REFLECTOR:Yelling in my posts
Jeffrey Clough
reflector@tvbf.org
Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
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OOOpps...I apologize for that folks! Used to e-mailing the ol' folks back home......Jeff Clough
Greg Poole <gpoole@zeta.org.au> wrote:Hey Jeff,
Can you stop "yelling"? ...the big bold type posts are not that easy to scan compared to the usual.
Well - somebody had to say it!
Greg in Sydney.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Clough
To: reflector@tvbf.org
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection
I agree! I think we were just 'what if-ing' a SIMPLE fail safe way to rule out a false positive due to the points you mention...I certainly do not want to add a MORE complex system to monitor the original/simpler system of thermal fuses (which I plan to have). I certainly do not have the answer yet!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Derrick" <scott@tnstaafl.net>
To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection
> I wonder about fire detection equipment.
>
> You don't want false positives, that could be as bad or worse than a
> real fire. If I thought I was on fire I'm throwing the gear out, the
> speed brake, at cruise speed, pulling the engine back to idle and shock
> cooling that mother on the way down at one knot under VNE! TO find out
> later that you put your gear doors through the prop and then landed off
> field and removed the rest of the gear because of a false alarm... not good.
>
> I keep hearing ideas about multiple sensors, multiple cameras, MUX boxes
> and what not. My cynical nature says "Boy these folks have never owned
> and maintained a flying airplane before." It takes a major amount of
> time and money to keep a standard radio stack alive and well, now you
> want to add more?
>
> I realize that an engine fire is not as apparent in a pusher, but
> exactly how many airplanes have gone down because of a fire where people
> died? Would money and time be better spent on really clean and secure
> engine installations?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Fred Marconi wrote:
> > SOME TYPE OF TEMPERATURE MEASURING DEVICE WOULD BE THE SIMPLEST WITH A
> > WARNING SIGNAL WHEN THE TEMPERATURE GETS ABOVE A CERTAIN LEVEL. at THAT
> > POINT NO QUESTIONS ASKED CONSIDER THE HIGH TEMPERATURE A SIGN OF FIRE AND
> > LAND.
> >
> > FRED
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Hiroo Umeno" <humeno@microsoft.com>
> > To: <reflector@tvbf.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:45 PM
> > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection
> >
> >
> >
> >>Pat,
> >>
> >>CCDs are quite vulnerable to heat. You need to look at the data sheets
> >>for the operating temperature range. The heat inside the engine
> >>compartment is likely to far exceed the allowable heat rating of most
> >>low-cost CCDs.
> >>
> >>As for switcher, I am currently designing a 4:1 video mux based on
> >>LT1204 device and a PIC. I am intending to put this in the same housing
> >>with the LCD so that there are four buttons that corresponds to each
> >>cams I can switch through. The cool thing about using the PIC is that I
> >>can set it to "scan" every so often as well.
> >>
> >>I am thinking of mounting cams on the following locations. Co-pilot
> >>side bottom winglet (180 degree pan), under nose looking forward-down,
> >>overhead duct capturing panel.
> >>
> >>For supplies of LCD panels, Earth Computing (www.earthlcd.com) usually
> >>has some good selection of them. You can also scour some of the surplus
> >>electronics outlet and get a fairly good deal if you are not particular
> >>about specific device you are looking for.
> >>
> >>Hiroo
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: reflector-admin@tvbf.org [mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On
> >>Behalf Of Pat Shea
> >>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:23 AM
> >>To: reflector@tvbf.org
> >>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection
> >>
> >>Hiroo,
> >>
> >>I'm leaning towards keeping the small CCD cams in the
> >>engine compartment primarily for fire detection. It
> >>looks like it's going to take two to get full coverage
> >>of the critical areas. There may also be some benefit,
> >>at least during the tweaking stage, of being able to
> >>see/record what's going on inside the cowl during
> >>flight (tuft testing?). Two cams either means an A/B
> >>switch, two monitors, or a split screen. I was able to
> >>find a company that sells a color, waterproof,
> >>"helmet" cam w/ a cool aluminum protective mount:
> >>www.helmetcamera.com. I haven't had a chance to look
> >>at LCD monitors yet (or the ability to split the
> >>screen) - any leads on a good source for these??
> >>
> >>Pat
> >>
> >>--- Hiroo Umeno <humeno@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>One idea may be to install the "wingtip cam". I
> >>>have been researching
> >>>this but one could install a small CCD camera on the
> >>>wingtip (perhaps on
> >>>the lower winglet) that can be panned. Not only it
> >>>would offer a way to
> >>>"see" if your cowl is blowing smoke / fire but it
> >>>will also serve as
> >>>"rear-view mirror" when starting engine, and offer a
> >>>feed for your
> >>>in-flight footage.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The cameras can be had for less than $100 these
> >>>days, and a small LCD
> >>>monitors can be had for about the same.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Hiroo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>__________________________________
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> >>http://sbc.yahoo.com
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>To change your email address, visit
> >>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >>
> >>Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>To change your email address, visit
> >
> > http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> >>Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
> >
> > Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> To change your email address, visit http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector
>
> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose
---------------------------------
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<DIV>OOOpps...I apologize for that folks! Used to e-mailing the ol' folks back home......Jeff Clough<BR><BR><B><I>Greg Poole <gpoole@zeta.org.au></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%">
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<DIV><FONT color=#800000>Hey Jeff,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000>Can you stop "yelling"? ...the big bold type posts are not that easy to scan compared to the usual.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000>Well - somebody had to say it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#800000>Greg in Sydney.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jclough@alaska.net href="mailto:jclough@alaska.net">Jeffrey Clough</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=reflector@tvbf.org href="mailto:reflector@tvbf.org">reflector@tvbf.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 18, 2003 5:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>I agree! I think we were just 'what if-ing' a <U>SIMPLE</U> fail safe way to <U>rule out</U> a false positive due to the points you mention...I certainly do not want to add a MORE complex system to monitor the original/simpler system of thermal fuses (which I plan to have). I certainly do not have the answer yet!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>----- Original Message ----- </FONT></STRONG>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>From: "Scott Derrick" <</FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:scott@tnstaafl.net"><STRONG><FONT size=4>scott@tnstaafl.net</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>To: <</FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:reflector@tvbf.org"><STRONG><FONT size=4>reflector@tvbf.org</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 9:10 PM</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>Subject: Re: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection</FONT></STRONG></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><BR><FONT size=4></FONT></STRONG></DIV><STRONG><FONT size=4>> I wonder about fire detection equipment.<BR>> <BR>> You don't want false positives, that could be as bad or worse than a <BR>> real fire. If I thought I was on fire I'm throwing the gear out, the <BR>> speed brake, at cruise speed, pulling the engine back to idle and shock <BR>> cooling that mother on the way down at one knot under VNE! TO find out <BR>> later that you put your gear doors through the prop and then landed off <BR>> field and removed the rest of the gear because of a false alarm... not good.<BR>> <BR>> I keep hearing ideas about multiple sensors, multiple cameras, MUX boxes <BR>> and what not. My cynical nature says "Boy these folks have never owned <BR>> and maintained a flying airplane before." It takes a major amount of <BR>> time and money to keep a standard radio stack alive and well, now you <BR>> want to add more?<BR>>
<BR>> I realize that an engine fire is not as apparent in a pusher, but <BR>> exactly how many airplanes have gone down because of a fire where people <BR>> died? Would money and time be better spent on really clean and secure <BR>> engine installations?<BR>> <BR>> Scott<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Fred Marconi wrote:<BR>> > SOME TYPE OF TEMPERATURE MEASURING DEVICE WOULD BE THE SIMPLEST WITH A<BR>> > WARNING SIGNAL WHEN THE TEMPERATURE GETS ABOVE A CERTAIN LEVEL. at THAT<BR>> > POINT NO QUESTIONS ASKED CONSIDER THE HIGH TEMPERATURE A SIGN OF FIRE AND<BR>> > LAND.<BR>> > <BR>> > FRED<BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Hiroo Umeno" <</FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:humeno@microsoft.com"><STRONG><FONT size=4>humeno@microsoft.com</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>><BR>> > To: <</FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:reflector@tvbf.org"><STRONG><FONT
size=4>reflector@tvbf.org</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>><BR>> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 2:45 PM<BR>> > Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >>Pat,<BR>> >><BR>> >>CCDs are quite vulnerable to heat. You need to look at the data sheets<BR>> >>for the operating temperature range. The heat inside the engine<BR>> >>compartment is likely to far exceed the allowable heat rating of most<BR>> >>low-cost CCDs.<BR>> >><BR>> >>As for switcher, I am currently designing a 4:1 video mux based on<BR>> >>LT1204 device and a PIC. I am intending to put this in the same housing<BR>> >>with the LCD so that there are four buttons that corresponds to each<BR>> >>cams I can switch through. The cool thing about using the PIC is that I<BR>> >>can set it to "scan" every so often as
well.<BR>> >><BR>> >>I am thinking of mounting cams on the following locations. Co-pilot<BR>> >>side bottom winglet (180 degree pan), under nose looking forward-down,<BR>> >>overhead duct capturing panel.<BR>> >><BR>> >>For supplies of LCD panels, Earth Computing (</FONT></STRONG><A href="http://www.earthlcd.com/"><STRONG><FONT size=4>www.earthlcd.com</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>) usually<BR>> >>has some good selection of them. You can also scour some of the surplus<BR>> >>electronics outlet and get a fairly good deal if you are not particular<BR>> >>about specific device you are looking for.<BR>> >><BR>> >>Hiroo<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >>-----Original Message-----<BR>> >>From: </FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org"><STRONG><FONT size=4>reflector-admin@tvbf.org</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>
[mailto:reflector-admin@tvbf.org] On<BR>> >>Behalf Of Pat Shea<BR>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:23 AM<BR>> >>To: </FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:reflector@tvbf.org"><STRONG><FONT size=4>reflector@tvbf.org</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT size=4>> >>Subject: RE: REFLECTOR:Secondary fire detection<BR>> >><BR>> >>Hiroo,<BR>> >><BR>> >>I'm leaning towards keeping the small CCD cams in the<BR>> >>engine compartment primarily for fire detection. It<BR>> >>looks like it's going to take two to get full coverage<BR>> >>of the critical areas. There may also be some benefit,<BR>> >>at least during the tweaking stage, of being able to<BR>> >>see/record what's going on inside the cowl during<BR>> >>flight (tuft testing?). Two cams either means an A/B<BR>> >>switch, two monitors, or a split screen. I was able to<BR>> >>find a company that sells
a color, waterproof,<BR>> >>"helmet" cam w/ a cool aluminum protective mount:<BR>> >>www.helmetcamera.com. I haven't had a chance to look<BR>> >>at LCD monitors yet (or the ability to split the<BR>> >>screen) - any leads on a good source for these??<BR>> >><BR>> >>Pat<BR>> >><BR>> >>--- Hiroo Umeno <</FONT></STRONG><A href="mailto:humeno@microsoft.com"><STRONG><FONT size=4>humeno@microsoft.com</FONT></STRONG></A><STRONG><FONT size=4>> wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> >>>One idea may be to install the "wingtip cam". I<BR>> >>>have been researching<BR>> >>>this but one could install a small CCD camera on the<BR>> >>>wingtip (perhaps on<BR>> >>>the lower winglet) that can be panned. Not only it<BR>> >>>would offer a way to<BR>> >>>"see" if your cowl is blowing smoke / fire but it<BR>> >>>will also serve
as<BR>> >>>"rear-view mirror" when starting engine, and offer a<BR>> >>>feed for your<BR>> >>>in-flight footage.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>>The cameras can be had for less than $100 these<BR>> >>>days, and a small LCD<BR>> >>>monitors can be had for about the same.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>><BR>> >>>Hiroo<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >>__________________________________<BR>> >>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> >>SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!<BR>> >>http://sbc.yahoo.com<BR>> >>_______________________________________________<BR>> >>To change your email address, visit<BR>> >>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector<BR>> >><BR>> >>Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose<BR>> >><BR>>
>>_______________________________________________<BR>> >>To change your email address, visit<BR>> > <BR>> > </FONT></STRONG><A href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector"><STRONG><FONT size=4>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT size=4>> > <BR>> >>Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose<BR>> >><BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > To change your email address, visit </FONT></STRONG><A href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector"><STRONG><FONT size=4>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT size=4>> > <BR>> > Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose<BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> To change your email address, visit </FONT></STRONG><A
href="http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector"><STRONG><FONT size=4>http://www.tvbf.org/mailman/listinfo/reflector</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><STRONG><FONT size=4>> <BR>> Visit the gallery! tvbf:jamaicangoose</FONT></STRONG> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
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