REFLECTOR:Re: NPG+
Bill Medsker
reflector@tvbf.org
Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:56:06 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
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I think the intent of NPG+ is to raise the operating temperture of the
engine to make it more fuel efficent.. I know that air cooled diesel farm
and construction engines run hotter than a water cooled engine and are
noticeably more fuel efficient.. =0D
=0D
Bill =0D
=0D
=0D
The few psig of the sealed system simply raises the boiling point by a fe=
w
degrees - boiling still occurs, just at a higher temp. I'm simply not
buying the "insulation by the steam layer" concept. The steam layer is p=
art
of the boiling process, specifically when the boiling rate is very high. =
I
question if a steam layer exists in an engine cooling system, but if it d=
oes
it indicates a very high rate of heat transfer. If insulation did happe=
n,
the steam generation would slow and the steam layer would collapse. A
non-boiling coolant will have a much lower heat transfer rate and that
translates to a higher temperature at the cylinder jacket wall. =0D
The only way the NPG+ makes sense is if water-cooled engines have much lo=
wer
CHTs/EGTs than air-cooled and it is desirable to increase them. =0D
John =0D
Chuck Jensen wrote: =0D
John,I can't pass up an opportunity to show my ignorance (and there are
many!), but I thought the reason for keeping the water coolant under
pressure was so it would not boil against the cylinder jacket. As we kno=
w,
water has a higher boiling point under pressure, so the few psig of the
sealed coolant system keeps the water from boiling when it hits the hot
engine components. When we take the cap off...every so carefully...that
relieves the pressure and the hot water near-instantly boils; spitting li=
ke
a cobra into the face of the unwary. The NPG+ article talks about how it =
won
t "boil" and leave a layer of steam against the hot metal. Steam is
actually quite a good insulator so the engine metal will get even hotter =
if
a layer of steam is present. NPG+ says, since their solution won't boil,
there will never been a steam layer that thermally insulates the engine
metal and thus the heat will be conducted away more efficiently; reducing
the potential for knock/predetonation.I got lost in the issue about the
engine running hotter with NPG+. Unless they mean the whole engine can r=
un
hotter while critical components are kept cooler, which will reduce the
potential for mechanical damage from predetonation while enjoying the eve=
r
so slight improvement of a hotter engine? Measuring such gains probably
falls in the realm of the new "Nanotechnology."With all that said, some o=
f
their claims leave me thinking about the 'ole West Medicine Wagon and the=
ir
medicinal potions. When the claims start filling up a half-page, I start
thinking about half-truths.Chuck=0D
=20
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<DIV>I think the intent of NPG+ is to raise the operating temperture=
of the engine to make it more fuel efficent.. I know that air cooled die=
sel farm and construction engines run hotter than a water cooled engine a=
nd are noticeably more fuel efficient.. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bill </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>The few psig of the sealed system simply raises the boil=
ing point by a few degrees - boiling still occurs, just at a higher temp.=
I'm simply not buying the "insulation by the steam layer" concept.=
The steam layer is part of the boiling process, specifically when =
the boiling rate is very high. I question if a steam layer exists i=
n an engine cooling system, but if it does, it indicates a very high rate=
of heat transfer. If insulation did happen, the steam generation w=
ould slow and the steam layer would collapse. A non-boiling coolant=
will have a much lower heat transfer rate and that translates to a highe=
r temperature at the cylinder jacket wall. <BR>The only way the NPG+ make=
s sense is if water-cooled engines have much lower CHTs/EGTs than air-coo=
led and it is desirable to increase them.=20
<P>John=20
<P>Chuck Jensen wrote:=20
<DIV TYPE=3D"CITE">
<STYLE></STYLE>
<SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004>John,</SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-1804=
2004></SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004>I can't pass up an opportuni=
ty to show my ignorance (and there are many!), but I thought the reason f=
or keeping the water coolant under pressure was so it would not boil agai=
nst the cylinder jacket. As we know, water has a higher boiling poi=
nt under pressure, so the few psig of the sealed coolant system keeps the=
water from boiling when it hits the hot engine components. When we=
take the cap off...every so carefully...that relieves the pressure and t=
he hot water near-instantly boils; spitting like a cobra into the face of=
the unwary. </SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004></SPAN><SPAN cl=
ass=3D031475220-18042004>The NPG+ article talks about how it won't "boil"=
and leave a layer of steam against the hot metal. Steam is actuall=
y quite a good insulator so the engine metal will get even hotter if a la=
yer of steam is present. NPG+ says, since their solution won't boil=
, there will never been a steam layer that thermally insulates the engine=
metal and thus the heat will be conducted away more efficiently; reducin=
g the potential for knock/predetonation.</SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-18=
042004></SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004>I got lost in the issue ab=
out the engine running hotter with NPG+. Unless they mean the whole=
engine can run hotter while critical components are kept cooler, which w=
ill reduce the potential for mechanical damage from predetonation while e=
njoying the ever so slight improvement of a hotter engine? Measurin=
g such gains probably falls in the realm of the new "Nanotechnology."</SP=
AN><SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004></SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-180420=
04>With all that said, some of their claims leave me thinking about the '=
ole West Medicine Wagon and their medicinal potions. When the claim=
s start filling up a half-page, I start thinking about half-truths.</SPAN=
><SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004></SPAN><SPAN class=3D031475220-18042004=
>Chuck</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></TD></TR>
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