REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
Ronnie Brown
reflector@tvbf.org
Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:29:45 -0400
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Alex,
Well, I will say sometimes you have to have tough skin to contribute to =
this list - but on the other hand this list is much more civil than =
most! =20
I can't speak for the individual but I have talked with several folks =
who felt belittled, berated, and generally shot down when they put their =
suggestion on the Reflector. =20
We should explain why we don't agree with someone, not shoot them down. =
There are NO perfect airplanes nor perfect systems. The nice thing =
about homebuilts is that we get to build them pretty much the way we =
want. And we get to keep improving them. That's where this list helps =
us all!
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Alexander Balic=20
To: reflector@tvbf.org=20
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
No offense to you Ronnie or your friend, but I don't understand the =
logic about why he doesn't want to post on the reflector- is he afraid =
that someone will chastise him for something he might say? or is he =
"punishing" us for a few bad comments that are posted here on occasion? =
Doesn't make sense to me personally- I appreciate his input (through =
you) and actually might go borrow one of those devices, so good for you =
for forwarding it to the group, and I'm sorry that your friend doesn't =
want to talk to the rest of us anymore- did he take his ball and go home =
when he was a kid? (please don't be offended- that was just a joke) as =
always, ALL input is appreciated.
Alex
-----Original Message-----
From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]On =
Behalf Of Ronnie Brown
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:10 AM
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Subject: REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel tanks
I'm forwarding this note from a lurker who has quit writing to the =
Reflector because of some bad manners from some of our members. He is =
not the only one that lurks and doesn't write for this very reason. As =
you can see, here's some great information but you wouldn't have gotten =
it otherwise.
So watch your manners and etiquette! We need all of the input we =
can get to make our V's as safe and enjoyable as they can be! Even bad =
ideas spark great discussions and information exchange!!!!!
See you at Oshkosh!
Ronnie=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ronnie Brown=20
To: (omitted at author's request)
Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Testing fuel tanks
That sounds like the trick for sure! What kind of smoke is used?
And I checked my gas caps yesterday. Just hooked a 3/8" nylon tube =
to the vent, unloaded about 3-4 lung fulls of air into the tanks, put =
soap suds on the caps and found nothing. Took all of 15 minutes to do =
it. =20
I think Don White's idea of checking fuel levels every 30 minutes =
while in flight is a super idea (I have a timer set to do the same =
thing).
My header tank has a Westach capacitance sender in it and it always =
says the header tank is full. As it should be with 3/8" vent lines, =
sloping upwards to a common header then vented out the bottom with the =
slash cut toward the front to build pressure - not vacuum in the vent =
and tank system. As some else mentioned, there's not a whole lot of =
fuel head that we are working with. =20
I have seen oil and water lines trap air and impede liquid flow, but =
a few bumps or some alternate rudder inputs ought to break these loose. =
The fuel lines should slope downward from the strakes, which will help =
avoid this situation.
I'm going to resend your note (without your name) to the reflector. =
Folks should know about the leak checker available at their local Toyota =
dealer.
See ya
Ronnie
----- Original Message -----=20
From: DELETED BY AUTHOR'S REQUEST
To: romott@adelphia.net=20
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 8:08 PM
Subject: Testing fuel tanks
Hi Ronnie,
Been watching the continuing thread about pressure testing fuel =
tanks. Down at the Toyota dealership, we have a neat tool for diagnosing =
evaporative fuel system leaks in cars. It is a flow gauge type unit that =
can be calibrated to sense a leak as small as .010" with less than 1 psi =
pressure. On top of that, it has the ability to inject smoke into the =
tank to make any leak readily apparent. Just the other day I used it to =
find a fuel filler cap that would seal in one direction but when rotated =
180 deg, would allow pressure to escape. I had performed a pressure test =
from an access port at the engine area and found that the system would =
hold 775mmHg. I then removed the cap to release the pressure and then =
reinstalled the cap. I road tested the car monitoring the fuel pressure =
sensor and found that the tank would not build pressure beyond atm of =
761mmHg.
That would have been hard to find without the smoke.
Maybe some of the builders could suck up to a tech with a six-pack =
abd get their neighborhood wrench to bring a tester home.
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Alex,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Well, I will say sometimes you have to have tough =
skin to=20
contribute to this list - but on the other hand this list is much =
more=20
civil than most! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can't speak for the individual but I have talked =
with=20
several folks who felt belittled, berated, and generally shot down when =
they put=20
their suggestion on the Reflector. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>We should explain why we don't agree with someone, =
not shoot=20
them down. There are NO perfect airplanes nor perfect =
systems. The=20
nice thing about homebuilts is that we get to build them pretty much the =
way we=20
want. And we get to keep improving them. That's where this =
list=20
helps us all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dalex157@direcway.com =
href=3D"mailto:alex157@direcway.com">Alexander=20
Balic</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dreflector@tvbf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 =
10:31=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: REFLECTOR:Fw: =
Testing fuel=20
tanks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D936402214-27072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>No=20
offense to you Ronnie or your friend, but I don't understand the logic =
about=20
why he doesn't want to post on the reflector- is he afraid that =
someone will=20
chastise him for something he might say? or is he "punishing" us for a =
few bad=20
comments that are posted here on occasion? Doesn't make sense to =
me=20
personally- I appreciate his input (through you) and actually =
might go=20
borrow one of those devices, so good for you for forwarding it to the =
group,=20
and I'm sorry that your friend doesn't want to talk to the rest of us =
anymore-=20
did he take his ball and go home when he was a kid? (please don't be =
offended-=20
that was just a joke) as always, ALL input is =
appreciated.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D936402214-27072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D936402214-27072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Alex</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
reflector-admin@tvbf.org=20
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ronnie=20
Brown<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:10 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
reflector@tvbf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> REFLECTOR:Fw: Testing fuel=20
tanks<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm forwarding this note from a lurker who has =
quit=20
writing to the Reflector because of some bad manners from some of =
our=20
members. He is not the only one that lurks and doesn't =
write for=20
this very reason. As you can see, here's some great =
information but=20
you wouldn't have gotten it otherwise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So watch your manners and etiquette! We =
need all of=20
the input we can get to make our V's as safe and enjoyable as they =
can=20
be! Even bad ideas spark great discussions and information=20
exchange!!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>See you at Oshkosh!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> =
<A=20
title=3Dromott@adelphia.net =
href=3D"mailto:romott@adelphia.net">Ronnie Brown</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> (omitted at author's request)</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Testing fuel tanks</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>That sounds like the trick for sure! What =
kind of=20
smoke is used?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>And I checked my gas caps yesterday. Just =
hooked a=20
3/8" nylon tube to the vent, unloaded about 3-4 lung fulls of =
air into=20
the tanks, put soap suds on the caps and found nothing. Took =
all of 15=20
minutes to do it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I think Don White's idea of checking fuel levels =
every 30=20
minutes while in flight is a super idea (I have a timer set to do =
the same=20
thing).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>My header tank has a Westach capacitance sender =
in it and=20
it always says the header tank is full. As it should be =
with 3/8"=20
vent lines, sloping upwards to a common header then vented out the =
bottom=20
with the slash cut toward the front to build pressure - not vacuum =
in the=20
vent and tank system. As some else mentioned, there's not a =
whole lot=20
of fuel head that we are working with. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have seen oil and water lines trap air and =
impede liquid=20
flow, but a few bumps or some alternate rudder inputs ought to break =
these=20
loose. The fuel lines should slope downward from the strakes, =
which=20
will help avoid this situation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm going to resend your note (without your =
name) to the=20
reflector. Folks should know about the leak checker available =
at their=20
local Toyota dealer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>See ya</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ronnie</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:=20
DELETED BY AUTHOR'S REQUEST</B></DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>To:</B>=20
<A title=3Dromott@adelphia.net=20
href=3D"mailto:romott@adelphia.net">romott@adelphia.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 26, =
2003 8:08=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Testing fuel =
tanks</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Ronnie,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Been watching the continuing thread about pressure testing =
fuel=20
tanks. Down at the Toyota dealership, we have a neat tool for =
diagnosing=20
evaporative fuel system leaks in cars. It is a flow gauge type =
unit that=20
can be calibrated to sense a leak as small as .010" with less than =
1 psi=20
pressure. On top of that, it has the ability to inject smoke into =
the tank=20
to make any leak readily apparent. Just the other day I used it to =
find a=20
fuel filler cap that would seal in one direction but when rotated =
180 deg,=20
would allow pressure to escape. I had performed a pressure test =
from an=20
access port at the engine area and found that the system would =
hold=20
775mmHg. I then removed the cap to release the pressure and then=20
reinstalled the cap. I road tested the car monitoring the fuel =
pressure=20
sensor and found that the tank would not build pressure beyond atm =
of=20
761mmHg.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>That would have been hard to find without the smoke.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Maybe some of the builders could suck up to a tech with a =
six-pack=20
abd get their neighborhood wrench to bring a tester home.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY=
></HTML>
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