REFLECTOR:V8 Vacuum system
Al Gietzen
reflector@tvbf.org
Sat, 8 Nov 2003 14:21:34 -0800
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Yo; Jim!
< The main thing that fails is the drive belt>
And even those have gotten pretty good. The alternator belts on my van
have been there for 155,000 miles and 12 years and still fine. (And
that's the second set - I changed the first ones had 100,000 mile just
for the heck of it; and keep them as backup)
Al
I think it's worth examining the whole issue and looking at why things
are the way they are ...
<... If you are not comfortable with solid state ...>
You might be well advised to examine what that (the discomfort AND the
technology) is all about.
<... RC Allen makes electric gyros ...>
... have all the delicate, wearing, precessing moving parts of the
vacuum units ...
<... easier to design a redundant electrical system ...>
Actually, the alternators and batteries available these days are so
reliable that if either one is backed up, you have a basically
bulletproof system. Redundant batteries are an easy and inexpensive
solution. in the worst case scenario, an alternator failure becomes a
"blip" since you have an hour or an hour or two to get to a suitable
landing field and then repairs are as close as the nearest NAPA store.
<... than redundant vacuum ...>
Let's remember the reason we HAVE [notoriously expensive and unreliable]
vacuum systems in the first place. In the olden days (30s, 40s and 50s)
generators were so unreliable, what with high wear brushes, delicate
stators and failure prone armature windings, that they HAD to be backed
up. We ended up with magneto ignition and vacuum driven instruments -
neither of which were notably more reliable than the generators they
backed up. The objective being to be able to survive a failure. And
fail they did. The expected life of mags and vacuum pumps ranges from
500 to 1000 hrs with frequent sporadic early failures. Alternators OTOH
are practically bullet proof. The main thing that fails is the drive
belt. Batteries also have come a long way in the 60 years since
generators and rudimentary batteries compelled the development of vacuum
driven instruments and mag ignition.
I think solid state EVERYTHING and a bullet proof electrical system is
the rational way to go ... Jim S.
Brian Michalk wrote:
I agree with electrical. If you are not comfortable with solid state,
RC Allen makes electric gyros for sale at aircraft spruce.Much easier to
design a redundant electrical system than redundant vacuum. Brian
Michalk <http://www.michalk.com <http://www.michalk.com/> >
Life is what you make of it ... never wish you had done something.
Aviator, experimental aircraft builder, motorcyclist, SCUBA diver
musician, home-brewer, entrepreneur and barely single
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On
Behalf Of Wayne
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 9:56 PM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:V8 Vacuum system
Go solid state. I built a bracket for a vacuum pump on my PSRU and
even had a retractable vacuum venturi.They sucked. I removed them both
for an electric gyro with a palm unit as a backup. Why put unreliable
dinosaur parts on a new plane?Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: velocityxlfg <mailto:velocityxl@fastmail.fm>
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 8:47 AM
Subject: REFLECTOR:V8 Vacuum system
Is there any one out there who put a vacuum systemon an auto
conversion? I have a Chevy V8installed and would like some ideas on how
other peopleattacked the Vacuum system. I thought of a electricaldriven
vacuum pump but do not know how muchvacuum I need to pull. I bought a
engine driven aircraft pump. But with it I need to find out what Rpm it
needs to be run at? Where it mount it ?And how I might install it.Or
should I just give up on the vacuum system all to gertherand go all
electrical. Thank you Wise onesRon
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Yo; =
Jim!</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> The main thing that fails is the drive =
belt></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>And =
even those
have gotten pretty good. The alternator belts on my van have been =
there
for 155,000 miles and 12 years and still fine. (And that’s =
the
second set – I changed the first ones had 100,000 mile just for =
the heck
of it; and keep them as backup)</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>Al</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblue
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I think it's worth examining the whole issue =
and
looking at why things are the way they are ... <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue'><... If you are not comfortable with =
solid
state ...></span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>You might be well advised to examine what that (the
discomfort AND the technology) is all about.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'><... RC Allen makes electric gyros =
...></span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>... have all the delicate, wearing, precessing moving =
parts
of the vacuum units ...</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:blue'><... easier to design a redundant electrical
system ...></span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>Actually, the alternators and batteries available =
these days
are so reliable that if either one is backed up, you have a basically
bulletproof system. Redundant batteries are an easy and =
inexpensive
solution. in the worst case scenario, an alternator failure =
becomes a
"blip" since you have an hour or an hour or two to get to a =
suitable
landing field and then repairs are as close as the nearest =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>NAPA</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> =
store.</span></font> </p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><... than =
redundant
vacuum ...></span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black'>Let's remember the reason we HAVE [notoriously =
expensive and
unreliable] vacuum systems in the first place. In the olden days =
(30s,
40s and 50s) generators were so unreliable, what with high wear brushes,
delicate stators and failure prone armature windings, that they HAD to =
be
backed up. We ended up with magneto ignition and vacuum driven
instruments - neither of which were notably more reliable than the =
generators
they backed up. The objective being to be able to survive a
failure. And fail they did. The expected life of mags and =
vacuum
pumps ranges from 500 to 1000 hrs with frequent sporadic early =
failures.
Alternators OTOH are practically bullet proof. The main thing that =
fails
is the drive belt. Batteries also have come a long way in the 60 =
years
since generators and rudimentary batteries compelled the development of =
vacuum
driven instruments and mag ignition.</span></font> </p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I think solid =
state
EVERYTHING and a bullet proof electrical system is the rational way to =
go ...
Jim S.</span></font> </p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Brian Michalk wrote: </span></font></p>
<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' TYPE=3DCITE>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I agree with
electrical. If you are not comfortable with solid state, RC Allen =
makes
electric gyros for sale at aircraft spruce.Much easier to design a =
redundant
electrical system than redundant vacuum.</span></font> <font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'> Brian Michalk <<a
href=3D"http://www.michalk.com/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.michalk.com</a>></span></font>
<br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Life is what you make of =
it ...
never wish you had done something.</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>Aviator, experimental =
aircraft
builder, motorcyclist, SCUBA diver</span></font> <br>
<font size=3D2><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>musician, home-brewer, =
entrepreneur
and barely single</span></font> <br>
</p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----</span></font>
<br>
<b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> reflector-admin@tvbf.org =
[<a
href=3D"mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org">mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org<=
/a>]<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Wayne</span></font> =
<br>
<b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Friday, November 07, 2003 =
9:56 PM</span></font>
<br>
<b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
reflector@tvbf.org</span></font> <br>
<b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Re: REFLECTOR:V8 Vacuum =
system</span></font>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Go solid state. I =
built a
bracket for a vacuum pump on my PSRU and even had a retractable =
vacuum
venturi.They sucked. I removed them both for an electric gyro with =
a palm
unit as a backup. Why put unreliable dinosaur parts on a new =
plane?Wayne</span></font>
</p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message =
-----</span></font></p>
</div>
<div style=3D'font-color:black'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:velocityxl@fastmail.fm" =
title=3D"velocityxl@fastmail.fm">velocityxlfg</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span><=
/font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org" =
title=3D"reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span=
></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday,
October 20, 2003 8:47 AM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</s=
pan></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
REFLECTOR:V8 Vacuum system</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is there any one out there =
who put a
vacuum systemon an auto conversion? I have a Chevy V8installed and would =
like
some ideas on how other peopleattacked the Vacuum system. I thought of a
electricaldriven vacuum pump but do not know how muchvacuum I need to =
pull. I
bought a engine driven aircraft pump. But with it I need to find out =
what
Rpm it needs to be run at? Where it mount it ?And how I might =
install
it.Or should I just give up on the vacuum system all to gertherand go =
all
electrical.</span></font> <font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Thank you Wise onesRon</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>-- <br>
Jim Sower <br>
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5 <br>
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T <br>
</span></font></p>
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