REFLECTOR:Re: Insurance Woes

Robin Ream reflector@tvbf.org
Wed, 7 May 2003 21:41:06 -0500


    Do you realize that the biggest part of the general aviation fleet is
over 20 years old, and that means the overpriced cans have been paid for at
least twice?  Once to the bank, another time to the insurance companies over
the 20 year period, and for a twenty year old certified, probably nearly a
third time in inflated and overpriced maintenance under the dear FAA !  ---- 
I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to what makes sense.  That's why
the majority of pilots out there are flying with no insurance whatsoever.
Maybe they've just said to hell with it, and maybe their attorney's have
recommended other strategies, I don't know.  You start asking the guys who
have older airplanes that are paid for though, and you'll soon realize more
don't bother to carry insurance than do.    If you're financed, you pretty
much screwed because the bank requires a policy, but if you've self financed
and paid for the airplane as you built it you've got a lot more options to
consider.  Check with a good attorney, you might be surprised.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Tvedte" <JohnT@comp-sol.com>
To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 9:12 PM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Re: Insurance Woes


> Just wondering how to get the 0.6% non-flight - I called Falcon for
builders insurance and they are quoting 1% per thousand  - 85K hull would
run 850 as an example.
>
> I think Andy mentioned $550/year - what "value"?
>
> Bob mentioned 60K for 600 - which is 1%.
>
> BTW- I was not asked if I had an instrument rating, total hours of PIC
time, or any other pilot related questions.....
>
> Although second hand, a friend mentioned that he was checking out how much
a 100K Piper Commanche would cost him yearly to insure - $4500 - or 4.5%
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Scott Derrick [mailto:scott@tnstaafl.net]
> Sent: Wed 5/7/2003 2:45 PM
> To: reflector@tvbf.org
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Re: Insurance Woes
>
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> Nice dissertation on many of he ins and outs of aircraft insurance.
>
> My $0.02
>
> > 2.    Premiums:  There's little choice that the premiums start out high;
> > in the 4%-5% range.  While high, this is competitive with most current
> > commercial rates, if you can get them.  For those that are getting a low
> > commercial rate presently, our hats off to you; and we'll see you next
year
> > when you come to the Coop hat in hand.  The final premium target would
be
> > 1%-2%.
>
> No this is not competitive.  Avemco wanted to charge me 5% for hull
> which I found unacceptable.  It would pay anybody to self insure at that
>   cost.  Put the money in a CD and in 10 years you've bought yourself
> another Velocity.
>
> Falcon would charge me 1.7% for a 85K hull value in-flight or 0.6% for
> non-flight.
>
> Unless you can get close to competitive I don't think your going to get
> enough business to make it viable.
>
> > 4.    Pilot Flight Checks:  Absolutely.  Not only for insurance's sake,
> > but our own.  Perhaps we'd require the BFR be done with a Velocity
approved
> > CFI.  When BFRs were first implement, I was a little skeptical about
more
> > "big brother."  The reality is, its a very good program.  We all get a
> > little complacent and form less than desirable habits.  Relearning once
> > every two years is small price to pay to save on insurance and your
life.
>
> I don't see any real advantage and would consider this a big negative.
> I can see a factory approved checkout of the plane and pilot for the
> initial policy but after that its a waste.
>
> > 5.    Plane Inspections:  Absolutely.  You and I know our workmanship is
> > great but can we trust that other guy.  The Factory and Inspectors know
> > every trick, tip and trap associated with the Velocity.  To have a
factory
> > approved inspection will save insurance claims and lives.
>
> Are you talking a first time inspection or recurring?  Recurring is a
> waste as I said above. There are thousands and thousands of more complex
> aircraft than ours flying that don't require a "Factory" annual for
> insurance.  Neither should ours.
>
>
> Scott
>
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