REFLECTOR:Follow up on my bad landing

Andy Millin reflector@tvbf.org
Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:23:56 -0400


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Don,
=20
I am very sorry for the damage to your aircraft.  It may be some comfort
that you have figured out what the cause most likely was and can try to =
take
steps to prevent recurrence.
=20
If you feel up to it, I have a question.  From your post, it sounds like =
you
ground the prop down much as an aluminum prop would have curled.  How do =
you
know that no damage was done to the engine?  Please forgive my =
ignorance.  I
really don't know as much as I would like about aircraft engines.  What =
I
had been told was that if the engine was running and the prop came in
contact with anything larger than a bug or a cowl screw, it was =
considered a
prop strike and the engine would need to be torn down and inspected.  An
engine may very well run after the strike, but damage may have been =
incurred
that would only show later if the engine continued use.
=20
I'm asking in earnest, I really would like to learn here.
=20
Thanks,
=20
Andy
=20
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On =
Behalf
Of Donald Royer
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:07 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Follow up on my bad landing





I promised more information on my bad landing last week as soon as I had
more information. After thinking more about what happened and talking to
several eye witnesses who between them saw all of the incident, I can =
say
with some confidence exactly what happened.
=20
First , if was not a gear collapse, it was a gear up landing. What =
initially
confused the situation was when the plane can to a stop, the gear was =
out of
the gear wells and resting on the ground. In addition the gear switch =
was in
the down position. However, a pilot who was out walking his dog at the
appropriate end of the runway and who saw the final approach and =
touchdown
was quite sure that the gear was in the wells at the time of touchdown. =
That
information along with the information that I reported before that I was
distracted enough that I really could not say whether I had two greens =
or
not, but that I would in all probability have seen the red gear unsafe =
light
if it had been on seems to lead to one conclusion.
=20
The only scenario that I could come up with the fits everything is the
following. I put the gear switch down at the appropriate time but then
nothing happened. This possibility has been discussed here on the =
Reflector
before and in fact I have installed the little circuit to bypass the =
down
pressure switch to get out of this condition. Then, the shock of the =
landing
jarred the system out or the hang up and the gear tried to extend as I =
was
sliding down the runway. This conclusion is also supported by the fact =
that
I heard the gear horn at about ten feet. My simultaneous reaction was to
think that the gear warning system was malfunctioning again as it had
several times recently, and before I got around to considering that it =
might
be telling me the truth this time, I was on the ground.
=20
I put the cause to be a combination of a known flaw in the system and =
pilot
error. I simply did not notice that the gear had not extended when it =
should
have. In my defense, I was distracted at the time, it was late afternoon =
and
the sun  was in my eyes and the air was very bumpy. In addition, I was
probably paying too much attention to the head temperatures. The purpose =
of
the flight was to check some changes in the air baffling. I can assure =
you
that never again will I land without being sure that I have two greens
regardless of any other circumstances.
=20
It could have been worse, there was remarkably little damage and the FAA
didn't get involved. A number of airport people helped me get the plane =
off
of the runway and into my locked hangar as soon as possible. The only =
damage
was the expected scraped belly, a little nonstructural damage to one =
wing
tip, and over course, the prop.
=20
There has been a lot of bad mouthing of MT going on here right now, but =
my
prop got abraded down to about half of it's original diameter without
damaging either the engine or the prop hub. That is going to save me =
much
money.
=20
The following is more speculative. I may have uncovered at least one =
cause
of the down pressure switch hang up. We were having one of our down =
slope
wind situations where the air temperature can jump twenty to thirty =
degrees
in an hour or so, and the plane in the hangar was probably at least =
30-35
degrees cooler than it was in flight. With that in mind, I tried a =
little
experiment this morning. I went out to the hangar when the temperature =
was
about 35 degrees. With the plane up on jacks, I retracted the gear and =
left
it up while I warmed the hangar as fast as I could with a propane heater
making sure that the warm air was circulated through the nose =
compartment
and the cabin of the  plane. When the temperature in the hangar reached =
80
degrees, I tried to lower the gear "BINGO" it was hung up. This is only =
one
data point and it may not be reproducible, but it worked once for me.
=20
Donald Royer
=20
=20




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<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>Don,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>I=20
am&nbsp;very sorry for the damage to your aircraft.&nbsp; It may be some =
comfort=20
that you have figured out what the cause most likely was and can try to =
take=20
steps to prevent recurrence.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>If you feel=20
up to it, I&nbsp;have a question.&nbsp; From your post, it sounds like =
you=20
ground the prop down much as an aluminum prop would have curled.&nbsp; =
How do=20
you know that no damage was done to the engine?&nbsp; =
Please&nbsp;forgive my=20
ignorance.&nbsp; I really don't know as much as I would like about =
aircraft=20
engines.&nbsp; What I had been told was that if the engine was running=20
and&nbsp;the prop&nbsp;came in contact with anything larger than a bug =
or a cowl=20
screw, it was considered a prop strike and the engine would need to be =
torn down=20
and inspected.&nbsp; An engine may very well run after the strike, but =
damage=20
may have been incurred that would only show later if the engine =
continued=20
use.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>I'm asking in=20
earnest, I really would like to learn here.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>Andy</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D151211618-06042004><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] <B>On =
Behalf Of=20
  </B>Donald Royer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:07 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:Follow up on my bad=20
  landing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <P>
  <DIV>I promised more information on my bad landing last week as soon =
as I had=20
  more information. After thinking more about what happened and talking =
to=20
  several eye witnesses who between them saw all of the incident, I can =
say with=20
  some confidence exactly what happened.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>First , if was not a gear collapse, it was a gear up landing. =
What=20
  initially confused the situation was when the plane can to a stop, the =
gear=20
  was out of the gear wells and resting on the ground. In addition the =
gear=20
  switch was in the down position. However, a pilot who was out walking =
his dog=20
  at the appropriate end of the runway and who saw the final approach =
and=20
  touchdown was quite sure that the gear was in the wells at the time of =

  touchdown. That information along with the information that I reported =
before=20
  that I was distracted enough that I really could not say whether I had =
two=20
  greens or not, but that I would in all probability have seen the red =
gear=20
  unsafe light if it had been on seems to lead to one conclusion.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The only scenario that I could come up with the fits everything =
is the=20
  following. I put the gear switch down at the appropriate time but then =
nothing=20
  happened. This possibility has been discussed here on the Reflector =
before and=20
  in fact I have installed the little circuit to bypass the down =
pressure switch=20
  to get out of this condition. Then, the shock of the landing jarred =
the system=20
  out or the hang up and the gear tried to extend as I was sliding down =
the=20
  runway.&nbsp;This conclusion is also supported by the fact that I =
heard the=20
  gear horn at about ten feet. My simultaneous reaction was to think =
that the=20
  gear warning system was malfunctioning again as it had several times =
recently,=20
  and before I got around to considering that it might be telling me the =
truth=20
  this time, I was on the ground.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I put the cause to be a combination of a known flaw in the system =
and=20
  pilot error. I simply did not notice that the gear had not extended =
when it=20
  should have. In my defense, I was distracted at the time, it was late=20
  afternoon and the sun&nbsp; was in my eyes and the air was very bumpy. =
In=20
  addition, I was probably paying too much attention to the head =
temperatures.=20
  The purpose of the flight was to check some changes in the air =
baffling. I can=20
  assure you that never again will I land without being sure that I have =
two=20
  greens regardless of any other circumstances.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>It could have been worse, there was remarkably little damage and =
the FAA=20
  didn't get involved. A number of airport people helped me get the =
plane off of=20
  the runway and into&nbsp;my locked hangar as soon as possible. The =
only damage=20
  was the expected scraped belly, a little nonstructural damage to one =
wing tip,=20
  and over course, the prop.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>There has been a lot of bad mouthing of MT going on here right =
now, but=20
  my prop got abraded down to about half of it's original diameter =
without=20
  damaging either the engine or the prop hub. That is going to save me =
much=20
  money.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The following is more speculative. I may have uncovered at least =
one=20
  cause of the down pressure switch hang up. We were having one of our =
down=20
  slope wind situations where the air temperature can jump twenty to =
thirty=20
  degrees in an hour or so, and the plane in the hangar was probably at =
least=20
  30-35 degrees cooler than it was in flight. With that in mind, I tried =
a=20
  little experiment this morning. I went out to the hangar when the =
temperature=20
  was about 35 degrees. With the plane up on jacks, I retracted the gear =
and=20
  left it up while I warmed the hangar as fast as I could with a propane =
heater=20
  making sure that the warm air was circulated through the nose =
compartment and=20
  the cabin of the&nbsp; plane. When the temperature in the hangar =
reached 80=20
  degrees, I tried to lower the gear "BINGO" it was hung up. This is =
only one=20
  data point and it may not be reproducible, but it worked once for =
me.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Donald Royer</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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