REFLECTOR:Off topic; People's sensitivities
Greg Poole
reflector@tvbf.org
Mon, 28 Jul 2003 09:49:26 +1000
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...Don't know what it is - perhaps the pressures and stresses of modern =
western society - that I have noticed makes quite a number of =
individuals hypersensitive to what might be construed as =
criticism...albeit unintended criticism sometimes often expressed in a =
vein for humorous or jocular effect.
This is quite a pity, as more often than not, the spectacle that results =
can be eminently entertaining making for some of the really great =
moments in reading this list - a list that IS (oops! ...I'm yelling!) =
relatively tame and civilised compared to some other forums that I have =
chosen to leave - after observing serious "slinging" that went on.
I will never forget (...I'm still wiping the tears of mirth from my =
eyes!!) Milt's brief request of Scott D. asking him why he doesn't come =
out and say what he really means after Scott (in his inimitable style) =
bluntly analysed (in earthy language) the content of Velocity Views. =
....let there be more moments like this!
So keep it light everybody, give others the space for doubt about their =
intent, or the possibility that they are simply having a "bad hair day".
Best from DownUnder
Greg.
From: Ronnie Brown=20
To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
Alex,
Well, I will say sometimes you have to have tough skin to contribute =
to this list - but on the other hand this list is much more civil than =
most! =20
I can't speak for the individual but I have talked with several folks =
who felt belittled, berated, and generally shot down when they put their =
suggestion on the Reflector. =20
We should explain why we don't agree with someone, not shoot them =
down. There are NO perfect airplanes nor perfect systems. The nice =
thing about homebuilts is that we get to build them pretty much the way =
we want. And we get to keep improving them. That's where this list =
helps us all!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Alexander Balic=20
To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
No offense to you Ronnie or your friend, but I don't understand the =
logic about why he doesn't want to post on the reflector- is he afraid =
that someone will chastise him for something he might say? or is he =
"punishing" us for a few bad comments that are posted here on occasion? =
Doesn't make sense to me personally- I appreciate his input (through =
you) and actually might go borrow one of those devices, so good for you =
for forwarding it to the group, and I'm sorry that your friend doesn't =
want to talk to the rest of us anymore- did he take his ball and go home =
when he was a kid? (please don't be offended- that was just a joke) as =
always, ALL input is appreciated.
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:10 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
I'm forwarding this note from a lurker who has quit writing to the =
Reflector because of some bad manners from some of our members. He is =
not the only one that lurks and doesn't write for this very reason. As =
you can see, here's some great information but you wouldn't have gotten =
it otherwise.
So watch your manners and etiquette! We need all of the input we =
can get to make our V's as safe and enjoyable as they can be! Even bad =
ideas spark great discussions and information exchange!!!!!
See you at Oshkosh!
Ronnie=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ronnie Brown=20
To: (omitted at author's request)
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Testing fuel tanks
That sounds like the trick for sure! What kind of smoke is used?
And I checked my gas caps yesterday. Just hooked a 3/8" nylon =
tube to the vent, unloaded about 3-4 lung fulls of air into the tanks, =
put soap suds on the caps and found nothing. Took all of 15 minutes to =
do it. =20
I think Don White's idea of checking fuel levels every 30 minutes =
while in flight is a super idea (I have a timer set to do the same =
thing).
My header tank has a Westach capacitance sender in it and it =
always says the header tank is full. As it should be with 3/8" vent =
lines, sloping upwards to a common header then vented out the bottom =
with the slash cut toward the front to build pressure - not vacuum in =
the vent and tank system. As some else mentioned, there's not a whole =
lot of fuel head that we are working with. =20
I have seen oil and water lines trap air and impede liquid flow, =
but a few bumps or some alternate rudder inputs ought to break these =
loose. The fuel lines should slope downward from the strakes, which =
will help avoid this situation.
I'm going to resend your note (without your name) to the =
reflector. Folks should know about the leak checker available at their =
local Toyota dealer.
See ya
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: DELETED BY AUTHOR'S REQUEST
To: romott@adelphia.net=20
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 8:08 PM
Subject: Testing fuel tanks
Hi Ronnie,
Been watching the continuing thread about pressure testing fuel =
tanks. Down at the Toyota dealership, we have a neat tool for diagnosing =
evaporative fuel system leaks in cars. It is a flow gauge type unit that =
can be calibrated to sense a leak as small as .010" with less than 1 psi =
pressure. On top of that, it has the ability to inject smoke into the =
tank to make any leak readily apparent. Just the other day I used it to =
find a fuel filler cap that would seal in one direction but when rotated =
180 deg, would allow pressure to escape. I had performed a pressure test =
from an access port at the engine area and found that the system would =
hold 775mmHg. I then removed the cap to release the pressure and then =
reinstalled the cap. I road tested the car monitoring the fuel pressure =
sensor and found that the tank would not build pressure beyond atm of =
761mmHg.
That would have been hard to find without the smoke.
Maybe some of the builders could suck up to a tech with a =
six-pack abd get their neighborhood wrench to bring a tester home.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>...Don't know what it =
is - perhaps=20
the pressures and stresses of modern western society - that I have =
noticed makes=20
quite a number of individuals hypersensitive to what might be construed =
as=20
criticism...albeit unintended criticism sometimes often expressed in a =
vein for=20
humorous or jocular effect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>This is quite a pity, =
as more often=20
than not, the spectacle that results can be eminently entertaining =
making for=20
some of the really great moments in reading this list - a =
list=20
that IS (oops! ...I'm yelling!) relatively tame and =
civilised=20
compared to some other forums that I have chosen to leave - after =
observing=20
serious "slinging" that went on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>I will never forget =
(...I'm still=20
wiping the tears of mirth from my eyes!!) Milt's =
brief request of=20
Scott D. asking him why he doesn't come out and say what he really means =
after=20
Scott (in his inimitable style) bluntly analysed (in earthy =
language) the=20
content of Velocity Views. ....let there be more moments like =
this!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>So keep it =
light everybody,=20
give others the space for doubt about their intent, or =
the possibility that=20
they are simply having a "bad hair day".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>Best from =
DownUnder</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2>Greg.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dromott@adelphia.net=20
href=3D"mailto:romott@adelphia.net">Ronnie Brown</A> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 28, 2003 =
9:29 AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:Fw: =
Testing fuel=20
tanks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Alex,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Well, I will say sometimes you have to have tough =
skin to=20
contribute to this list - but on the other hand this list is much =
more=20
civil than most! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can't speak for the individual but I have talked =
with=20
several folks who felt belittled, berated, and generally shot down =
when they=20
put their suggestion on the Reflector. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>We should explain why we don't agree with someone, =
not shoot=20
them down. There are NO perfect airplanes nor perfect =
systems. The=20
nice thing about homebuilts is that we get to build them pretty much =
the way=20
we want. And we get to keep improving them. That's where =
this list=20
helps us all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dalex157@direcway.com =
href=3D"mailto:alex157@direcway.com">Alexander=20
Balic</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 =
10:31=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Fw: =
Testing fuel=20
tanks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D936402214-27072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No=20
offense to you Ronnie or your friend, but I don't understand the =
logic about=20
why he doesn't want to post on the reflector- is he afraid that =
someone will=20
chastise him for something he might say? or is he "punishing" us for =
a few=20
bad comments that are posted here on occasion? Doesn't make =
sense to=20
me personally- I appreciate his input (through you) and =
actually might=20
go borrow one of those devices, so good for you for forwarding it to =
the=20
group, and I'm sorry that your friend doesn't want to talk to the =
rest of us=20
anymore- did he take his ball and go home when he was a kid? (please =
don't=20
be offended- that was just a joke) as always, ALL input is=20
appreciated.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D936402214-27072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D936402214-27072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Alex</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie=20
Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:10 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel=20
tanks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm forwarding this note from a lurker who has =
quit=20
writing to the Reflector because of some bad manners from some of =
our=20
members. He is not the only one that lurks and doesn't =
write=20
for this very reason. As you can see, here's some great =
information=20
but you wouldn't have gotten it otherwise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So watch your manners and etiquette! We =
need all=20
of the input we can get to make our V's as safe and enjoyable as =
they can=20
be! Even bad ideas spark great discussions and information=20
exchange!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>See you at Oshkosh!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> =
<A=20
title=3Dromott@adelphia.net =
href=3D"mailto:romott@adelphia.net">Ronnie=20
Brown</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> (omitted at author's request)</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Testing fuel tanks</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That sounds like the trick for sure! =
What kind of=20
smoke is used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>And I checked my gas caps yesterday. =
Just hooked a=20
3/8" nylon tube to the vent, unloaded about 3-4 lung fulls of =
air=20
into the tanks, put soap suds on the caps and found nothing. =
Took=20
all of 15 minutes to do it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think Don White's idea of checking fuel =
levels every=20
30 minutes while in flight is a super idea (I have a timer set to =
do the=20
same thing).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My header tank has a Westach capacitance =
sender in it=20
and it always says the header tank is full. As it =
should be=20
with 3/8" vent lines, sloping upwards to a common header then =
vented out=20
the bottom with the slash cut toward the front to build pressure - =
not=20
vacuum in the vent and tank system. As some else mentioned, =
there's=20
not a whole lot of fuel head that we are working with. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have seen oil and water lines trap air and =
impede=20
liquid flow, but a few bumps or some alternate rudder inputs ought =
to=20
break these loose. The fuel lines should slope downward from =
the=20
strakes, which will help avoid this situation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm going to resend your note (without your =
name) to the=20
reflector. Folks should know about the leak checker =
available at=20
their local Toyota dealer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>See ya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:=20
DELETED BY AUTHOR'S REQUEST</B></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>To:</B>=20
<A title=3Dromott@adelphia.net=20
href=3D"mailto:romott@adelphia.net">romott@adelphia.net</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 26, =
2003 8:08=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Testing fuel =
tanks</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Ronnie,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Been watching the continuing thread about pressure testing =
fuel=20
tanks. Down at the Toyota dealership, we have a neat tool for =
diagnosing=20
evaporative fuel system leaks in cars. It is a flow gauge type =
unit that=20
can be calibrated to sense a leak as small as .010" with less =
than 1 psi=20
pressure. On top of that, it has the ability to inject smoke =
into the=20
tank to make any leak readily apparent. Just the other day I =
used it to=20
find a fuel filler cap that would seal in one direction but when =
rotated=20
180 deg, would allow pressure to escape. I had performed a =
pressure test=20
from an access port at the engine area and found that the system =
would=20
hold 775mmHg. I then removed the cap to release the pressure and =
then=20
reinstalled the cap. I road tested the car monitoring the fuel =
pressure=20
sensor and found that the tank would not build pressure beyond =
atm of=20
761mmHg.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>That would have been hard to find without the smoke.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Maybe some of the builders could suck up to a tech with a =
six-pack=20
abd get their neighborhood wrench to bring a tester home.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOC=
KQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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