REFLECTOR:Matco ~ Cleveland Stopping - was Gear Up
Jim Sower
reflector@tvbf.org
Sun, 04 Apr 2004 22:53:27 -0500
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<... I really have to hit the Matco brakes hard and hit the numbers ...>
Just for the hell of it, idle your engine down to about 500 rpm. I know it will run
rough as a cob at that low an rpm, but you can do all your ground ops off idle a few
hundred rpm. See if doing this doesn't A) make it easier to plant it on the
numbers; B) make it easier to make that short turnoff
Some time, when there's no significant traffic, shut the engine down right before
flare, land the airplane, and just let it roll free - no brakes at all. I'll bet you
cannot MAKE it roll 3000'. I know I could just barely make a turnoff about 2300' down
the runway when I had a dead stick landing once. Cleared the foul line, but just
barely.
A real eye opener. Try it and report back .... Jim S.
Fred Marconi wrote:
> Chuck:
>
> You are right about touch. I have been able to get to stop on 2500' but I
> really have to hit the Matco brakes hard and hit the numbers No doubt about
> the heat and they do fade a lot. On one of my fast taxi tests to check for
> an engine oil leak the brakes heated my copilot side leg and it changed the
> camber 2 degrees, enough to have my main get stuck on the inboard strake
> lip. Fortunatelly a couple of hard liks brought the gear down. Matco's
> are an issue, with all the things one needs to be attentive to the one thing
> we do not need to worry about is damaging the gear leg because of heat. So
> I am glad to see you have such a good experience with these Clevelands.
> Will braking too hard not damage the gear as well by twisting the gear leg
> outboard?
>
> I only have 25 hours on my bird and did consider the Clevelands. Can you
> use the same wheel and axel that you used with the Matco's. Do you need to
> do any major modifications.
>
> Fred
> N244FM
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:52 PM
> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Gear Up
>
> > John,
> > A developed touch and a runway a mile and half long does reduce the
> braking
> > needs markedly. The other advantage of Clevelands, besides not having
> to
> > change pads with every oil change, is if you go into a really short
> strip,
> > (or we misjudge wind or speed on a middling length one) its comforting
> to
> > know that if you need to stand on the brakes, there'll be something
> there.
> >
> > I suspect the brakes are much less an issue on the smaller Vs with
> smaller
> > engines, which enjoy both somewhat slower touchdowns and less mass to
> stop.
> > At any rate, I have for sale several near-new Matco pads that are
> perfect,
> > except for the cracks.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On
> > Behalf Of John Dibble
> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:35 PM
> > To: reflector@tvbf.org
> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Gear Up
> >
> >
> > Chuck,
> > That is interesting. Now that I've learned how to fly my V, I think the
> > Matcos are
> > adequate (for my SRG anyway). I guess it's all about surviving the
> first
> > few dozen
> > hours.
> > John
> >
> > Chuck Jensen wrote:
> >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Good thinkin' but that's not the way it seems to work. My Matcos used
> to
> > > get too-hot-to-handle after a couple summer landings and taxing in a
> > > weather-vaning crosswind. After switching to the Clevelands (which
> > > incidentally, have a good thermal isolation board to protect the gear
> leg)
> > > and their greater braking authority, the calipers hardly get warm to
> the
> > > touch and I can't feel any heat being transmitted to the gear leg.
> > >
> > > I never understood why Matcos got so hot. The heat in supposed to be
> > caused
> > > by absorption of energy during braking. I always got lots of heat but
> not
> > > much braking.
> > >
> > > Chuck
> > > XLRG with heavy 300
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit
> http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> > Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
> user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
> Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
> Check old archives: http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html
--
Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
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<... I really have to hit the Matco brakes hard and hit the numbers
....>
<p>Just for the hell of it, idle your engine down to about 500 rpm.
I know it will run rough as a cob at that low an rpm, but you can do all
your ground ops off idle a few hundred rpm. See if doing this doesn't
A) make it easier to plant it on the numbers; B) make it easier
to make that short turnoff
<p>Some time, when there's no significant traffic, shut the engine down
right before flare, land the airplane, and just let it roll free - no brakes
at all. I'll bet you <b>cannot MAKE it roll 3000'</b>. I know
I could just barely make a turnoff about 2300' down the runway when I had
a dead stick landing once. Cleared the foul line, but just barely.
<p>A real eye opener. Try it and report back .... Jim S.
<p>Fred Marconi wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> Chuck:
<p> You are right about touch. I have been able to get to stop
on 2500' but I
<br>really have to hit the Matco brakes hard and hit the numbers
No doubt about
<br>the heat and they do fade a lot. On one of my fast taxi tests
to check for
<br>an engine oil leak the brakes heated my copilot side leg and it changed
the
<br>camber 2 degrees, enough to have my main get stuck on the inboard strake
<br>lip. Fortunatelly a couple of hard liks brought the gear down.
Matco's
<br>are an issue, with all the things one needs to be attentive to the
one thing
<br>we do not need to worry about is damaging the gear leg because of heat.
So
<br>I am glad to see you have such a good experience with these Clevelands.
<br>Will braking too hard not damage the gear as well by twisting the gear
leg
<br>outboard?
<p> I only have 25 hours on my bird and did consider the Clevelands.
Can you
<br>use the same wheel and axel that you used with the Matco's. Do
you need to
<br>do any major modifications.
<p> Fred
<br> N244FM
<p> ----- Original Message -----
<br> From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
<br> To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
<br> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:52 PM
<br> Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Gear Up
<p> > John,
<br> > A developed touch and a runway a mile and half long does reduce
the
<br>braking
<br> > needs markedly. The other advantage of Clevelands, besides
not having
<br>to
<br> > change pads with every oil change, is if you go into a really
short
<br>strip,
<br> > (or we misjudge wind or speed on a middling length one) its
comforting
<br>to
<br> > know that if you need to stand on the brakes, there'll be
something
<br>there.
<br> >
<br> > I suspect the brakes are much less an issue on the smaller
Vs with
<br>smaller
<br> > engines, which enjoy both somewhat slower touchdowns and less
mass to
<br>stop.
<br> > At any rate, I have for sale several near-new Matco pads that
are
<br>perfect,
<br> > except for the cracks.
<br> >
<br> > Chuck
<br> >
<br> > -----Original Message-----
<br> > From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [<a href="mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org">mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org</a>]On
<br> > Behalf Of John Dibble
<br> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:35 PM
<br> > To: reflector@tvbf.org
<br> > Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Gear Up
<br> >
<br> >
<br> > Chuck,
<br> > That is interesting. Now that I've learned how to fly
my V, I think the
<br> > Matcos are
<br> > adequate (for my SRG anyway). I guess it's all about
surviving the
<br>first
<br> > few dozen
<br> > hours.
<br> > John
<br> >
<br> > Chuck Jensen wrote:
<br> >
<br> > > John,
<br> > >
<br> > > Good thinkin' but that's not the way it seems to work.
My Matcos used
<br>to
<br> > > get too-hot-to-handle after a couple summer landings and
taxing in a
<br> > > weather-vaning crosswind. After switching to the Clevelands
(which
<br> > > incidentally, have a good thermal isolation board to protect
the gear
<br>leg)
<br> > > and their greater braking authority, the calipers hardly
get warm to
<br>the
<br> > > touch and I can't feel any heat being transmitted to the
gear leg.
<br> > >
<br> > > I never understood why Matcos got so hot. The heat
in supposed to be
<br> > caused
<br> > > by absorption of energy during braking. I always got
lots of heat but
<br>not
<br> > > much braking.
<br> > >
<br> > > Chuck
<br> > > XLRG with heavy 300
<br> > >
<br> >
<br> >
<br> > _______________________________________________
<br> > To change your email address, visit
<br> > <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector">http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</a>
<br> >
<br> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
<br> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
<br> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
<br> > Check old archives: <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html">http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</a>
<br> > _______________________________________________
<br> > To change your email address, visit
<br><a href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector">http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</a>
<br> >
<br> > Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
<br> > user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
<br> > Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
<br> > Check old archives: <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html">http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</a>
<p>_______________________________________________
<br>To change your email address, visit <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector">http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</a>
<p>Visit the gallery! www.tvbf.org/gallery
<br>user:pw = tvbf:jamaicangoose
<br>Check new archives: www.tvbf.org/pipermail
<br>Check old archives: <a href="http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html">http://www.tvbf.org/archives/velocity/maillist.html</a></blockquote>
<p>--
<br>Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything
<br>Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
<br>Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
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