REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
reflector@tvbf.org
reflector@tvbf.org
Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:41:40 -0400
>
> From: "Scott Baker" <sbakr@comcast.net>
> Date: 2004/04/23 Fri PM 05:59:08 EDT
> To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
>
> To anyone who is remotely interested in purchasing an engine from ATP -
> Affordable Turbine Power - LISTEN UP!
> What follows may save you $10,000 (or more)!
> ATP is selling "snake oil" as far as my opinion goes.
> Several Velocity customers have placed orders and deposits for ATP engines -
> and have been the victims of broken promises and outright fraud.
> One Velocity customer placed a $12,000 deposit with ATP towards a +300hp
> version of their experimental turbine - waited to the promised delivery
> date - called for the delivery - and was told by the "good" folks at ATP
> that:
> a. They discontinued development of the 300 hp version of the engine
> b. They had no immediate plans to renew development of the 300 hp engine
> c. Despite the written order form that guaranteed all deposits would be
> escrowed - ATP nevertheless spent his deposit, and
> d. They have no plans to refund his deposit.
> To add insult to injury, this Velocity builder had purchased a constant
> speed propeller that works (for all intent and purposes) on a turbine
> engine - so he is also "out" the money he invested in the propeller.
> This is not an isolated case. Another Velocity customer that I spoke with
> ALSO lost a substantial amount of money due to the fact that ATP could not
> provide an engine and would not return his deposit.
>
> In the last edition of AOPA's ePilot, it had an announcement piece promoting
> ATP. I wrote to the editor of ePilot and told him about the fraud this
> company has committed and gave him the names of two Velocity customers who
> were cheated by ATP. The editor followed through - and attempted to reach
> ATP for comment. They (ATP) refuse to talk with him. The customers did
> talk with AOPA and told them what happened.
>
> One year ago ATP had a booth at Sun n Fun showing their ATP powered RV.
> Between SnF and Oshkosh the aircraft added (what is reported to be) less
> than 10-hours of flight time. Think about that. 10-hours of flight time in
> 4-months. If I were selling a new engine - turbine or otherwise - I would
> hardly boast about 10-hours of operation in 4-months. Something was (and
> is) obviously amiss.
>
> Incredibly, I am contacted by Velocity customers who have talked with ATP
> ... and ATP believe it or not, is giving Velocity as a reference! What
> balls!
>
> After SnF 2003, ATP went "underground" at last years Oshkosh and this years
> SnF. They did not have a booth, but they did promote their "fantastic,
> everybody needs to have one turbine engine" at an obscure Cub display. ATP,
> you will find, is not in the show program.
>
> These people have the lowest business ethics. If you are fool enough to
> give them your money, they are happy to take it.
>
> And that's all I have to say about that.
>
> Scott B.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cervini" <john@johnsonlane.com>
> To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 4:47 PM
> Subject: REFLECTOR:ATP Turbines - info
>
>
> > This is from another group.
> > ************************************
> >
> > Dear Friends,
> >
> >
> >
> > My name is Jeff Davidson, and I am the new CEO of ATP. I am writing to
> > provide an update on our activities, our future and the availability of
> our
> > products.
> >
> >
> >
> > Many of you are likely wondering what ATP has been doing the past several
> > months and years. In short, we've been preparing ourselves, in a number
> of
> > ways, to manufacture, market, distribute and support turbine engines for
> the
> > experimental market. We have been at work building a business team,
> raising
> > money, finalizing patent applications and production requirements and
> > developing a great and innovative product more fully. Rather than come to
> > market with an incomplete product or plan, when we launch, we will be
> fully
> > prepared to fill orders and support our customers. In short, we've been
> > working out the challenges and difficulties of this business, so that our
> > customers are well taken care of.
> >
> >
> >
> > We will be selling two engines initially - one in the range of 150-200 hp;
> > another in the range of 200-250 hp. We are pleased to confirm that
> > customers will be able to order ATP engines at the 2004 AirVenture /
> Oshkosh
> > Air Show, and the first engines will be delivered within 60 days of order.
> > As additional technical information is finalized, we will share this
> > information with you here and on our website. We further anticipate that
> > both of these engines will be sold in the range of $30,000 to $40,000. In
> > addition, depending upon your current configuration, additional
> investments
> > may be required in the firewall-forward.
> >
> >
> >
> > As you know our engines will offer several significant advantages:
> >
> >
> >
> > - Reliable with a 10,000 hour time between overhaul (TBO)
> >
> > - Low maintenance - with few moving parts
> >
> > - High Performance - with a very high power to weight ratio and
> > very effective performance at altitude
> >
> > - Little reason to throttle to 55% to "save the engine"
> >
> > - Pilot Friendly - Easy to control and operate with the engine
> > computer doing the hard work
> >
> > - Fuel Efficient and Fuel Versatile - Capable of burning nearly
> any
> > fuel - Gasoline, Diesel, Kerosene, JP-series efficiently
> >
> >
> >
> > Within the next few months, we will have far more detailed flight and
> > operational characteristics available as we gain flight time on additional
> > aircraft beyond the RV-4. We look forward to keeping all of you updated
> on
> > our progress in this regard. I am confident that this information will
> > answer this forum's questions on the performance characteristics on the
> > engine. We are convinced that the ultimate characteristics and
> performance
> > of the engine will speak for itself; however, we are in the process of
> > confirming all of our test results. Much like we will not go to market
> with
> > an incomplete product, the test data that we share must be of the highest
> > quality and not marketing hype - we respectfully ask your indulgence as we
> > conduct additional tests and validate this data.
> >
> >
> >
> > We have partnered with Rivers Aeronautical to provide the firewall-forward
> > kits to the experimental aircraft market. Rivers and ATP will have
> several
> > of the most popular kits available for purchase at Oshkosh, with plans to
> > quickly offer kits for a broad array of kit aircraft.
> >
> >
> >
> > These firewall forward kits will require the buyer to install a new engine
> > mount if replacing a current engine or to use a Rivers Aeronautical
> firewall
> > forward kit if doing a new build. Due to our engine's considerably lower
> > weight, as compared to internal combustion, reciprocating engines, the
> > turbine will be moved slightly forward (averaging about 10 to 12 inches)
> > from the firewall to keep the center of mass in its proper location. With
> > this new mount, the aircraft will also need a new cowling. Finally, a
> > variable pitch in-flight adjustable electrical propeller is currently
> > required. This is required because the engine must start in a a no-load
> > condition. The details on the kit are still being hammered out; however,
> > this kit will cost approximately 10,000 to $12,000, and a propeller will
> > cost an additional $5,000 to $10,000. In short, with the purchase of the
> > engine, the propeller and the firewall-forward kit the buyer is fully
> > prepared to install our engine - we don't expect any hidden costs of any
> > sort.
> >
> >
> >
> > Going forward, we are very excited about our ability to deliver these
> > products to the experimental market. We are confident that our product
> > brings a host of advantages to the kit builder and pilot and we look
> forward
> > to sharing more information with you in the coming months. In the
> meantime,
> > please bear with us as we prepare to hit the ground running in July.
> > Between now and then, expect a number of changes with respect to our
> > presence in the market and our ability to share information with you.
> We're
> > confident that the team we've assembled, in conjunction with ATP's
> founders
> > - Charlie and Chuck Nearhoof - will exceed your expectations.
> >
> >
> >
> > Again, thanks for your interest - and we look forward to delivering a
> > practical, sensible turbine engine to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeff Davidson
> >
> > Chief Executive Officer
> >
> > ATP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > ----
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> >
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