while centered
>| > sounds scary.  That
>| > would cause a pretty good pitch "down" effect.  Are you
>| > saying that your
>| > ailerons go to faired straight neutral while in the air?
>| > Sounds like
>| > something is giving too much slop in your aileron control
>| > linkages?
>| >
>| > My ailerons have one piece torque tubes - no connector
>| > near the aileron end.
>| > I don't see the slop or give that some folks say they see
>| > with the "off
>| > center" aluminum torque tube arrangement.  I can't see
>| > that it matters where
>| > the torque tube is mounted in relationship to the hinge
>| > line.  As long as
>| > the torque tube is attached in such a way that it points
>| > to the aileron bell
>| > crank at the root of the wing, I don't understand the
>| > "wrap-up" that you
>| > mention.
>| >
>| > Ronnie
>| >
>| >
>| >
>| >
>| >
>| >
>| > ----- Original Message -----
>| > From: "Lynn Gallup" <LGallup at mn.rr.com>
>| > To: "Velocity Aircraft Owners and Builders list"
>| > <reflector at tvbf.org>
>| > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 6:17 PM
>| > Subject: REFLECTOR: Aileron self-centering
>| >
>| >
>| > | Velo-people,
>| > | A while back I started a thread called "aileron
>| > stiffness". This really
>| > | related more to the degree of aileron self-centering
>| > following a turn than
>| > | to stiffness per se.  On my airplane I thought the
>| > ailerons displayed
>| > almost
>| > | no self-centering in flight and I attributed this to
>| > stiffness or friction
>| > | in the system.
>| > |
>| > | I noticed that on the ground the aileron control seemed
>| > fairly smooth and
>| > | easy compared to in-flight so I decided to reject the
>| > "stiffness and
>| > | friction" hypothesis and look elsewhere. I postulated
>| > that there might be
>| > | some kind of "slack" or "wrap-up" in the system due,
>| > possibly, to bending
>| > of
>| > | the aileron torque tubes because they are not attached
>| > at the center of
>| > | pivot of the ailerons. As an experiment, I adjusted the
>| > ailerons so they
>| > had
>| > | a half-inch of droop when centered. I felt this would
>| > torque-load the
>| > system
>| > | in flight and I should feel at least something
>| > different. I have now flown
>| > | the airplane about ten hours this way and pretty much
>| > put it through it's
>| > | paces. My feeling is that the change definitely helped
>| > but not enough.
>| > |
>| > | I believe the aileron droop idea is really a
>| > second-order fix, good enough
>| > | for an experiment but not the primary factor so I
>| > really don't want to
>| > | increase the droop;  I might break something - Like my
>| > head. So I am now
>| > | thinking about two things (1) replacing the aluminum
>| > aileron torque tubes
>| > | with steel and/or (2) installing universal joints where
>| > the tubes attach
>| > to
>| > | the ailerons.
>| > |
>| > | Have any of you had any experience with either of these
>| > ideas?
>| > |
>| > | Regards,
>| > | Lynn
>| > |
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>|
>| =====
>| James F. Agnew
>| Jim_Agnew_2 at Yahoo.Com
>| Tampa, FL
>| Velocity 173 Elite Aircraft Completed & Flying
>| _______________________________________________
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