REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
Chuck Jensen
reflector@tvbf.org
Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:22:00 -0400
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Chris,
Well, I didn't REALLY think it would be all that expensive to set up but
wanted to grant the benefit of the doubt. We'll see what some of the other
follow up comments are but I'm betting that Velo is a majority of one if
they believe that a information system on the net is not a good idea. Robin
succinctly pointed out, most aircraft kit companies generally come up short
with information technology....all the more reason for Velo to take the
initiative to be different, and better. How often does an opportunity come
along to separate yourself from the competitive pack by doing something that
is good for quality, safety and, ultimately, sales?
Darn it, I'm so pumped over the idea that I feel like flying down to
Sebastian right now and help start setting up the program....unfortunately,
I can't because the Velo is in the shop and its a long walk.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of
Christopher Barber
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:30 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
Chuck,
I respectfully disagree. A system that keeps us posted of changes and safety
issues could be done VERY cheaply. Something as simple as a broadcast
email....yeah, not all owners would be reached, but most would. Not all are
being reached now. All that would need to be done is have an email line on
the order form and that is added to the broadcast email list. Yes, that is
very simplistic, but a partial resolution. Hell, IF I had to pay a couple of
hundred for initial subscription, I might as well continue with VV....which,
btw, I plan to do. I like getting it even if I think it is obsolete as a
primary information media (and out of date as to most of its information....
other than for entertainment). Also, very labor intensive to sort through
for real information. (even though I liked seeing Kevin's bird highlighted).
I know not all builders have internet access at home, but ALL have access to
the internet via local libraries, colleges etc. To be able to easily go to a
web page and verify current changes and safety information seems to be a
good motivation to PAY ATTENTION. To use this as an excuse not to use a
better and and easy resource I think borders on negligence (strong word.
Sorry, but it is my opinion). I respect, like and appreciate the folks at
Velocity Inc. a great deal, however, I am extremely disappointed that they
are relying on, IMNSHO, dated arguments. I think it is a mistake that the
Velo web page does not have an alert page (and email list) that can be
easily updated by Brendan (sorry Brendan..more work. But he seems to be the
only one that focuses on Computer issues...maybe Scott B too). This can be
easily done by CHEAP software off the shelf. I AM NOT a computer guy, but
even I can do this kind of stuff. The only issue is the time and desire to
do it. Once implemented, very little time is needed.
I do not know what kind of deal Velo has with Lavorie graphics, but if it
were me, I would be annoyed at the inaccessible nature of updating the web
page easily. Maybe Rick does it for free and as a result it low priority.
I was recently told that the work on the Velocity Store page on the web was
done a while ago (if you have noticed it has been off line for several
months), but the web people have not posted it yet...NOW, information has
changed and thus it will be delayed further. I really would rather go to
this info page then AS&S FIRST.
I think that Velocity needs to get past the idea that the internet is a
novelty. Heck, I basically bought my kit over the internet (I did buy my
Jaguar online). I am not some freak power user...just pay attention to the
world around me.
One of the arguments seems to stem that everyone has a mailbox, thus VV is
the best media. But if not everyone subscribes, for whatever reason, it
does little good. When it can be made free and available but it is not AND
it is charged for, it is almost as if safety information is being held
hostage in return for a dollar (BTW, I don't think this, but it does not
look good). NOW, PLEASE NOTE, yes, I am an attorney, but I AM on VELOCITY's
side (and I am not usually a litigation attorney), and I am very much
against the abuse of the legal system (it should NOT be looked at as a
lottery), but, how would it sound to a jury to hear that the SAFETY
information is SOLD. I truly think the arguments are "old" (as is this
discussion) and not doing it "better" is a false economy. I think Velocity
has been quoted prices for internet issues that seemed very high at the
time. As a result the option was shelved. But it can be done economically
and in a streamlined manner. I hope the "powers that be" at Velocity take
their head out of the sand. FWIW.
All the best,
Chris
Christopher Barber
Attorney and Counselor at Law
"Serving the needs of Senior Texans"
Barber Law Firm
11930 S Sam Houston Pkwy E
Suite 103
Houston, Texas 77089-4755
281-464-LAWS (5297)
CBarber@TexasAttorney.net
<http://www.texasattorney.net/> www.TexasAttorney.net
<http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001> Texas
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of
Chuck Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:05 AM
To: 'reflector@tvbf.org'
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
Kurt,
You bring up a good point...and bad point. Certainly, the good was your
discovering the deficient nose gear before it had a chance to bring itself
to your attention at a most awkward time. The bad point is the "system"
that would have you in a place where you have a known deficit part, and
didn't know it. Strictly my opinion, but in this day of computers,
internet, email and relational databases, it seems there ought to be a
better tracking/notification system.
Such a system would be a significant investment in setting it up, in that
there are already a few hundred planes of unknown history and pedigree that
would need to be entered. But once set up, it would have high utility value
to builders and would help prevent your very circumstance. If the Factory
(the obvious "owner" of the program) needed to recover some of the upfront
cost, they could ask a one time subscription fee of $200 or $300 to cover
initial costs. The budget-minded among the builders could just choose to
not participate and continue to rely on luck in obtaining the information.
I would expect that a quality control program of this sort would ultimately
come close to paying for itself as a strong selling point to new potential
buyers for the Factory.
I'm sure Scott could fill us in on the number of times that changeout of the
nose gear has been mentioned in VV and here-n-there, but you are evidence
that the "system" employed is still not good enough. From your postings, it
seems apparent that you take care, are merticulous and are sometimes even
anal on details (your description!), yet you (re)discovered the problem by
luck and happenstance. That's not really good enough for a plane that ends
up costing $100K+.
Still room to improve.
Chuck
[Chuck Jensen] -----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On Behalf Of
NMFlyer1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:12 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals, Methods & Views
This has been an interesting couple weeks. I just thought I would
share a couple things.
I know you have read some of my posts regarding aileron and rudder
frustrations lately.
I have been working on my kit for quite some time (almost 3000 hours so
far). No fast build anything, almost nothing farmed out, and my change to
Chevy power eats up a LOT of time.
Due to the time line, many things have changed at Velocity. My old manual is
obviously outdated, but will usually work. On my ailerons, it did not. The
factory has always been helpful and patient, and my aileron quest caused me
to start printing out the newer On-Line plans. Of course, the new plans and
my old manual are similar in some areas, and quite different in others.
I believe that a number of improvements and clarifications are located in
the new On-Line instructions that would be valuable to other builders that
have been building for some time.
There will be areas where the older parts or methods do not quite jive with
the new instructions. That can be dealt with, but I believe the newer
methods are much improved.
I ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce & Headache, and my rudders should
be finished within a day or two of receiving the parts. The relatively cheap
parts will allow me to follow the newer methods in the manual, and have
better functioning and longer lasting rudder controls.
Since I have been building a while, I have a stack of velocity Views about
3" thick. I read every one and check the KPC's in every issue. There is
always the possibility that one can miss some information, and that happened
to me.
The latest V-V Rehashed the issue on nose gear forks. Last night in the
hangar, I glanced down at my nose gear fork, and: Holy Batshit... It looks
like I have the obsolete nose gear fork!
Now I have to get my V-V from work and double check... but THAT is a
valuable piece of information! That one little piece of previously emparted
information could well have saved me enough headache and damage money to pay
for a life's subscription to V-V.
Just thought I'd share.... my TheRapist says it's good for me :)
All the best... Kurt Winker
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<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004>Chris,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004>Well, I didn't REALLY think it would be all
that expensive to set up but wanted to grant the benefit of the
doubt. We'll see what some of the other follow up comments are but I'm
betting that Velo is a majority of one if they believe that a information system
on the net is not a good idea. Robin succinctly pointed out, most
aircraft kit companies generally come up short with information
technology....all the more reason for Velo to take the initiative to be
different, and better. How often does an opportunity come along to
separate yourself from the competitive pack by doing something that is
good for quality, safety and, ultimately, sales?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004>Darn it, I'm so pumped over the idea
that I feel like flying down to Sebastian right now and help start
setting up the program....unfortunately, I can't because the Velo is in the shop
and its a long walk.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=078130211-14042004>Chuck</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Christopher Barber<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:30
AM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Velocity
Manuals, Methods & Views<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>Chuck,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>I respectfully disagree. A system that
keeps us posted of changes and safety issues could be done VERY cheaply.
Something as simple as a broadcast email....yeah, not all owners would be
reached, but most would. Not all are being reached now. All that would need to
be done is have an email line on the order form and that is added to the
broadcast email list. Yes, that is very simplistic, but a partial resolution.
Hell, IF I had to pay a couple of hundred for initial subscription, I might as
well continue with VV....which, btw, I plan to do. I like getting it even if I
think it is obsolete as a primary information media (and out of date as to
most of its information.... other than for entertainment). Also, very
labor intensive to sort through for real information. (even though I liked
seeing Kevin's bird highlighted).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>I know not all builders have internet
access at home, but ALL have access to the internet via local libraries,
colleges etc. To be able to easily go to a web page and verify current
changes and safety information seems to be a good motivation to PAY
ATTENTION. To use this as an excuse not to use a better
and and easy resource I think borders on negligence (strong word. Sorry,
but it is my opinion). I respect, like and appreciate the folks at
Velocity Inc. a great deal, however, I am extremely disappointed that they are
relying on, IMNSHO, dated arguments. I think it is a mistake that the
Velo web page does not have an alert page (and email list) that can
be easily updated by Brendan (sorry Brendan..more work. But he seems to be the
only one that focuses on Computer issues...maybe Scott B too). This can
be easily done by CHEAP software off the shelf. I AM NOT a computer guy,
but even I can do this kind of stuff. The only issue is the time and desire to
do it. Once implemented, very little time is needed.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>I do not know what kind of deal Velo has
with Lavorie graphics, but if it were me, I would be annoyed at the
inaccessible nature of updating the web page easily. Maybe Rick does it
for free and as a result it low priority. I was recently told that the
work on the Velocity Store page on the web was done a while ago (if you have
noticed it has been off line for several months), but the web people have not
posted it yet...NOW, information has changed and thus it will be delayed
further. I really would rather go to this info page then AS&S
FIRST.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>I think that Velocity needs to get past
the idea that the internet is a novelty. Heck, I basically bought my kit over
the internet (I did buy my Jaguar online). I am not some freak power
user...just pay attention to the world around me. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>One of the arguments seems to stem that
everyone has a mailbox, thus VV is the best media. But if not everyone
subscribes, for whatever reason, it does little good. When it can be
made free and available but it is not AND it is charged for, it is almost
as if safety information is being held hostage in return for a dollar (BTW, I
don't think this, but it does not look good). NOW, PLEASE NOTE, yes, I
am an attorney, but I AM on VELOCITY's side (and I am not usually a litigation
attorney), and I am very much against the abuse of the legal system (it should
NOT be looked at as a lottery), but, how would it sound to a jury to hear that
the SAFETY information is SOLD. I truly think the arguments are
"old" (as is this discussion) and not doing it "better" is a false economy. I
think Velocity has been quoted prices for internet issues that seemed very
high at the time. As a result the option was shelved. But it can be done
economically and in a streamlined manner. I hope the "powers that be" at
Velocity take their head out of the sand. FWIW.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>All the best,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=951475615-13042004>Chris</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">
<P class=Section1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">Christopher
Barber<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=Section1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Attorney
and Counselor at Law<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=Section1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=Section1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">"Serving
the needs of Senior Texans"</SPAN></I></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'"><BR><BR></SPAN><STRONG><U><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">Barber Law
Firm</SPAN></U></STRONG><B><U><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'"><BR></SPAN></U></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">11930 S Sam Houston
Pkwy E<BR>Suite 103<BR>Houston, Texas 77089-4755<BR></SPAN><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">281-464-LAWS
(5297</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'">)<BR><BR><BR>CBarber@TexasAttorney.net<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://www.texasattorney.net/"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'CopprplGoth BT'"><FONT
color=#800080>www.TexasAttorney.net</FONT></SPAN></A></SPAN> </P>
<P class=Section1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> </P>
<P class=Section1 style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" align=left><A
href="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001" target=_blank><IMG
alt=Texas src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/462.gif" border=0
NOSEND="1"></A></P></SPAN></STRONG>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> reflector-admin@tvbf.org
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Chuck
Jensen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 10:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'reflector@tvbf.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Velocity Manuals,
Methods & Views<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004>Kurt,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004>You bring up a good point...and bad
point. Certainly, the good was your discovering the deficient nose
gear before it had a chance to bring itself to your attention at a most
awkward time. The bad point is the "system" that would have you
in a place where you have a known deficit part, and didn't know it.
Strictly my opinion, but in this day of computers, internet, email and
relational databases, it seems there ought to be a better
tracking/notification system. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004>Such a system would be a significant
investment in setting it up, in that there are already a few hundred planes
of unknown history and pedigree that would need to be entered. But
once set up, it would have high utility value to builders and would help
prevent your very circumstance. If the Factory (the obvious "owner" of
the program) needed to recover some of the upfront cost, they could ask a
one time subscription fee of $200 or $300 to cover initial costs. The
budget-minded among the builders could just choose to not participate and
continue to rely on luck in obtaining the information. I would expect
that a quality control program of this sort would ultimately come close
to paying for itself as a strong selling point to new potential buyers for
the Factory.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004>I'm sure Scott could fill us in on the
number of times that changeout of the nose gear has been mentioned in VV and
here-n-there, but you are evidence that the "system" employed is still
not good enough. From your postings, it seems apparent that you take
care, are merticulous and are sometimes even anal on details (your
description!), yet you (re)discovered the problem by luck and
happenstance. That's not really good enough for a plane that ends up
costing $100K+.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004>Still room to improve.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004>Chuck</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=000283914-13042004></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT
face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT><BR><SPAN
class=000283914-13042004><FONT face=Arial>[Chuck
Jensen] </FONT></SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>NMFlyer1@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:12
AM<BR><B>To:</B> reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:Velocity
Manuals, Methods & Views<BR></FONT><BR><SPAN
class=000283914-13042004>
</SPAN>This has been an interesting couple weeks. I just thought I would
share a couple things.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>I know you have read some of my posts regarding aileron and rudder
frustrations lately. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have been working on my kit for quite some time (almost 3000 hours
so far). No fast build anything, almost nothing farmed out, and my change
to Chevy power eats up a LOT of time. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Due to the time line, many things have changed at Velocity. My old
manual is obviously outdated, but will usually work. On my ailerons, it
did not. The factory has always been helpful and patient, and my aileron
quest caused me to start printing out the newer On-Line plans. Of
course, the new plans and my old manual are similar in some areas, and
quite different in others. </DIV>
<DIV> I believe that a number of improvements and clarifications are
located in the new On-Line instructions that would be valuable to other
builders that have been building for some time. </DIV>
<DIV>There will be areas where the older parts or methods do not
quite jive with the new instructions. That can be dealt with, but I
believe the newer methods are much improved. </DIV>
<DIV>I ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce & Headache, and my
rudders should be finished within a day or two of receiving the parts. The
relatively cheap parts will allow me to follow the newer methods in the
manual, and have better functioning and longer lasting rudder controls.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Since I have been building a while, I have a stack of velocity Views
about 3" thick. I read every one and check the KPC's in every issue. There
is always the possibility that one can miss some information, and that
happened to me.</DIV>
<DIV>The latest V-V Rehashed the issue on nose gear forks. Last night in
the hangar, I glanced down at my nose gear fork, and: Holy Batshit... It
looks like I have the obsolete nose gear fork! </DIV>
<DIV>Now I have to get my V-V from work and double check... but THAT is a
valuable piece of information! That one little piece of previously
emparted information could well have saved me enough headache and
damage money to pay for a life's subscription to V-V. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just thought I'd share.... my TheRapist says it's good for me
:) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>All the best... Kurt
Winker</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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